WAR is Trash Tier Now

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Originally Posted by Leigaon

What would you change in both the stances besides the reduction? Would you add anything to Deliverance or Defiance to balance out why they made the large penalty?

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Defiance should mitigate 10% more dmg and Deliverance should add 10% more DPS. Just that would make a 50 beast cost feel more appropriate.

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Originally Posted by Leigaon

I'll admit, I do tap that button outside of combat so I could see that being in there, but what would you adjust to outside of that? Would you increase the timer? decrease it? increase the amount?

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Infuriate would be a good way to deal with the stance swap penalty. I'd leave the timer at 60s, but either have Defiance/Deliverance trigger a 15s timer reduction, or have Infuriate fill the beast gauge completely. Leave to "in combat only" but extend its power in order to tweak the stance swap.

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Originally Posted by Leigaon

I'm far from a veteran tank, do you find yourself as a tank in any other situation where you need to use a self Esuna? Do you think that an Esuna + Bloodbath syncs well? Maybe it needs to be re-done entirely.

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I think fights where stacking debuffs happen give Shake It Off its purpose. Not sure how many of those kind of fights are in the 68+ content because I am not there, but that would seem to be it's best intended use. Stuff Esuna cannot get rid of, but SIO could? It needs a shield, dmg reduction or heal added. Nothing major, but something like 1/3 of Equilibrium in Defiance?

WE need bloodbath back !! , specaily for the lower instances
and overpower is shit for tagging mobs with its cone effect everything runs past it

I could buy into the idea of Shake It Off having a use in higher-end content if we hadn't already been down this road since ARR's launch with PLD's Tempered Will. DRK has no native means to divest itself of status debuffs, and as such, we are not going to see content designed around inflicting multiple stacked detrimental statuses when only two of the three tanks have that ability.

The point about WAR no longer bringing anything of value to the table remains valid. What little WAR brings in the form of the slashing down debuff is easily accessed by including NIN/SAM in a group, and both PLD/DRK can approach WAR's damage output without the long setup or the punishing resource losses. You need entirely too many GCDs to both set up and execute six successive Fell Cleaves, and as has been articulated previously, Inner Release sharing a cooldown timer with Unchained practically removes Unchained's utility and eliminates any incentive to use it. Like it or not, the community is going to push WAR aside and all meta group comps are going to favor PLD/DRK.

I'd much rather be rid of Shake It Off and get something like Thrill of War. Honestly, I'd much rather all three tanks bring some kind of unique party-wide utility in addition to standardized utility; i.e. slashing resist down being applied from a second-stage weapon skill combo, and a standardized damage down debuff being applied from a third-stage. This FotM nonsense has to end, and the developers need to think long and hard about how to give options in the form of party-wide contributions from PLD, DRK, and WAR alike.

Yeeeeah, I took a year off from this game, but then the Stormblood hype finally bit me hard and now it's time to blow the dust off my warrior and go RAAAAAAAAGE against the empire--

Wait. WHAT? What is happening here?? I'm confused and scared! I don't like this Beast gauge. It doesn't make me feel beastly at all!

The night is so long and cold.

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Originally Posted by CaptnYesterday

Ok, so that's how you define "Trash Tier". The community will define it differently. TLDR: It's not impossible, but that alone does not rescue WAR from being trash.

Lack of sustain requires more Storm's Path and Inner Beast and less enmity and DPS. Keeping aggro itself is harder with Warrior (depending on the pull you waste GCDs putting you behind in DPS and/or sustain based mitigation). No 360 AOE enmity generator...

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That was where I stopped paying attention to you. What do you think steel cyclone is?

Throwing around reactive terms like trash tier exaggerates the discourse. Competent tanks and good warriors can still play the job well, and I know I'm not alone in that. Complaints about lack of added utility aside, it's still both a good main tank and off tank. Are there things that could be improved? Absolutely. Is my raid team demanding I switch to DRK? No. Am I going to bring it into Omega? That depends. I'll certainly get it ready as a backup plan, but we've had zero issues clearing and farming the content available so far.

Give Square feedback on job improvements by all means, but this kind of inflammatory rhetoric drags down the whole argument and leads to people kicking or excluding good tanks for no reason.

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Originally Posted by ed3891

the developers need to think long and hard about how to give options in the form of party-wide contributions from PLD, DRK, and WAR alike.

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This so much. Just a clear, basic design philosophy as to why you pick each tank class. Like:

WAR - Single-target, great at DPS against one target but worse at large group pulls.

PAL - Crowd control, great at handling large groups, DPS against single target isn't great.

DRK - Interference, great at preventing mechanics, shutting down enemies, so on. Maybe a more subtle play style than the other two.

I'm not saying those are THE ideal ways to design them, but there needs to be that kind of thinking. Then, different tanks will have different specialties for different situations, but they'll all be useful in raid groups and normal content.

I was thinking about this too. Honestly I'd like to see them move towards wow tank archetypes.

Paladin being damage mitigation and casted heals aka paladin

Dark knight being more blood death knights with corruption debuff and leeching like a vampire

Warriors more savage like druids with more emphasis on high health and instant cast heal over times.

Running with these archetypes, I'd give dark knights bloodlust and rename it bloodthirst.

Wars, I get rid of inner beast and decimate and keep fell cleave and steel cyclone. Then make it so that being in defiance gives those abilities enmity. I'd let the defiance damage penalty affect those abilities.

With inner beast gone, I'd give warriors a new tanking ability that costs rage.

With warriors now having access to rampart, I don't think they need another damage mitigation cooldown. Instead, I'd give them a heal over time. 50 rage cost xxxx health restored over xxxx seconds.

With this new HOT, equilibrium and thrill, the war as a druid, self healing tank is firmly established.

Thrill can be used preemptively for damage spikes, the hot to smooth fluctuations in the wars health, and eq for emergency heals.

Make stance switching free during inner relase so wars can switch and do their fell cleave spam. This way, they can build max rage, inner release, blow it, then switch back.

Probably change the stance passive to accomdate this play style. Like a flat passive of some kind that doesn't fluctuate with rage levels.

Also the hot would be useful to wars off tanking and not have access to eq for self healing. Sacrifice some off tank dps for those instances where u need a heal ut the healer is busy trying to keep Mt alive.