Are we as players afraid of a challenge?

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

I hear you saying "None of this extra content in game challenges ME". I blame Internet sites that spoon-fed you all your information, including how to perform in dungeon instances.

Try to craft three star level 60 HQ gear using NQ materials AND not resorting to prepared macros you found on YouTube. Heck, try figuring out how to get crafting blue scrips without resorting to an Internet search.

Try to figure out the ARR sightseeing requirements for all 80 sites without a search engine.

Your premise appears to be "I find this game to lack challenge, therefore the game design is wrong". It might also be coupled with a bit of "I'm nostalgic for another MMO/FPS I played. Let's make this game more like that one."

I don't buy the argument.

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Sorry, but OP is right those pieces of content isn't challenging if you think it is then you have no idea what a real challenge is.

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Originally Posted by Zaresin

Most American players do not like challenge, grind, or time walls. Not like they used too. Go to any forums of any MMO style game out currently that is made outside the US. You will see numerous posts whining about grind, time, or things just being "too hard". It's pathetic really but I'm attributing it to the mind set of people these days. Instant gratification. The problem with instant gratification is once those players get everything they want, they jump ship till the next expansion.

When someone has difficulty or a time consuming task, players will repeat that task till it is masterede or they will do it once then avoid like the plague, then complain on the forums about the grind not being fun. American players (and EU players to some extent) are not like Korean or Japanese players who enjoy grind/difficulty. These players are trained from a young age to deal with difficult/time consuming tasks. Look at where they rank in education, this is their culture. America does not have that culture mindset. It's one reason they tend to be much friendlier to new or inexperienced players. They are used to difficult things and helping someone else out helps them out. In America we tend to be only out for ourselves. We can see this when a group fails as we start pointing fingers rathe than failing as a group.

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Wow what a post.
Buzz off with that crap, it's not only them.

What is worth while depends on opinion and varies person to person as this topic shows very well. Some want challenge. Others want something casual that they don't feel a need to be the best in something or work for. The latter is becoming more common place due to player mindset and that mindset is regionalized. Look at KTera vs Tera in the US/EU, BNS in Korea/Jpn/china vs US/EU. The games difficulty/content is tweaked based on the projected audience. Why is it things are always dumbed down for the US?

Heck look at all the "We want compensation" posts when something goes down on a F2P game. It goes back to that instant gratification mind set. Until that goes away, the difficulty will always be artificial. While this game is a sub style game, the concept applies as well.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

Let's kill this nonsense trope right here. North American players have never minded a challenge as long as the rewards were commensurate with that challenge. Who wanted to fight Kirin knowing that it could just drop an Earth crystal? That made people feel like suckers in XI. Anyone honest with themselves would question a challenge's worth if it offered little reward for much risk. That's why Abyssea did so well in XI and why much of XIV's content is doing well.

Grinds are only as tolerable as the end reward allows.

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Abyssea was absolutely not a smash hit for XI, and has been blamed for ruining XI as it had been known. This caused a good amount of people to leave the game and spawned an insane number of requests for SE to roll back to "pre-abyssea" days.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

Abyssea was absolutely not a smash hit for XI, and has been blamed for ruining XI as it had been known. This caused a good amount of people to leave the game and spawned an insane number of requests for SE to roll back to "pre-abyssea" days.

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I'd say Voidwatch had more to do with that than Abyssea. Then again, the hardcore cliques who had their apple carts overturned upon Abyssea's release would be expected to make this argument.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

I'd say Voidwatch had more to do with that than Abyssea. Then again, the hardcore cliques who had their apple carts overturned upon Abyssea's release would be expected to make this argument.

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It was not only the "hardcore cliques" who were upset. Stop making stuff up.

Maybe the next FF MMO will be what most of us want, maybe SE will actually listen to us and make a

• seamless open world(its vey possible don't say its not)

• tough open world mobs that use unique skills

• no aoe markers, actual and useful CC abilities/spells

• MORE GRAPHICAL OPTIONS

• open world dungeons(but use the old 1.0 behest option so it acts like an instance but everyone could benefit)

• horizontal progression but with an emphasis on the character/class/job(this way gear is cycled out easier)

• less focus on trinity system?(this one is hard for me because I enjoy have specific roles in content but then sometimes its boring to have a static non predictable system)

• NM using a interesting system where they are summoned by parties

• ELEMENTAL WHEEL

• crafting that isn't just about glamours

• more weighty character animations and moving animations(start up and stop, turning left and right(design it for outside combat only))

• NO FLYING

• boat/airships that have actual travel times(designed to not have to wait for them to get back though since thats just annoying)

• limited fast travel(make breeding mounts a thing and have abilities/traits to help with travel(a game I'm playing right now does this))

• side quests that are more than just kill trash.

Not everyone enjoys a snooze fest and people are pretty selfish if they can't allow the game to have interesting things that aren't all instance cross server crap. Yes I know I made this list for the next FFMMO but maybe one day we will see some of this stuff in XIV and more people will finally be happier with the game. You can have challenge without making things so hard people can't do anything, challenge isn't always just for battles.

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Originally Posted by bass9020

Maybe the next FF MMO will be what most of us want, maybe SE will actually listen to us and make a list

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Although this should be serperate system were it doesn't effect the story or dungeons currently what we have IMO it should be restriction like materia when level sync were those special trait ect doesn't effect that content that way people who want easy content is still there with grinding tomes ect and then they can chose too try it out like PvP too see if they like it or not. /shrug

I do feel like the dungeons have been "dumbed" down compared to when 2.01st released.

I enjoy (and still do) the layout and boss mechanics of Aurum Vale and Dzemael Darkhold. I remember when stressing out whenever that large tonberry came into view in Wanderer's Palace. They were challenging, but not hard.

I love a challenge, I'm just afraid of the stupid, carry me pls people in DF.