Duty Finder Roulette Etiquette

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

I can agree that "you spank it, you tank it" is bad - but I can't agree with pulling the boss as a DPS.

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As a healer, dps pulling boss is the last thing I want to see
They are squishy, I need work three times as hard to keep them alive, and they run around like a headless chicken when they take a bit of dmg from boss, and by doing so positioning the boss in terrible way and cleaving everyone in party and making tank have to chase it back

Dropping a buff on dps will slow thing down but making boss fight into a mess will making it worse

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Originally Posted by Laphael

Tanks pulling at a reasonable pace for the Party and not throwing a tantrum if a dps pulls a boss to maintain its buff.

And "You spank it, you tank it" is bad and outdated.

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no its not, it just is not the sole rule with pulls anymore.

I very much let a dps die in ravel, why? because i was out of cds to do a second big pull after the 1st (hlr had trouble) so while waiting for resources to come back i decided 1 small pull then pull the rest, a dps didn't like this pulled 2 sets of mobs i started single targeting told hlr to focus me if they go after them i will then pick them up , after being told just grab them, i rightfully said i purposely pulled 1 set of mobs because i had no cds, hlr had low mp so a big pull was not happening just because dmg is there does not mean everything else is ready.

my rules for pulling are thus:
-Tank -> Hlr -> Dps decides a big pull in that order. a tank that knows that can't handle them is just going to be dead thus you will too, hlr that can't handle it will bring great death to the party, dps that can't handle it may lead to death, dps are the bottom of this totem poll for a reason so long as tank and hlr can handle big pulls they tend to go fine
-Everyone in Boss arena your ready so pull
-Ignore the 1st 2 You pull it you tank it till you die then i'll pick it up preventing the other people from being pseudo tanks.

Most good tanks know when it is ok to pull big and when not to, people usually are not wanting to stress other people out if they can help it and no cds tanks doing big pulls will do that for you as a hlr even worse when a random dps decides hey lets bring more to chomp on our bones >_>

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Originally Posted by Laphael

Tanks pulling at a reasonable pace for the Party and not throwing a tantrum if a dps pulls a boss to maintain its buff.

And "You spank it, you tank it" is bad and outdated.

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If you can't wait for the team to be ready, you can tank what you pull. That's neither bad nor outdated.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

One could argue that, but it would be false argument. The tank is fulfilling their role by tanking. If the DPS are pulling, they are not following their role, and thus are not being a team player. Accidental pulls, I'll grab the adds. If I see DPS or Healer intentionally run ahead and pull, I will switch to single target and let the adds kill whoever pulled. Don't pull for me unless I know you. Ask me politely to pull more and I'll be glad to. But if you try to do my job for me, you get to try and fail at it.

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See, this is precisely where you come across less of a team player. The DPS or healer aren't trying to sabotage the run but simply make it go faster. Even if they shouldn't necessarily run off and pull, you can tell them afterwards not to. By deliberately switching to single targeting, you're not only slowing down the run but simply being petty. In this instance, you've caused more problems than anyone else.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

See, this is precisely where you come across less of a team player. The DPS or healer aren't trying to sabotage the run but simply make it go faster.

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That's exactly what they're doing, regardless if that's their intent. That doesn't make me less of a team player. You're trying to paint me as the bad guy because I expect the team to work as a team.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Even if they shouldn't necessarily run off and pull, you can tell them afterwards not to. By deliberately switching to single targeting, you're not only slowing down the run but simply being petty. In this instance, you've caused more problems than anyone else.

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Why should it be necessary for me to explain to someone that they shouldn't be doing something they aren't supposed to be doing?

And if they weren't doing something they shouldn't be doing, there wouldn't be more problems. You seem to have this need to blame the wrong people. You don't blame the police for the crime when they arrest the criminal.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

That's exactly what they're doing, regardless if that's their intent. That doesn't make me less of a team player. You're trying to paint me as the bad guy because I expect the team to work as a team.

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It does when you sink to single-targeting mobs and letting them kill the person who pulled them. I get annoyed when people pull for me as well, and I usually tell them to stop. But I don’t sink down to petty levels of “well, I’m going to let them die now”. Because that’s the exact opposite of being a team player. And, not to mention, it just creates more work for the healer because they have to Raise the dead player now, and Raises can be costly. As someone who heals quite a bit, this kind of behavior gets really annoying.

Why sink below when you can just rise above (and later dismiss them if it really becomes that big of a problem).

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Originally Posted by CazzT

Why should it be necessary for me to explain to someone that they shouldn't be doing something they aren't supposed to be doing?

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To try and avoid future instances of the behavior in the dungeon? To provide a semblance of effort at communication and cooperation?

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Originally Posted by CazzT

That's exactly what they're doing, regardless if that's their intent. That doesn't make me less of a team player. You're trying to paint me as the bad guy because I expect the team to work as a team.

Why should it be necessary for me to explain to someone that they shouldn't be doing something they aren't supposed to be doing?

And if they weren't doing something they shouldn't be doing, there wouldn't be more problems. You seem to have this need to blame the wrong people. You don't blame the police for the crime when they arrest the criminal.

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I hope your shoulder isn't too hurt given how far you had to reach for that, simply put, horrendous analogy. Seriously. You are likening someone else pulling a couple mobs to a crime. Okay. Allow me to use your own analogy. Since you said you would purposely single target mobs to ensure the DPS or healer dies. The equivalent here would be the police beating someone or allowing them to be beaten up to "teach them a lesson." Last I checked, that's frowned on in society.

Putting aside ridiculous poor analogies, you are, again, trying to inflate the situation. A DPS or healer pulling extra cannot sabotage the run... unless you allow it. In fact, if it's the healer pulling and you let them die. Well, you and you alone guaranteed a wipe. Or do you make an exception if a healer pulls? If you do... now you're applying a double standard. Regardless of how you spin it, letting someone die as a petty "gotcha!" just puts more work on everyone else. Which is why I suggested telling them not to first.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

It does when you sink to single-targeting mobs and letting them kill the person who pulled them. I get annoyed when people pull for me as well, and I usually tell them to stop. But I don’t sink down to petty levels of “well, I’m going to let them die now”. Because that’s the exact opposite of being a team player. And, not to mention, it just creates more work for the healer because they have to Raise the dead player now, and Raises can be costly. As someone who heals quite a bit, this kind of behavior gets really annoying.

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It's not. Period. This has been explained ad nauseum by multiple people. I'm tired of arguing. If you need to make me out as the villain, that's on you.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Why sink below when you can just rise above (and later dismiss them if it really becomes that big of a problem).

To try and avoid future instances of the behavior in the dungeon? To provide a semblance of effort at communication and cooperation?

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It's not sinking below anything. There's nothing to rise above. If you have a team and people on that team are not doing what they're supposed to be doing, why are you expecting the rest of the team to fix the problems caused by the person who screwed up? Who is the person in the wrong here? You're going to say I am, if not both. But that's wrong. I am not to blame because they screwed up, no matter what my reaction to their screw up is. By painting me as the bad guy, you're defending the screw up of the person who didn't do their job. And that's wrong.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

I hope your shoulder isn't too hurt given how far you had to reach for that, simply put, horrendous analogy. Seriously. You are likening someone else pulling a couple mobs to a crime. Okay. Allow me to use your own analogy. Since you said you would purposely single target mobs to ensure the DPS or healer dies. The equivalent here would be the police beating someone or allowing them to be beaten up to "teach them a lesson." Last I checked, that's frowned on in society.

Putting aside ridiculous poor analogies, you are, again, trying to inflate the situation. A DPS or healer pulling extra cannot sabotage the run... unless you allow it. In fact, if it's the healer pulling and you let them die. Well, you and you alone guaranteed a wipe. Or do you make an exception if a healer pulls? If you do... now you're applying a double standard. Regardless of how you spin it, letting someone die as a petty "gotcha!" just puts more work on everyone else. Which is why I suggested telling them not to first.

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I learned three things from this post.

1 - You don't know how analogies work.
2 - You haven't been reading what I've written.
3 - You want to defend the person screwing up.

Due this, there is no point in replying to you further. I have clearly explained everything. At this point, we're going in circles and we will get nowhere. You're eager to paint me as the bad guy and defend the person who isn't doing their job right. I get the feeling you're one of the people who does that.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

I learned three things from this post.

1 - You don't know how analogies work.
2 - You haven't been reading what I've written.
3 - You want to defend the person screwing up.

Due this, there is no point in replying to you further. I have clearly explained everything. At this point, we're going in circles and we will get nowhere. You're eager to paint me as the bad guy and defend the person who isn't doing their job right. I get the feeling you're one of the people who does that.

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I understand analogies just fine. Yours was simply bad.

And, no. I would to chastise both of you for causing unnecessary drama all because you wanted to teach someone a lesson. That is the very definition of being petty. I get it, you're annoyed but at least owe the fact you're also in the wrong. Being a team player also involves trying to diffuse a situation. Asking the DPS or Healer not to pull for you takes far less effort than purposely causing a wipe or giving the healer additional work. I am "painting" you as the "bad guy" because you're making things worse for no one's benefit but your own smug pettiness. Not exactly a team player.

Create macro:

/party Hello party! Your friendly neighborhood tank here. I will be trying to pull as much as I possibly can this run. DPS, feel free to pull more mobs if you want, just please bring them to me and try not to sacrifice your own potential damage to do so. If at anytime anyone wants to take it a bit slower, please let me know and I'll accommodate. Feel free to ask me any questions or to explain the mechanics. Let's have a quick, clean run!

Press macro button at beginning of dungeons.

There you go. Establish expectations at the beginning and ruin the potential of DPS trying to troll since you took away that power by specifically asking them to do a thing.

I personally haven't had any problems in any groups I've been in. I typically heal, though, so I'm sure if I spent as much time tanking as I did healing, I'd run into some shenanigans.