Dear Tanks

I only pull big when the healer wants me to.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

Just an FYI, but "Join date" means when you signed up for the forums and has nothing to do with when you started the game. For example, I've had a FFXIV account since 1.0's CB, but it says August 2013 on the forums because I didn't bother to sign up for them until ARR's launch.

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I am more than aware of that, but I am skeptical of anyone who attempts to use how long they've played a game as reason for why they're right and someone else is not. Particularly when their forum join date can be measured to at best one month ago, and they have other posts saying they are a returning player who mains three jobs that aren't any of the ones they're talking about in the multiple troll threads they've started. My guess is this person probably has played for a while at least, but got forum banned at least once in the past and this is their new troll account. My solution, as always, is to put them on ignore. Works wonders.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

The problem is the plethora of circular AoEs and PBAoEs that are too big to be outside of and still be within melee range of the target. Not usually a big deal in and of itself, but if you're fighting a large pack of mobs that spam those abilities and you're a melee DPS, prepare to have a bad time.

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The only ones that will have this issue are those with a large circular radius that are centered on the mob itself like the large toad aoe's. If a circular aoe is centered on you, just find the direction that doesn't put you out of range of the mob. This usually means moving to the side of the mob or even towards the tank. Even if 2 or 3 of them drop at the same time, there's always a direction to move that is more efficient than directly away from the mobs. You can also hit your weaponskills as you run, so you can even run most of the way out, pop the weaponskill at the last second, finish running out, and have more than enough time to run back in range before the next gcd. Even the toad AoE can allow this sometimes if it happens to time well with your gcd. Run 'n gun essentially.

Pulling big is nice and all, if some tanks do actually stop and stop there, instead of stopping, me putting down doton, then running off to get more and letting my doton tick away in its own lonely corner...

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Originally Posted by Rokke

Im not sure what words Im putting in your mouth. This chain started when you said monk AoE wasn't good and that SB limited AoE. I disagreed about MNK, but agreed with the limiting but find the increase in dungeon gates to be a bigger detriment to big pulls than the new 4.0 AoE. Our DRK/WHM experiences even match up so Im not sure whose jumping on who lol

I think most people are just saying MNK isn't as bad as you originally made it sound.
For what its worth, english isn’t my first language tho so ymmv :P

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that wasn't what I was trying to say actually.

i did say "not good" but i meant in terms of other jobs who are better at it. Not once did I say they suck. Also not once did i say large pulling was bad. Just the facts that SE is trying to slow it down. Which they are. No need to jump on my case for stating a fact.

idk what your main langue is but "not good" or "not as good" doesn't mean "garbage" or "terrible" :) i hope that clarifies.

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Originally Posted by Awful

The problem with what you posted is Monks AoE is that they are not affected by how many targets you hit, and even if they were AoE is more damage per potency vs single target. If you pull 20 mobs and only single target 1 you're missing a lot damage as a monk and their AoE used to be the melee king in HW it's still good now especially with the low TP costs and using Purifcation on AoE pulls so use it.

To regards to the tanks, yeah Drks lost a lot of their abilities but in terms of dungeons the tanks can equally pull everything and take the same abuse just Pld and War can smooth it out nicer than Drk in relation to CDs. They can all mass pull every single dungeon that's tuned for 70 easily it just takes people to actually press their AoE buttons and nuke everything down which heaven forbid people don't use as well as tanks cycling CDs as it's always been.

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not what i was talking about with monk. their aoe do not hit as hard as their single target skills. not once did i say monk aoe damaged sucked. I just said not good which i meant as a comparison to sam nin and drg. monk do better at single target then aoe. Monk can deal a good amount of damage in aoe but deal more with their single targets.

I also wasn't saying monks skills had an aoe fall off, but that other jobs skills do or was changed to in sb. which is SE trying to slow down mass dungeon pulling.

so in that regard you are mixing up 2 of my thoughts some how. *shrug*

as for drk tanking, that mostly player to player based, not all players who play tank are good at mass pulling. Drks are great at mass pulling, just again with SE trying to curb mass pulling, their defenses got the shaft.

My g/f had to deal with an immature healer in Arf recently she started to pull, and all the healer did was spam cure. no damage just heal. She (my g/f) wasn't taking much damage and the cast sound started to hurt her ears. So she ask the healer to stop spam curing. At first she asked the healer if they was bored got no reply.
then told them politely to cut it out that the cures were not needed. (my gf hp barely went under 99% before healer cured her) my g/f stopped a sec to adjust her headphones as the healer decides to pull.

gf didn't notice this and accidentally let them die, but really the healer shouldn't have been pulling. my g/f asked why they pulled no reply, then healer declares to not be healing anymore calling my b/f an ass. she tried asking the healer why she said this trying to explain what happen. healer wanted to pick a fight. My g/f just kept trying to plat best she could using AD to get her hp back lol. suck they finished the dungeon faster then they could boot the healer.

but ya skill wise a drk does best in large pulls, if the healer doesn't holy spam during dark price a tank can use DA+AD to keep their hp up with no mp issues. just sucks their defense skills got neutered.


but again, try to read in full, or ask questions. I try my best to communicate but i get sometimes i fk up. I dislike people jumping on my case for being honest or giving my 2 cents from my experience with a monk/drk and personal experience as a mnk/drk. And people jumping on my case over a word use that their head cannon twists.

not once did i say monk aoe suck, or drk suck at large pulling.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

you can do the same, if you want to pull up to each boss go with people you like, and of like minded intent.

also not ever melee has good aoe skills, monk being 1 of them. some melee do good some don't. SE has been slowly down grading aoe's to stop us from large pulling.

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"Not every melee has good aoe skills, monk being one of them" there is no misunderstanding this, you are exactly saying monk has no good aoe skills. What you meant means nothing when your words, taken exactly as they are, mean something different. No good skills =/= skills not as good. And yeah, saying not good is basically saying its bad.

So yes, people were correcting you on exactly what you said, which MNK has good AoE, because it has decent initial burst with no fall-off per mob count. And SE is trying to curb the accelerated growth AoE potential had in the past; scale it down for those who were imbalanced monsters in regards to it. It can be claimed they are trying to neuter it, but then we see something like WAR getting beefed up lifesteal on Steal Cyclone which is something that supports higher counts.

In terms of ability efficiency, collecting as many mobs as you can for your burst window using your buffs has much more value as many dps lost secondary cooldown buffs.

Nope.

If I see people in reasonably good gear and not a total garbage for AOE comp I'm mass pulling. If we die, adjust afterwards.

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Originally Posted by XykeVayaris

Pulling big is nice and all, if some tanks do actually stop and stop there, instead of stopping, me putting down doton, then running off to get more and letting my doton tick away in its own lonely corner...

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pay attention to the tank, sometimes they got to stop to use an aoe enmity skill as the healer puts regen or cures them mid pull making mobs not hit run to the healer. Also give tank a sec to adjust before doing a skill. It helps a ton.

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

"Not every melee has good aoe skills, monk being one of them" there is no misunderstanding this, you are exactly saying monk has no good aoe skills. What you meant means nothing when your words, taken exactly as they are, mean something different. No good skills =/= skills not as good. And yeah, saying not good is basically saying its bad

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there is a misunderstanding with this. Not good =/= suck :)

not my fault you took 1 thing i said out of context, and put your own head cannon. I do apologies if i didn't express my thought well enough, but "not good"=/= "garbage" or "terrible" if i though monk aoe suck, i would have said "monk aoe suck"

not good doesn't automatically mean bad btw. Just not good, or not as good. bad means bad. i never stated the word bad.

I also tried to fix what i meant more clearly, if you look at the rest of my posts since i noticed the miscommunication.

i meant monk aoe is not as good as a sam in terms of raw power. monk deal better damage to single targets, which make sense as they are hand to hand.

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Originally Posted by InfiniDragon

Nope.

If I see people in reasonably good gear and not a total garbage for AOE comp I'm mass pulling. If we die, adjust afterwards.

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you should communicate to the other members, being in good gear or good aoe comp means nothing. Player to player skills is a factor.

Well OP, congratulations, this thread got a lot bigger than it should've been.