SHB BLM is the peak of this game's job design

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

All I'm saying is, every job should have an option to self-sustain while leveling or soloing, even BLM. And as luck would have it, most jobs already do, BLM being a major exception.

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Funny, I don't recall having any issues levelling BLM... DRG, MNK and BRD on the other hand :/ (But that was a few expansions ago).

The one area I will say BLM can have some issues is soloing B ranks at the start of an expansion without a Chocobo... but that is only relative to doing it with a Tank or Healer, and Chocobo’s are a thing, as are other players, as is getting better gear (as the expansion progresses).

And yes I will say "Well why don't you go play something else" because other jobs do exist, and you are free to swith to them; i.e. if you can't deal with / work around BLMs 'lack' of self-sustain then sorry but maybe BLM isn't the job you are looking for.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

This entire post was brilliant. One thing caught my eye here, and maybe you higher level players have a reason for it, I typically tend to cast T3 in the opener before B4. I figure it's gotta be better to get that DoT ticking sooner rather than later (although with current timers, may be slightly irrelevant). I suppose maybe it's an MP issue; cheaper spell leading into AF for... actually, I suppose you would need that exact setup for Despair, don't you? The way I've been doing it usually ends at 700 MP, short of the 800 minimum I assume Despair needs. That's damn good to know before I even get started into 5.0.
I also tend to try weaving Leylines in after the first F3 rather than before, figuring the potency as you swap isn't super, and maybe better to have LL up as long as possible after that initial establishment. Again, may not super matter, I'm supposing, though I have a hunch that your rotation has much less risk of clipping/animation lock.

Should also probably really work on adding in Sharpcast and Triple Cast to my muscle memory. I know they're doing me no good just sitting there, but I'm also not hardcore enough to be too worried about eking out that last little boost.

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Only reason I do it in that order is because it's smoother to weave (I live in AUS, so dealing with a high ping) and I need Enochian up as soon a possible (the timing on the first Xenoglossy is fairly tight)... usually though, yes, I end my UI phase on a 0 MP cost spell (such as B4, a Thundercloud proc, or Foul for AoE). That said Thunder 3 is only 400 MP, so you should end up on 800MP (the minimum for Despair) even if you don't get another MP tick (i.e. entering AF with 9600 MP).

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

Ah, riveting: No less than 3 "Well why don't you go play something else" responses.
You can already tell this is gonna be a productive discussion.

All I'm saying is, every job should have an option to self-sustain while leveling or soloing, even BLM. And as luck would have it, most jobs already do, BLM being a major exception.

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It doesn't lack for such an option, though. It has the single strongest self-sustain ability of any non-tank. BLM is one of my easier jobs to level partly for that reason (most stuff dying before it's had a chance to auto me more than a couple times being the other).

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

So why does SAM have Third Eye (and associated heal), Second Wind, AND Bloodbath? 1 mitigation and three healing skills on the #2 DPS in the game when BLM only gets a 30% HP shield every two minutes?

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Why does BRD only get Second Wind despite having much lower DPS, is it really expected to kite? But wait, MCH has higher DPS than BRD, how is that fair? And what about DNC, they can kite just as well but also have an extra heal and a dash, with charges... totally OP.

And if we are really being pedantic BLM also has AoE Sleep, which is pretty damn powerful if you are worried about solo survival (i.e. BB, SW, TE, and anything short of Vercure aren't going make up for being beat on by a 2nd, 3rd or 4th mob). Where is SAMs (or any other classes) CC option?

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

So why does SAM have Third Eye (and associated heal), Second Wind, AND Bloodbath? 1 mitigation and three healing skills on the #2 DPS in the game when BLM only gets a 30% HP shield every two minutes?

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Lol #2 dps in the game.

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Originally Posted by Casino

Just a thing, You can't begin an Ice opening with triple cast, because you are supposed to pre-cast B3 before the pull. Use it for taking position after F3.

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You are correct sir, in terms of burst DPS, the issue I have is clipping (go AUS); i.e. using Triple Cast at the start means no clipping, and being able to position early, which just feels smoother to me. It's also a smoother re-opener (in my experience) in case, you know, stuff happens.

I've always found BLM AoE to be a bit clunky, compared to it's almost flawless single target rotation, but now I'm questioning the best AoE rotation.

With Freeze giving you an Umbral Heart, is it worth bothering with Fire II at all?
It's either Freeze > B4 > F3 > F2 > F2 > Flare etc.
Or it's Freeze > F3 > Straight into Flare.

Is it worth cutting out the Fire II's for faster Flare output?

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

I've always found BLM AoE to be a bit clunky, compared to it's almost flawless single target rotation, but now I'm questioning the best AoE rotation.

With Freeze giving you an Umbral Heart, is it worth bothering with Fire II at all?
It's either Freeze > B4 > F3 > F2 > F2 > Flare etc.
Or it's Freeze > F3 > Straight into Flare.

Is it worth cutting out the Fire II's for faster Flare output?

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The Lv80 BLM AoE rotation is: Freeze - T4 - (F3, optional) - Flare - Flare - repeat, cast procs and Foul as they come up

Mix in Sharpcast T4, Manafont, Ley Lines, Triplecast on cooldown. It's anything but clunky.

You do not use F2 past Lv68.

As has been pointed out in this and other threads, Fire 2 was never an optimal solution. Calculating potency/time, you were always, always better off getting more Flares out faster.

The only thing Freeze has changed is shortening that ice phase. So it will always be the second option you listed. Although, add in Thunder 4 after Freeze for good measure. It's pretty damned satisfying in a large enough pack that Thundercloud keeps procing over and over. Idunnno the maths on when/where you should fit those procs in with all the Flares and Freezes and Fouls, but things sure do seem to melt quick if you keep using them as you get them.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

is it worth bothering with Fire II at all?

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No it isn't, might as well unbind that spell.