DRK changes from Prelim notes

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Originally Posted by Llus

The effect of increased enmity is great for trash mobs, but for those DRKS that use it in raids are now going to be stealing enmity

DA+Plunge now having an enmity effect? Again, going to be stealing hate

[...] you'd be nuts to not use it but people are going to hate you for using it when you're not MT

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Dark Arts 140 potency buff on Plunge or 140 potency from Dark Passenger for the same cost of a Dark Arts... or getting an additional 140 potency for Dark Pssenger with another Dark Arts... as i said earlier in this topic: just because you can now use Dark Arts on more different skills doesn't change the fact that your mana is still the same as before. you simply can't use Dark Arts more often. and there is no reason to use DA Plunge or Dark Passenger as an offtank besides some rare instances maybe.

just... use the mana on DA Syphon Strike, DA Souleater or DA Bloodspiller. all these skills give you the same 140 potency a DA Plunge or a Dark Passenger will give you.

Dark Arts has a 2 second CD anyway, so you can't use it on GCD > off-GCD > GCD > off-GCD... so just use it on the GCDs and of course Carve and Spit. and maybe on Dark Passenger when you really need some extra burst, yeah. but keep in mind that you will miss out on slashing debuff with that skill.


also yeah, getting tons of mana and burning it away was always DRKs gameplay. they just changed it from the automatic mana drain through Dark Side into an manually mana drain through Dark Arts. I am not the biggest fan of it too, but i have long adapted... however, what they could do is changing it back to the automatic mana drain maybe, everything else will need a gigantic rework of how DRK functions in it's core and how it is played. everything revolves around the constant mana flow and that mana has to go into somewhere. maybe in 5.0, but until then it's Dark Arts spam.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Every 30 seconds Paladin has Circle of Scorn and 2 shield swipes.

Every 30 seconds Warrior could have two onslaughts.

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onslaught is a DPS loss outside of IR since each cleave reduces the CD on infuriate by 5s and good WARs won't use it outside of IR or a gap closer; you do have a point on the circle of scorn and shield swipe (assuming you get a shield swipe proc) but bloodspiller, carve & spit, bloodspiller, plunge or BS, plunge, BS, C&S is a TON of burst damage (especially since C&S and Plunge are off-global) on top of the enmity bonus for plunge - PLD doesn't have that off-global burst potential. We'll have to see how much enmity it produces; but I still think it's going to cause DRKs to pull aggro at the worst possible times

I mean I think if you going into a raid with a lot of raid wide damaged (God Kefka) who cares about which tank does more damage. Raid wide mitigation is way more important than a tank's dps. In my opinion they either need to give DRK a raid wide mitigation ability or some other utility to add to its value in raid content. I think giving them an enhanced reprisal that could stack with a normal reprisal but have a longer cool down would be a good way to do it. Or even let them spread the blackest night shield to everyone in the group.

So out of all the information that has been complied they decided to take the enmity issue to heart the most. At least they finally some what fixed Shadow Wall and Dark Mind almost a year in. Now if only Dark mind blocked physical damage or gave some type of benefit other than blocking magical damage. Really wish they'd just get it over with and re name the job to Rune Fencer, Mystic Knight, or Rune Knight since Dark Knight has never been known to tank magical damage -- that should have been in the prelim notes. :X

Good job SE. This is an excellent list of adjustments and I'm glad you didn't decide to wait for a rework at 5.0 or sit on this for even longer.

Bad job community. This is utterly astonishing. Litterally half of the posts in this thread are "meh these aren't that great heres my list of complaints you didn't touch".

*"WAAH shadow wall should be like vengeance 2min". Fixd
*"Dark passenger has no reason to be on my hotbar". Fixd
*"Spending MP on defense is stupid" (DM) Fixd
*"Drk has no enmity maintenance in ST rotation" Fixd (plunge)
*"Power slash costs to much vs other tanks" "Heres DA refund and 46% damage/enmity boost. Fixd.
*"Sole Survivor is trash" "Its proc power is now free and buff to the proc"

And the very 1st response is "UGH Dark arts is still a spammy thing".

This is a whos who list of the largest complaints about drk completely adjusted per community demand and all half this forum can see is "ugh I still spam DA" "War got more love" "Heres my list of additional demands".

Give credit where credit is due. This is a huge list of positive changes and every single one of these changes has had multiple threads begging for exactly what we just got.

Kudos to the people that showed some appreciation instead of just whining that the pony they just got isnt the color they wanted.

Is that much different than the reaction to the Inner Release changes? This is normal, people discussing some of the design choices that may interfere with the way the job is currently being played. Truly though, the defensive adjustments are absolutely welcome, with no real downside. Dark Mind's change even reduces some of the Dark Arts spam-clipping to handle busters in a timely manner. To be sure, there are aspects of the playstyle that need to be addressed and from what it sounds like, they plan utilizing these stepping stone changes as a foundation for more comprehensive work done later, likely to Dark Arts itself. It's hopeful and nice, I'd like to see how this all plays out in the new content next week while looking forward to more attention in upcoming patches.

But Dark Knight players don't deserve to be vilified with stereotypes of being some whining mob that's any different than other classes, because they're not.

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Originally Posted by Tint

Dark Arts 140 potency buff on Plunge or 140 potency from Dark Passenger for the same cost of a Dark Arts... or getting an additional 140 potency for Dark Pssenger with another Dark Arts... as i said earlier in this topic: just because you can now use Dark Arts on more different skills doesn't change the fact that your mana is still the same as before. you simply can't use Dark Arts more often. and there is no reason to use DA Plunge or Dark Passenger as an offtank besides some rare instances maybe.

just... use the mana on DA Syphon Strike, DA Souleater or DA Bloodspiller. all these skills give you the same 140 potency a DA Plunge or a Dark Passenger will give you.

Dark Arts has a 2 second CD anyway, so you can't use it on GCD > off-GCD > GCD > off-GCD... so just use it on the GCDs and of course Carve and Spit. and maybe on Dark Passenger when you really need some extra burst, yeah. but keep in mind that you will miss out on slashing debuff with that skill.


also yeah, getting tons of mana and burning it away was always DRKs gameplay. they just changed it from the automatic mana drain through Dark Side into an manually mana drain through Dark Arts. I am not the biggest fan of it too, but i have long adapted... however, what they could do is changing it back to the automatic mana drain maybe, everything else will need a gigantic rework of how DRK functions in it's core and how it is played. everything revolves around the constant mana flow and that mana has to go into somewhere. maybe in 5.0, but until then it's Dark Arts spam.

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Yea every DA attack is a +140, but you're still looking at a +140 off-global (same as C&S) that during your BW phase is going to give you a nice bonus. You're also going to be making up something like 1800 mp every 120s with soul survivor as well as the extra MP you'll be getting during your BW phase with an additional +140 potency on your plunge (which you should be able to get twice during BW). We'll need to see how everything lines up, but napkin math is putting DA+Plunge clearly in the bonus room at least during BW.

As far as DP; that's a straight up nerf. Bad enough that it had the same cost as a DA with 40 less potency for single target (using DP in raids is and will probably remain pretty much worthless unless you don't have a ninja and are only using in your opener for the additional aggro - even then, using half your MP for a 280 potency attack just to get the extra enmity.... ugh)

The only change I don't like is Sole Survivor. It's basically just a mana potion now.

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Originally Posted by Seku

So out of all the information that has been complied they decided to take the enmity issue to heart the most. At least they finally some what fixed Shadow Wall and Dark Mind almost a year in. Now if only Dark mind blocked physical damage or gave some type of benefit other than blocking magical damage. Really wish they'd just get it over with and re name the job to Rune Fencer, Mystic Knight, or Rune Knight since Dark Knight has never been known to tank magical damage -- that should have been in the prelim notes. :X

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Yeah you can get over that lol; this is XIV's Dark Knight.

Shadow Wall I'd say is pretty well fixed; yeah it's still inferior to Vengeance but superior to Sentinel now that it has the proper CD time (Sent's CD sucks, I'd rather have it be weaker and shorter CD). It'd be great if it got an additional effect too (HP regen might be cool since healing from dark magic is their thing), but I'll still take what we're getting pretty happily.

The DA spam has still not been addressed however The changes are very much appreciated. And I am thankful for them until they can properly fix the job in 5.0