Those were a bit different because those raids didn't automatically give you a token for exchanging for the Coil-equivalent gear; from what I remember they were not 100% drop originally, and you still had to win the lot against your party. It wasn't until Void Ark where it started giving everyone the token automatically for clearing it once per week, which is where those raids actually became valid for progression's sake (as long as you were content with staying a patch behind the savage raid crowd, which evidently the OP is not)Quote:
Its been like this since Syrcus tower. LotA was the only outlier, since the first set of tomestone gear, bought with Mythology tomes, was the same ilvl as raid gear, ilvl 90, so there were no upgrade items yet.
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03-27-2018, 11:16 AMFynlar
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03-27-2018, 12:22 PMLuindidnt void ark also drop brd bis? or was that wod or mhach? it was one of the 24mans, that dropped a brd body piece that was that patch's bis, because that's why body only drops on last boss now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
Savage raiders deserve the higher ilvl first. They get it to themselves for the patch, then the casual players get the easy upgrades the next patch so they get to experience the rest of the new raid on easy-mode. That's fair. But this isn't a movie, this is a GAME. This requires player input. You can't be handed absolutely everything and expect to be treated as though you're an equal raider to players that put the effort into learning and clearing the fights.
If you're a BLM spamming Fire 3 and Blizzard 3 the entire fight, that's not the game's fault. If you're a DRK that thinks Grit's the best thing ever because you're a tank and dps isn't your job, that's not the game's fault. If you're a Scholar and see Ruin, Bio, and Miasma and think those are just holdovers from Arcanist because you didn't go Summoner, that's not the game's fault.
And as for a reward for being *forced* to do the content over and over? Players arent forced to do it, they do the content because it's the only content remotely challenging in the game, besides ultimate coil. It's the only content where you are justified in expected wipes in pugs. It's content that's still relatively new. And most importantly, it's the sense of accomplishment. Because not every player in the game cleared savage. When you do Totorak for the 500th bloody time do you feel good? No. But if you're part of maybe 30% of the playerbase that did o4s and you have the shiny new stick to prove it, you do.
Or have you ever thought that maybe people just find it fun? That they play the game because they enjoy it? Not for the carrot? -
03-27-2018, 12:27 PMConnor
I don’t really do savage, but I don’t see the problem with that stuff being the best, it’s only natural since it’s the hardest relevant content available.
That said, would’ve been nice if Eureka gear was at least as good as 360 time stuff, would be nice to have something between crafted i350 and savage that’s not tomestone gear for once. -
03-27-2018, 12:28 PMAlarayYeah, but you have to play the relevant portion of the game it drops in to get it. If you're not willing to do that, then you don't get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
If you're going to complain Savage drops the highest ilvl gear and that you want it too, odds are you don't need the gear to play the rest of the game so it's not a block that is creating a disparity between players being able to play the same game content. So it's not game breaking and SE doesn't need to make it so Savage doesn't reward players at all.
If you want to get that ilvl, then go get it. Open PF, find a group, learn the fights. -
03-27-2018, 01:51 PMLuinThe first relics are generally weak and are bis or comparable near the end of their lifespan, judging by HW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Connor
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03-27-2018, 02:01 PMFynlarI'm not disputing that. I'm saying that the whole "you don't NEED savage gear anyway if you're not doing savage" argument is garbage, because everyone wants to get stronger gear whether or not they're playing the hardest content, so that serves to placate nobody.Quote:
Yeah, but you have to play the relevant portion of the game it drops in to get it. If you're not willing to do that, then you don't get it.
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03-27-2018, 02:26 PMVahlnirPeople will get that level of gear, granted it all won't be BiS...they just have to wait.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
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03-27-2018, 02:53 PMAlarayThe point behind the statement is to say that, with Savage and BiS where it is, any player who holds no interest in participating in Savage content is not blockaded from other content due to a lack of that gear. So no, a player does not need it to participate in every other facet of the game which, the statement was used initially as to say, the system does not need to be changed in such a manner wherein BiS drops from something like, say, Sigmascape Normal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
While gaining more strength and power over time through the progression of a character via gear is a game staple, that wasn't really what the topic was about. -
03-27-2018, 03:15 PMRufalus
Without getting into the argument of what people deserve, I'd just like to point out that nobody needs 370 gear. Raiders often point out that casuals don't need the best item level, but neither do raiders by that logic. The first time you beat the raid, you did it without raid gear from that raid. You can raid in crafted stuff with Vit melds. Casual players want to increase their item level for the same reason that raiders do... because it makes you stronger and faster at clearing stuff and increases your contribution to your party. I guess if you do Ultimate, only then can you say top tier gear is needed.
I think they were forced due to the cycle, it would have made IL 360 stuff from the next alliance raid less relevant if you could already get 360 stuff with no weekly restrictions in a casual way. With no unique stats / horizontal progression in the game to differentiate things, they were pretty much forced to drop to 350 but add 5 materia slots as a compromise at this point in the cycle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Connor
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03-27-2018, 03:43 PMF_Maximillian
I'm just going to say.. remember all those times you argued about things like tank and healer dps and difficulty curve without even being 70? Now you have a taste of what people were talking about. That said, simply improve yourself and keep trying until you clear. That's how you beat any game really. There's a bunch of high level info available in places like the balance discord, you're just going to have to get used to the tougher content.