Big pulls with Dark Knight.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Paladins can; DRK's can't.

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By now, after all your explanations, this statement bugs me the most. You say "baww, I'm just sayin' how OP PLD is with their """""flexibility,"""""" to somehow point out there exists a discrepancy among all tanks-- yet every time it's a thinly veiled complaint about DRK. You don't say "Paladins can; all the others can't," it's specifically directed at DRK each and every time. Are you trying to insult the reader's intelligence?

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Originally Posted by Hierro

By now, after all your explanations, this statement bugs me the most. You say "baww, I'm just sayin' how OP PLD is with their """""flexibility,"""""" to somehow point out there exists a discrepancy among all tanks-- yet every time it's a thinly veiled complaint about DRK. You don't say "Paladins can; all the others can't," it's specifically directed at DRK each and every time. Are you trying to insult the reader's intelligence?

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Eh. Warrior gets pretty close. Ain't nobody shrugging off big groups like warrior.

Gunbreaker gets !@#%ing demo'd.

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Originally Posted by GucciSan

Healers healing through anything is really the point of them being healers. That's pretty much what they're designed to do.

But it's important that each Job have their respective reason for playing them. PLD has Clemency, and DRK has TBN. It's very obvious from this thread that you clearly like PLD more than DRK because it has Clemency. A spammable self-sustain is what PLD is known for and if every tank had something similar then PLD wouldn't be that special anymore.

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If being able to heal through anything is the point of healers, then being able to tank through anything would sensibly be the point of tanking.

TBN is part of DRK's general purpose kit; in fact it's the majority of DRK's kit. Paladin's general purpose kit has enough tools to be balanced against TBN. Clemency basically exists outside of that; it's an OPTION to sacrifice your damage to make yourself nigh unkillable. No other tank has an equivalent option.

As mentioned earlier; it's like taking a bunch of DPS classes, balancing their output and just randomly giving Summoner the ability to rez. Sure, Summoner burns GCD and a ton of Mana to do it so it's not "optimal," but it's still ridiculous to give a great utility to 1 DPS class and give the rest nothing to balance it out. Now of course if I made that point you'd all be saying "ZOMG!! RES IS TOTAL DPS LOSS!! NOT OPTIMAL!! UR BAD SUMMNER!! LRN2PLAYNOOB!!"

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Originally Posted by Hierro

By now, after all your explanations, this statement bugs me the most. You say "baww, I'm just sayin' how OP PLD is with their """""flexibility,"""""" to somehow point out there exists a discrepancy among all tanks-- yet every time it's a thinly veiled complaint about DRK. You don't say "Paladins can; all the others can't," it's specifically directed at DRK each and every time. Are you trying to insult the reader's intelligence?

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DRK is just the only other tank I've really played. I'm sure I'd have the same opinion of the rest if I had actual experience with them.

Dunno what to say. I get back huge amounts of HP from Abyssal Drain on large pulls. One of my favorite skills.

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Originally Posted by Goji1639

Paladins having the option to weather worst case scenarios by sacrificing damage is something I feel like all tanks should have though. It's kind of absurd to just give it to Paladins.

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What bugs me is that you keep talking like Paladin gets the emergency sustain of clemency for free with no downside whatsoever, which just isn't true. If you don't use Clemency (which is the ideal scenario, given the dps loss) Paladin has the worst defense out of all the tank jobs. Still enough to survive everything in this game but lower than the other tanks.

You want all the tanks to have emergency sustain like Paladin? Sure, but it would be balanced out by nerfing their general sustain to Paladin levels. Is that really a good change?

They shouln't never balance anything with players playing bad, clemency it's already bad at it is and no other tanks should waste skill slots like that, if PLD are ok with having such tool then good for them but the rest of the tanks should be stay away from this specialy since the only scenario where clemency can "shine" can be easily avoided and solved by getting better, there is no need to modify theyr kits to allow mediocrity and a wipe or a thousan of then are necesary to players learn they are doing it wrong.

Abyssal Drain in SB only "shined" against pack of mobs, now we use it for single target too, does it make it better?

Well im more fond of feeling like an inmortal in a dumb wall to wall pull of a casual dungeon in SB than been able to use it every 1 min against whatever ex/savage boss now in Shb.

I dont think Clemency is a waste of space, because those turn the tables moments ( at least for me) are more memorable than my 56th perfect run of Innocence for the doggy.

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Originally Posted by Apdemic

What bugs me is that you keep talking like Paladin gets the emergency sustain of clemency for free with no downside whatsoever, which just isn't true. If you don't use Clemency (which is the ideal scenario, given the dps loss) Paladin has the worst defense out of all the tank jobs. Still enough to survive everything in this game but lower than the other tanks.

You want all the tanks to have emergency sustain like Paladin? Sure, but it would be balanced out by nerfing their general sustain to Paladin levels. Is that really a good change?

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I don't see how Paladin has the worst defense outside of Clemency, but I'm glad to finally be getting responses that address the actual topic instead of just pointlessly flexing.

Take Clemency out of the equation and, at least compared to DRK; Paladin still has better passive mitigation, the best Invulnerability in the game (compared to DRK having the worst) and Sheltron you can basically spam with no downside that always lasts it's full duration (while TBN is a potential DPS loss where your shield might get popped in 2 seconds). DRK basically only has TBN, which is obviously great, some very negligible passive self healing and AD which is only really useful on big pulls. I'd say it balances out pretty well. Clemency is basically a bonus.

I'm not as familiar with the other 2 tanking classes, but from what I've gathered GNB is considered to have the worst defense of all the tanks.

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Originally Posted by shao32

They shouln't never balance anything with players playing bad, clemency it's already bad at it is and no other tanks should waste skill slots like that, if PLD are ok with having such tool then good for them but the rest of the tanks should be stay away from this specialy since the only scenario where clemency can "shine" can be easily avoided and solved by getting better, there is no need to modify theyr kits to allow mediocrity and a wipe or a thousan of then are necesary to players learn they are doing it wrong.

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I mean, by this logic you may as well take away all healers GCD heals and just let the group wipe if a healer can't keep it alive by weaving it's OCD heals into it's optimal DPS rotation. Why let healers constantly protect bad groups from their failures?

I think having the option to counterbalance healing/tanking and DPS output based on your groups capabilities makes both roles more engaging, and feels more dynamic.