I do not have a "Main" I want to gear all jobs, change weekly gatings?

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

It works in terms of making people sub longer and making more money for the company. That's what I mean by it's working for them. What I mean is if it wasn't working financially, SE would change it. The other thing about SE is that they have to be careful because PvE is the main focus, compared to Blizzard where they have more options.

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Make a poll, how meany people play just because their friends do vs the game itself? Has nothing to do with gating helping their subs. People play because they are invested with the time spent in the game and their friends, not on the fact of repeated gating.

I guarantee you gating is not helping SE to keep people subbed. The server I am on is proof. People want to RP, Rp with their friends, and this one became the unofficial server for that. The biggest server for FFXIV was built on "I want to play with my friends"

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

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I am feeling burned out because of a lack of story content, not gating. If it were not for the gating I really would be burned out and unsubbed by now. Another thing is that this time around they changed how the weekly tomestone is given on the dungeons so that the expert dungeons give out good amounts of the weekly tomestones, instead of the best method being to spam grind maps for Aquapolis/Canals.

Also, outside of melee DPS we do not gear individual classes but rather we gear roles.

If you get the fending set its for your PLD, WAR, and DRK. The only point different for them is going to be the weapon which just makes you run Susano EX a lot (which is easy for tanks). Aiming for Bard and MCH. Casting for BLM, SMN, and RDM. Healing for AST, SCH, and WHM.

Which means depending on your choice of class you are gearing up to 3 jobs at once excluding weapon. This means you can have savage geared tanks, creation geared healers, and omega normal/crafted/verity geared DPS. A lot better then back in HW where you were spending tomestones on your artifact ilvl 200 set per class.

In every MMO, even those that let you change jobs on the fly, people will (almost) always choose a main. They used to encourage you to play every class with the prerequisites for job unlock, cross-class actions, and the armory bonus; players complained and they took those out, so now there's less reasons to try another job that isn't your main. So if the problem is you don't have a main (and you've only mentioned BLM and MCH), maybe try another job? maybe try another role altogether? Buy the tome chest piece or pants and you'll have it for RDM/BLM/SMN, anyway.

They're not getting rid of the gating for many reasons that have already been said; do I wish I could have gotten my weapon on the second week after the tomestone dropped from V2S? Sure! (maybe increase the weekly cap to 500, pretty please?) Did I throw a fit? No! Hell, a part of me was thankful I only needed to do expert, omega/savage for a few days and then stop worrying about it until tuesday... We've even had posts up from people saying "I can only play around 1 hour a day, so if the tank is harassing us in expert and then rage quits, I just lost the entire day of playtime and am behind on the weekly cap!" The gating insures that the guy who can only play on weekends, or an hour or two after work, isn't completely left behind by the guy who capped on reset day, and even then the hardcore raider will get their 340 gear earlier than the casual, since the raider's likely to clear Savage before the casual can get their tome pieces.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

You are stating why gating is not needed. You said yourself you only need above 290 if you do not salvage. But if you do salvage gating impacts you. So why gate if for most people it does not effect the game? for the people that want to salvage more then one job, why gate them from doing so? No one has yet proven why gating is a benefit. It only harms the game from it's own concept, being able to play any job on one character.

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Why do you need 330? Because you want it? That isn't an argument against gated content since you have no need for Creation unless you're a raider. As I cited earlier, we have an example of what happens with an uncapped tomestone in Verity. Within a month, most people completely geared the jobs they prefer playing, thus they have no incentive to keep running content. If I can freely obtain 330 gear at my leisure. Why am I going to run Omega normal? Why am I going to buy or make inferior crafted gear? Why would I run the upcoming 24 man raid more than once or twice? Why would I queue into roulettes? Short answer, I wouldn't. And that is why the gate exists. It's to incentivize players like me to continuously run content so others have shorter queue times.

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Do you have any proof it helps? it clearly is a strain to keep doing the same thing over and over again to some people. How many people that effects varies and the only way to prove one way or another in an absolute matter if SE tries to cut out gating completely for a cycle. You can theory craft either way and there be disagreements to both.

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The burden of proof is on you. You're the only calling into question the validity the system, thus you have to provide evidence why it's hurting Square.

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

Make a poll, how meany people play just because their friends do vs the game itself? Has nothing to do with gating helping their subs. People play because they are invested with the time spent in the game and their friends, not on the fact of repeated gating.

I guarantee you gating is not helping SE to keep people subbed. The server I am on is proof. People want to RP, Rp with their friends, and this one became the unofficial server for that. The biggest server for FFXIV was built on "I want to play with my friends"

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You contradict yourself. If people only want to roleplay and play with friends, well, why do you need the highest level gear for all your jobs?

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Why do you need 330? Because you want it? That isn't an argument against gated content since you have no need for Creation unless you're a raider.

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Even raiders don't need higher gear. It simply makes doing higher level content run smoother, but this can be applied across the board. So why does anyone bother gearing? Because we want to.

Unfortunately I don't think this argument ever will come to a good conclusion as the same arguments constantly get tossed around with everyone being completely blind or unsympathetic to anyone's situation other than their own.

You have the group of people that already have a great static and fc, that already have a raid spot, all the support they need, and have no issues accomplishing anything they want in game. Nothing is wrong to these people as they have no issues. They say, "make friends and join us!". While being oblivious to the fact that when it comes down to putting their money where their mouth is they are cliquey and aren't looking for new friends (or at least the majority of others aren't). But hey... they are living the high life and everything smells like roses... right?

There are those that are passionate about changing things for the better. But they are not part of the "cool crowd" and too often divided amongst themselves. Many just quit without ever saying a word. Lack of visibility and division in how they imagine fixing the issues keeps them crippled.

Then you get the people who are fine with never doing savage. Just want social fun and ascetics. They are perfectly happy with how things are because they aren't even looking for the end of the road. They are having fun doing whatever it is they do and all is good. Stop and smell the roses right? Why have larger goals?

Which btw, all these types are fine... Nothing wrong with being who or what you are... But what is wrong is the complete lack of empathy between them. Noone cares to look over the fence and see how the other side are doing. Those who do step out of line and play the devil's advocate are vilified. So these conversations always fail to reach compromise. Everyone is right, noone but them could possibly have a valid opinion... And the cycle continues... If we had good conversations where people respected others opinions we might be able to find something that we all can live with but why be productive? It's so much easier just to keep doing this...

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

You are stating why gating is not needed. You said yourself you only need above 290 if you do not salvage. But if you do salvage gating impacts you.

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I'd hope anyone wanting to do savage knows what the content is actually called...

Player skill matters way more than the difference in ilvl between uncapped and capped gear. Savage was cleared entirely by world first groups in gear available the first week. Yes, getting higher ilvl makes runs go smoother, but lack of the capped gear on an alt job isn't realistically holding anyone back.

And, considering the difficulty of content that is in the DF.. no, weekly caps are not why DPS have long queues. Verity gear is more than enough for everything in the standard DF. I mean, come on, the new AF works for that content...

I have a question for everyone supporting this concept of gating this game does (and contradicts itself of allowing you play more then 1 job)Why where you doing delta normal after the second week? the 320 gear is cheap, cheaper then I am willing to even craft for it (meaning not worth my time to do so) This means if I was in a static, or invited to one, I would buy all the 320 gear for every slot for the job they needed and penta meld all the slots. This makes the 320 delta normal outdated on the second week of release, and this gated gear of taking 4 weeks to get, was outdated before you can obtain it. How can you support something like this? delta normal shouldn't been gated on 4.05+ because it is outdated gear, and i do not get gating 330 gear behind outdated content (running the same thing that got you 310 gear in 4.0)

So why run delta normal? How does gating help the game at all? This was never explained. I was asked why do I need 330 gear but that question can be flipped back to them. Why do you need 330 gear? people cleared salvage pena melding 320 crafted. Why do you need 340 gear? Why care what other people have? What I do not like is sometime in the near future, I would be gated from not being able to play what is needed because I chosen the wrong job to gear and would be unable play with my friends. THAT is why it bothers me, that is why I do not like it, I do not want to run in the situation I can't play with my friends because of concepts that do not fit the game. (You can play whatever job you want, but can only gear one) How are we supposed to know what to pick when it takes months to gear something because of time gates?

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Originally Posted by Eclipsed

Unfortunately I don't think this argument ever will come to a good conclusion as the same arguments constantly get tossed around with everyone being completely blind or unsympathetic to anyone's situation other than their own.

You have the group of people that already have a great static and fc, that already have a raid spot, all the support they need, and have no issues accomplishing anything they want in game. Nothing is wrong to these people as they have no issues. They say, "make friends and join us!". While being oblivious to the fact that when it comes down to putting their money where their mouth is they are cliquey and aren't looking for new friends (or at least the majority of others aren't). But hey... they are living the high life and everything smells like roses... right?

There are those that are passionate about changing things for the better. But they are not part of the "cool crowd" and too often divided amongst themselves. Many just quit without ever saying a word. Lack of visibility and division in how they imagine fixing the issues keeps them crippled.

Then you get the people who are fine with never doing savage. Just want social fun and ascetics. They are perfectly happy with how things are because they aren't even looking for the end of the road. They are having fun doing whatever it is they do and all is good. Stop and smell the roses right? Why have larger goals?

Which btw, all these types are fine... Nothing wrong with being who or what you are... But what is wrong is the complete lack of empathy between them. Noone cares to look over the fence and see how the other side are doing. Those who do step out of line and play the devil's advocate are vilified. So these conversations always fail to reach compromise. Everyone is right, noone but them could possibly have a valid opinion... And the cycle continues... If we had good conversations where people respected others opinions we might be able to find something that we all can live with but why be productive? It's so much easier just to keep doing this...

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Well said

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Originally Posted by Sho86

Until said raiders come storming into dailies, with some making more than a fuss that people are slow at pulling, stressing others out with their iLvl, which in turn makes these threads. Full circle lol.

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Literally have never seen that happen. The only time people make comments about gear/ilvls in daily content is when there is some extreme outlier. For example: an individual running Expert roulette with an NQ level 52 weapon (there was a post about this in the DF thread a while back), or a tank coming into The Vault wearing his i90 job gear and a level 5 Weathered Choker (saw this on reddit a couple days ago). Unless you're wearing something extremely underleveled for the content, reasonable people in roulettes generally do not care. I don't even examine individuals' gear unless I notice a glaring issue (e.g., super squishy tank WITH tank stance and cooldowns; a party member with suspiciously low HP compared to the others; etc.).

Now, if you're talking Ex primals or Savage, yes, people will sometimes make a comment if you come into V1S as a tank wearing an i300 body piece when you should at least be wearing the Verity body, if for nothing else than the defense boost it gives. But for all the daily content, max ilvl and full Creation is hardly necessary.



If people utilized all the gear options available to them, they could easily gear up different jobs. The 320 crafted gear, at least on my server, is far cheaper than any of the HW crafted gear ever was during its relative patch. Omega normal, if you plan your tokens correctly, can be used to gear other jobs and net you 1-2 new pieces weekly. Verity is still viable for Daily content and the two current Ex primals. Even V1S and V2S can be cleared with a mixture of Verity pieces, Creation, and Omega Normal. You don't even need crafted gear to clear it; the extra melds and stat boosts just help make clears faster/smoother.

I have 3 level 70 jobs. My main (BRD) is i320, which I raid with. AST and RDM, my two secondaries, are i315, which I do other content with (including Ex primals). I'm using Omega normal tokens to gear both my secondaries, and only Creation/Savage drops for BRD. However, if my static doesn't want any healer or caster drops, yay, free gear for my secondaries. Not to mention, I'm almost to the point where I can easily craft the i320 stuff for myself (just need a few more melds on my non-specialists to meet the crafting requirements), even though I can afford to just buy it outright because it's not that expensive compared to previous sets of crafted gear.

If people only limit themselves to one gearing option (e.g., capped tomestones) then they don't have anyone to blame for it but themselves. Use all your options, three of which don't even require gil (Ex primals, Omega Normal, and uncapped tomes).

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Originally Posted by Snow_Princess

I can gear all my jobs to 320 + in 5 minutes if I wanted, the question is what is the point in doing that? If 310-320 is good enough for everything how can you argue there is content to do? As said I cap every week, I am a 70-2 star omni-crafter, though not top melded so I can't do it fast, with the cost of 320 on the MB, it is far more worth it just to buy from the MB as I take 30 seconds to get the same profit margins as the 320 stuff on other things, in 30 seconds. (Oh and the reason I said 320 + is because I have 1k+ in creation because I do not know what to spend them on, because I do not have a job to invest that kind of gating into. I used to just put them on BLM because I like the feel of it, now I don't)

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Wait. If you can "easily gear all your jobs to 320+" via being an omni-2** crafter, and if you don't do any sort of Savage raids, then why exactly are you here complaining about not being able to gear all of your jobs? What would unlocking Creation tomestones do, other than give you another ungated gearing option when you literally already have one? Or are you here trying to speak for the "little man"?

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Even raiders don't need higher gear. It simply makes doing higher level content run smoother, but this can be applied across the board. So why does anyone bother gearing? Because we want to.

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Yep. I mentioned earlier, I did V1-3 Savage with half Verity gear. A smoother run though doesn't mean tomestones should be unlocked so you can bounce jobs at your leisure. That would just result in everyone having everything within a month ala Verity gear.