Since Lore Suddenly Matters

also the problem i have with you as a person tho, is that you are a baby, lol baby got to have his toys...baby cant get disapointed, but lets be honest tho...just like this forum less than 1000 people who are still mad, let them and let them unsub...lol b/c the game will do fine without the fake outrage from a guy who wanted to be a erotic bunny boy with a subgligar :p btw its funny how people are over it and moved on...lol

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Nah, the Dev's didn't say anything about why no male Viera (Or female Hrothgar) until the clarification (Since the forums had exploded before they had even got back to the office after the Fan Fest)

So, amid the whole kerfuffle about this, people were merely speculating why the genderlocks had occurred. Some people stating "But muh loooore!", others saying that the original designer of Viera had control over their usage and said "No MALES! >:[", with a minor point being argued was lack of resources (The actual correct reason)



True. Though, the fact remains that due to how the FF universes are unique, it's not ALWAYS going to be the case that things like lore will be copied 100% from things that are ported nearly 100% accurately from other games.

It can certainly be an argument, but it's not the end-all-be-all of the matter, like people where presuming it was (Made even more hilarious when Yoshida then later straight up said that lore wasn't the reason for the genderlock xD)

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i honestly believe that he wasnt allowed to create bunny boys, the op kept repeating "this isnt matsuno's game wah wah" but viera and anything with ivalice is his and he has full authority of his ips, that being said...thats why i rather ronso male and female over viera female b/c i can be truthful about this reason why for the fake outrage and it sums up like this "i want to erp as a skimpy bunny boy, and ewww ronso they are soo ugly...doesnt fit my style" instead people are trying to fit their narrative by saying se promised no generlocking and if they did research....a 2013 article was mentioning female viera with a soon to be announced male counterpart....you had almost 10 years to whine about genderlocking...10 bloody years...the people who are mad just b/c of that article are just bloody crying for no reason and its a shame

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Originally Posted by kingskye

i honestly believe that he wasnt allowed to create bunny boys, the op kept repeating "this isnt matsuno's game wah wah" but viera and anything with ivalice is his and he has full authority of his ips

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Though, people contacted Matsuno and he confirmed that he had no part in this decision.

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Originally Posted by kingskye

instead people are trying to fit their narrative by saying se promised no generlocking and if they did research....a 2013 article was mentioning female viera with a soon to be announced male counterpart....you had almost 10 years to whine about genderlocking...10 bloody years...the people who are mad just b/c of that article are just bloody crying for no reason and its a shame

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Actually, when they released male Miqo'te and female Roe they did mention they wouldn't do genderlocking again.

Also, that one specific mention in 2013 was discussing creating Viera and then opting for a male counterpart instead of male Viera...

Then what we got was their decision to make Hrothgar and then decide to nix female Hrothgar to add in female Viera instead...

Like, they were going to just add Hrothger male and female. Then, due to wanting to target 2 different audiences simultaneously (That's their confirmed reasoning) they decided to try and split the difference and add in a new "Beastly" race (Hrothgar) with one gender and female Viera as both had been requested a lot, and due to one gender of each race it would take about the same amount of resources to develop as one full race.


Personally, I don't much care about Viera/Hrothgar since I'm always going to stick to being Miqo'te and unless we get more retainers for free I won't be creating any more of them. However, I do kind of wish that they had doubled down on making one full race with both genders now and saved the other race to add later with both genders (Such as with 6.0 release). That way they not only avoid tantrums like happened here with genderlocking, but also extend the hype train across 2 expansions where they get to show off their brand new race.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

... [T]he fact remains that due to how the FF universes are unique, it's not ALWAYS going to be the case that things like lore will be copied 100% from things that are ported nearly 100% accurately from other games.

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If they weren't literal carbon copies, from having the same culture to coming from the same area of the same geographic region... but there's absolutely nothing imaginative about XIV's Viera. Nothing. Besides being on Hydaelyn, they are literally the exact same Viera from XII. That their lore would be the same is... expected.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

However, I do kind of wish that they had doubled down on making one full race with both genders now and saved the other race to add later with both genders (Such as with 6.0 release). That way they not only avoid tantrums like happened here with genderlocking, but also extend the hype train across 2 expansions where they get to show off their brand new race.

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The reason they went the split route they did was because the work necessary to introduce a race doesn't stay the same - it's incrementally more taxing to introduce a new race as the game goes on due to having to make sure every piece of gear works properly with their model, which takes a lot of time (re: money) due to the high graphical quality of the game. That's why this is the last time they intend to introduce new races.

Sure, they could choose not to do [Hrothgar males / Viera females] now and just do a full [Viera / Hrothgar] suite... but if they did that, there's a far lesser chance of ever getting [Hrothgar / Viera]. It takes more resources to introduce a new race the further we go into the game, not the same amount it took for a previous one.

Considering that, overwhelming fan demand for the Viera, and their own desire to have some creative control over the game, I can't really fault the devs for taking the direction they did... even though I still don't agree with sex-exclusive races. Or the hissy fits people threw in response. (You can't control everything, but you can control how you react; the fact so many chose to throw temper tantrums over it is... disappointing.)

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Besides being on Hydaelyn, they are literally the exact same Viera from XII. That their lore would be the same is... expected.

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Expected, but nonetheless not guaranteed.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

The reason they went the split route they did was because the work necessary to introduce a race doesn't stay the same - it's incrementally more taxing to introduce a new race as the game goes on due to having to make sure every piece of gear works properly with their model, which takes a lot of time (re: money) due to the high graphical quality of the game. That's why this is the last time they intend to introduce new races.

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Technically, the overall work required stays the same irregardless of when a particular race is added.

If they introduced male Hrothgar and female Viera now and then in 6.0 added in female Hrothgar and male Viera it would require the same amount of work as adding in Hrothgar male + female now and Viera male and female in 6.0.

Since, the race(s) added in 5.0 will invariably need to have 6.0 gear designed for them too. Just like race(s) added in 6.0 will require all the items from 6.0 and prior to be designed for them.

The only difference is the pacing of this workload. The later you leave race implementation the more upfront work is required to backdate items for them. While earlier added races mean you work on the later stuff well... Later.

This split was done in order to use 1 race worth of development time, on 2 distinct races to appease 2 particular groups of people (Those that wanted Viera and those that wanted a "Beastly" race)

If they end up getting the green light (See: Resources) to add in the other genders of these 2 races, then by all accounts it would have been better to merely add one race at a time with both genders...

...Unless of course, this is all an elaborate ruse by Yoshida to use the inevitable pages upon pages of crying about genderlocks to then show the higher ups in SE that "We really need the resources to add in more races. THINK OF ALL THE FANTASIA SALES YO!"... Which, honestly, I could see being the case...

Inb4 this post gets deleted so the higher ups in SE don't figure out Yoshi's plans! xD

It is rather annoying that Yoshi thinks bunny boys are weird. I mean, there's such thing as male rabbits irl, and he DID wear a Bugs bunny shirt, and Bugs bunny is male! He could have designed male Viera off hares, who look less cute.

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Though, people contacted Matsuno and he confirmed that he had no part in this decision.



Actually, when they released male Miqo'te and female Roe they did mention they wouldn't do genderlocking again.

Also, that one specific mention in 2013 was discussing creating Viera and then opting for a male counterpart instead of male Viera...

Then what we got was their decision to make Hrothgar and then decide to nix female Hrothgar to add in female Viera instead...

Like, they were going to just add Hrothger male and female. Then, due to wanting to target 2 different audiences simultaneously (That's their confirmed reasoning) they decided to try and split the difference and add in a new "Beastly" race (Hrothgar) with one gender and female Viera as both had been requested a lot, and due to one gender of each race it would take about the same amount of resources to develop as one full race.


Personally, I don't much care about Viera/Hrothgar since I'm always going to stick to being Miqo'te and unless we get more retainers for free I won't be creating any more of them. However, I do kind of wish that they had doubled down on making one full race with both genders now and saved the other race to add later with both genders (Such as with 6.0 release). That way they not only avoid tantrums like happened here with genderlocking, but also extend the hype train across 2 expansions where they get to show off their brand new race.

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gotta find me that actual quote verbatim b/c a 2013 article stated he wanted female viera and a male counterpart, that was all the way back in 2013...if you can find that article cool but i need an official statment from square enix and naoki yoshida

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Originally Posted by Kalise

Expected, but nonetheless not guaranteed.



Technically, the overall work required stays the same irregardless of when a particular race is added.

If they introduced male Hrothgar and female Viera now and then in 6.0 added in female Hrothgar and male Viera it would require the same amount of work as adding in Hrothgar male + female now and Viera male and female in 6.0.

Since, the race(s) added in 5.0 will invariably need to have 6.0 gear designed for them too. Just like race(s) added in 6.0 will require all the items from 6.0 and prior to be designed for them.

The only difference is the pacing of this workload. The later you leave race implementation the more upfront work is required to backdate items for them. While earlier added races mean you work on the later stuff well... Later.

This split was done in order to use 1 race worth of development time, on 2 distinct races to appease 2 particular groups of people (Those that wanted Viera and those that wanted a "Beastly" race)

If they end up getting the green light (See: Resources) to add in the other genders of these 2 races, then by all accounts it would have been better to merely add one race at a time with both genders...

...Unless of course, this is all an elaborate ruse by Yoshida to use the inevitable pages upon pages of crying about genderlocks to then show the higher ups in SE that "We really need the resources to add in more races. THINK OF ALL THE FANTASIA SALES YO!"... Which, honestly, I could see being the case...

Inb4 this post gets deleted so the higher ups in SE don't figure out Yoshi's plans! xD

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i have to disagree on gear refitting would be easier on new races, when we went to hw, we had less than 2000 gear so it was easy to fit and outfit, now 2 xpac later we can say its doubled from 6000 - 8000 gear from your crappy tome gear that locks feet - to the cute glamor choices

also idk japan completely gave up on being disapointed with gender locking, its just this outrage community like the op whom run everytime things dont go their way

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

It is rather annoying that Yoshi thinks bunny boys are weird. I mean, there's such thing as male rabbits irl, and he DID wear a Bugs bunny shirt, and Bugs bunny is male! He could have designed male Viera off hares, who look less cute.

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What gets me is that the male viera concept art I've seen looks FINE. Also if they look a little like elezen who cares it's not like female viera don't somewhat resemble them as is.

Adding a new race (or rather PC character model) takes more work as the game goes on. Gear is fitted for and only for currently playable races; going back to refit old gear for new character models takes a lot of work. There's a difference between making a new piece of gear and fitting it for all the playable races, and going back through the gear catalog to fit pieces of equipment onto a character model they were never designed for.

That's why their options were A) Viera only, B) Hrothgar only, or C) One sex from both races. As it stands there is no guarantee Male Viera and / or Female Hrothgar will ever be implemented precisely because of the work it takes to put them in. If we take the devs' word for it and this is the last time new races (or character models, to be exact) are introduced, this was the best possible outcome with the resources they had available. There was no way to make everybody happy - either we get people whining about the lack of Viera, people whining about the lack of a more bestial race, or people whining about sex exclusive races.