How Do You Feel When Old Content Is Made Easier?

I don't mind old content getting easier. What I do mind are some of the things I see when running old content:

1.) People being impatient when clearly there are new people - e.g., running into the fight (this has been made both worse and better with the auto-teleport)
2.) People get upset when people die to mechanics INSTEAD of explaining mechanics
3.) People troll when I do try to explain and ask if Alliance A/B/C is going to do the mechanics (Cerberus - A adds, B belly, C chains)
3a.) People try to do mechanics and/or argue when they're doing it wrong (I'm looking at you fire/water puddles in Dun Scaith)

People's overall disregard for the fight is what sours running old content for me. And because I enjoyed the original difficulty and mechanics devs put into the fight when they were relevant, when it becomes outdated, I get nostalgic when we don't get to do it anymore (ie, Syrcus Tower, Glasya Labolas).

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

As for keeping old difficulty, people say they want hard stuff, but leave after the first wipe. FFXI had hard stuff, but they also had easier stuff or different stuff as an alternative. Here there really isn't alternatives to story mode or endgame mode. So if you make it hard, people are going to get roadblocked and have nowhere else to go.

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That isn't necessarily true. Generally speaking, people asking for casual content to be more difficult are not looking for something which will stomp their face in, but something that actually requires a pulse. Right now the overwhelming majority of content scarcely demands more than you to be awake, which is why when sudden difficulty spikes do occur, it throws people for a loop. I know you love arguing to the contrary, however I think it's pretty telling when a friend and I purposely only healed Phantom Train normal and I literally could have AFK'd to make a sandwich. I was that useless. Somehow, I think we can have difficulty above that without going overboard.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

That isn't necessarily true. Generally speaking, people asking for casual content to be more difficult are not looking for something which will stomp their face in, but something that actually requires a pulse. Right now the overwhelming majority of content scarcely demands more than you to be awake, which is why when sudden difficulty spikes do occur, it throws people for a loop. I know you love arguing to the contrary, however I think it's pretty telling when a friend and I purposely only healed Phantom Train normal and I literally could have AFK'd to make a sandwich. I was that useless. Somehow, I think we can have difficulty above that without going overboard.

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To second that:
Some content doesnt even need you to be awake, depending on your role...
When I'm really tired, I run content on my scholar. I've literally fallen asleep for 10-30 seconds during runs and it didnt matter in the slightest.

Once I "healed" a Halatali NM run for friends, again as scholar. I was afk for the whole thing except for the parts when you have to interact with the "teleporters". My fairy did quite fine by herself - and sure, I could have cast dps-spells and I usually do, but thats not so much better.
I went through Gubal NM earlier - throwing out one Adlo before each pull and then letting the fairy do her thing was enough, while I was spamming Broil...
Thats not hard stuff - thats braindead easy stuff.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

That isn't necessarily true. Generally speaking, people asking for casual content to be more difficult are not looking for something which will stomp their face in, but something that actually requires a pulse.

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Some people's "requires a pulse" is others "stomp your face in." remember, the endgame crowd thinks byakko ex is incredibly easy. Increasngly they thnk only the last two turns and utlimate are the only "hard" content in this game.

The dungeons are fine. They are easy, yes, but that means I can go in with a job i am rusty at to practice my full 70 kit again without worrying i will wipe the run.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

Some people's "requires a pulse" is others "stomp your face in." remember, the endgame crowd thinks byakko ex is incredibly easy. Increasngly they thnk only the last two turns and utlimate are the only "hard" content in this game.

The dungeons are fine. They are easy, yes, but that means I can go in with a job i am rusty at to practice my full 70 kit again without worrying i will wipe the run.

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Name me one current dungeon that is even remotely challenging. I have ran Swallow's Compass, the most recent dungeon, with multiple people of varying skill and the healing requirements are so laughably low most of them spent 90% of the run DPSing. As for Byakko EX. He is easy. Just because players are bad doesn't change that fact. Speaking from my own experience, I cleared him after three pulls on a job outside my main (Warrior) having only a vague idea of his mechanics. And I was at ilvl. All it took was learning placements and listening to advice from the friends I ran it with. Anyone can do that. In fact, I have been teaching an "uptime" strat for Tsukiyomi. The only time it's ever been an issue is when people refuse to listen or learn from their mistakes.

You can literally spam 1-2-3 and clear every single dungeon in the game. If I don't do wall to wall pulls, I may as well remove all my tank CDs. They are functionally useless. Likewise, I am basically a glorified DPS on healers unless the tanks do super pulls. Even a good chunk of big pulls aren't all that difficult if you're remotely decent.

This sentiment, by the way, is not simply my own. It's shared amongst casual raiders. NEST of all groups mocked the lackluster challenge of Alte Roite and meme'd on Phantom Train. Both may be harder than actually else the game offers but they aren't difficult per se. They're fun fights, I will grant you that, but not overly difficult.

I feel glad.

It's old content, and people want to get to the new, myself included. I like it because there are times I need to catch up, and even if I don't need to catch up, I know there are people who do need a catchup.

I'm always supportive of obsolete content being made easier for the newcomers. I know what it's like to be a newcomer myself.

Most of the time it's just people not having patience from both sides. I think trials need lower time limit like 30 mins and remove vote abandon from it. The easiest compromise so they don't have to adjust difficulty everytime someone yells 'too easy' or 'too hard'. Dungeons is fine or easy enough, I think. If someone wants harder dungeons, I don't think it will do to lump bosses in a single instance, trial-style splitted bosses suit the most crowd.

Depend on the content.

Ya I want to be able to clear content that maybe I wasn't able to find a skilled group for...
But Things like relic should be way quicker because it's just achivement points at this point.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

This sentiment, by the way, is not simply my own. It's shared amongst casual raiders.

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You know, I'm doing trial roulette tonight, and i'm getting castrim flummins. One of my runs had one of the healers say at start "well, thirteenth time is the charm," which is the amount of failed runs he did before a clear. Another I came in as a dps on the 30 min mark. You'd be surprised at how often you can come in to a failed run on some of the harder casual content, like launch 24 mans. Now imagine if every single one of those things gets harder.

I don't care if raiders think casual content is too easy. It will always be easy for them, there's no way they can make dungeons equal to beginning tiers of savage, which you yourself says is no challenge. If they did that, it would hurt others far more than it helps.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

You know, I'm doing trial roulette tonight, and i'm getting castrim flummins. One of my runs had one of the healers say at start "well, thirteenth time is the charm," which is the amount of failed runs he did before a clear. Another I came in as a dps on the 30 min mark. You'd be surprised at how often you can come in to a failed run on some of the harder casual content, like launch 24 mans. Now imagine if every single one of those things gets harder.

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Failed runs doesn’t mean the content is even hard; just that players are either impatient or flat-out bad. That doesn’t make the content hard mechanically. Tsuku is actually good in its design as it requires you to actually pay attention...unlike most content in this game. Final Steps of Faith, Royal Menagerie, and Weeping City were the same way, and what do they all have in common? People whining that they’re “too hard”...because they actually have to pay attention and can’t just barrel through it. In my opinion, all four are the perfect difficulty for this game, especially since they are all supposed to be done at max level for their relative expansions—you know, when people are supposed to have an inkling of how to play their class.

That being said, none of these pieces of content were hard in the way you like to put it (i.e., “Savage-level difficulty”)—they were just more difficult than the majority of other MSQ-related content that required little to no thought to it.

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I don't care if raiders think casual content is too easy. It will always be easy for them, there's no way they can make dungeons equal to beginning tiers of savage, which you yourself says is no challenge. If they did that, it would hurt others far more than it helps.

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You’re speaking in extremes again—please quote where anyone in this thread has asked for Savage-level difficulty for dungeons. I want them to bring back dungeons more akin to original Amdapor Keep and Pharos Sirius...especially since they’re supposed to be “Expert” level dungeons. I don’t want more Kugane Castles and Swallow’s Compasses where I don’t have to actually heal the tank, much less the party outside of 1 GCD.