For a lot of early wow wasn't the issue more that tanks didn't have good aoe threat rather than tanks not being able to survive multiple mobs? I know as early as BC having paladin tanks aoe in heroic dungeons was common practice, and in WOTLK dungeons only got easier with less CC used. The most i remember CC being used in dungeons was during vanilla, and by WOTLK it seemed to have mostly died out in dungeons. From what I remember anyway, it's been years.
-
02-26-2020, 12:43 AMBright-Flower
-
02-26-2020, 01:26 AMEdaxJust because I don’t play in traffic doesn’t mean I follow Confucianism. Self preservation is a natural instinct, not an ideology.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasarayu
-
02-26-2020, 01:37 AMKaliseIt was a number of things. Between annoying enemies (I.e. Casters standing 15 miles away ready to pyroblast the healer out of nowhere), high damage, threat issues (Since early WoW was when waiting for 3 Sundering Armour stacks before attacking was a thing) and of course the fact that back then not every DPS even HAD an AoE attack (Rogues, Shamans, Shadow Priest, Retadin (Since Consecration worked of Spell Power until WotLK which only Holy and Prot stacked) didn't have AoE's at all. While classes like Druid and Warrior had significant CD's on their AoE skills).Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright-Flower
Ironically, the lack of good AoE for most classes persisted throughout many expansions, with often Tanks being the highest DPS when it came to AoE situations thanks to always having good AoE kits in order to be able to obtain aggro of packs of trash/adds. -
02-26-2020, 01:40 AMZsplash
FFXIV's biggest change since release is removing TP. lol, and it's most experimental is a tie between positional weapon skills and healers that spend more time dpsing than healing.
God knows why they didn't toss positionals out already, no one likes them as far as I can tell and they've basically eliminated them from every other job now. -
02-26-2020, 01:41 AMNephisto
In WoW, I like exploring the world maps, but I don't like the dungeons. In FFXIV, I like the dungeons/trials/raids, but dislike exploring the world maps. I mean, in the world maps in FFXIV, you just have to pass through everything with your Chocobo. There is no feeling of danger or exploring. Surely SE can do something about that!
-
02-26-2020, 01:48 AMAlaeacus
Anathema is a noun, thus used improperly in your subject line. Were you just looking for a chance to use this word after finding it at dictionary.com? The word you probably wanted to use was "anathematic".
In the spirit of discussion, if FF14 added gear improvement via RNG items that might break your gear (similar to Black Desert or ArchAge), I would unsubscribe and leave the game permanently. -
02-26-2020, 02:00 AMAllegor
Non lineal dungeons. ARR dungeons were kinda like this, where they were more like an instanced zone where you have a path but still relatively free to go where you want, whereas newer dungeons are literally hallways. They're designed to be zerged because the devs know people just rush and pull everything on sight anyways. God forbid they add something like a jumping puzzle, or step on the right tiles, ride this NPC, or any other unorthodox mechanic
-
02-26-2020, 02:14 AMKalisePositional weapons skills are "Experimental" now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zsplash
They've been part and parcel to MMO's for literally ever (Even before that, it has been an RPG staple all the way back to PnP games like D&D). Usually in the form of a Rogue using backstabs/ambushes or other nastiness that requires them to be behind their target.
From what I gather, positionals are only disliked when dumb boss design incorporates the inability to actually utilize positionals and thus cause a reliance on True North in order to achieve full DPS (Which is barely higher, if at all, than what Caster/rDPS can pump out without requiring any positioning at all not even a "Melee range" one) -
02-26-2020, 02:46 AMZsplashIt is, the only positional that exists in any other mmo is attacking from behind. And on one job and usually maybe 1-2 skills and it's always the thief/rogue type class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalise
Ffxiv utilizes sides as well as back, and at one point I think it also utilized front in 1.0. It was actually at one point even more experimental in 1.0 where these positionals were required to continue the weaponskill combo at all. If you didn't land it, you didn't get the next weaponskill to light up.
But really, it's half-joke half-seriousness and it slid over your head. The joke being that this game doesn't really experiment and they spend 100% of their time playing it safe. That they added "side" positional, is their most "experimental" mechanic, monk needs to rotate between sides and backs and it's just a ridiculous class in general that it seems like a lot of people avoid for that reason. -
02-26-2020, 03:47 AMKaliseActually, front and sides are also used in other games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zsplash
For example Gouge in WoW used to be front only.
Everquest 2 has things like Masked Strike which is from the side.
1-2 skills? Naw... Astellia Online's Assassin has most of their skills with bonus from rear. Everquest 2's entire scout line sans Beastlord has positional skills (Troubador, Dirge, Ranger, Assassin, Swashbuckler, Brigand), in DDO Ninja Spy, Deepwood Stalker and any Rogue past lives gains positional bonus damage on all attacks etc.
Monk's problem is how SE can't decide if Monk's are supposed to keep their Greased Lightning up and get the bonus damage and SkS, or if they're supposed to dump it regularly by using Tornado Kick. Whether they're supposed to be using Fists of Fire for 10% bonus damage or Fists of Wind for the 4th stack of Greased Lightning.Quote:
monk needs to rotate between sides and backs and it's just a ridiculous class in general that it seems like a lot of people avoid for that reason.
DRG, NIN and SAM all also have to rotate between sides and back, but they don't have a problem being played.