The Greystone Bastard (naming lore query)

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

Sorry, but for me, genocide can NEVER be the solution. Yes, Ishgard started the war. Yes, the Holy See and the High Houses suppressed ~90% of the citizens through lies and terror. Still, by purging the entire city, you will involuntarily kill an awful lot of innocent people. It would put us on the same step as the Garleans and Ascians. It is exactly what Nidhogg is doing, punishing people for the misstakes of their ancestors. That's something I really despise.
If you want to change something, do it with means that are actually helpful. Like, replacing the government, changing its structures from within... oh, wait, we are already doing this. So sorry that change actually needs time.

And people aren't a 'sickness', by the way.

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It was a joke, sort of.

"The sickness must be purged!" is what Charibert keeps yelling in the Vault

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

Sorry, but for me, genocide can NEVER be the solution. Yes, Ishgard started the war. Yes, the Holy See and the High Houses suppressed ~90% of the citizens through lies and terror. Still, by purging the entire city, you will involuntarily kill an awful lot of innocent people. It would put us on the same step as the Garleans and Ascians. It is exactly what Nidhogg is doing, punishing people for the misstakes of their ancestors. That's something I really despise.
If you want to change something, do it with means that are actually helpful. Like, replacing the government, changing its structures from within... oh, wait, we are already doing this. So sorry that change actually needs time.

And people aren't a 'sickness', by the way.

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I know...and this is basically what I hate about the current situation.

We just can't win, because:

a) Despite our best efforts, people will still act like (suicidal) idiots.

Just look at what happened with Teledji, Ilberd and the Holy See.
Even with our legendary status and (most importantly) our good intentions, people still think that getting rid of us is the best solution.

b) The Ascians (which we know nothing about, nor do we question about) still continue to pull the strings on everything, effectively being 2-3 steps ahead of us.

It's just...so easy to lose heart right now, and even makes you wonder if Eorzea (or even Hydaelyn itself) is worth saving at this point...

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I was kind of surprised to see so much resistance to the idea that it was a bastard surname (to the point that, hey, maybe he had two battle titles and they nixed the surname on his public memorial in favor of the less popular one).

It's a core feature of Haurchefant's character that the most chivalrous member of House Fortemps was supposedly beneath its name. It's almost more offensive to raise him up after he's dead, isn't it? Treating him like he earned an upgraded name when in truth he humbled those who bear it? When it comes to what goes down in history, Haurchefant Greystone is an example that I wouldn't want diluted by a posthumous feel-good gesture.

If in-world logic isn't enough, though, let's come out-of-world for a minute.
Haurchefant needed a quick-but-meaningful backstory and they invoked Jon Snow.

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I think for most people (at least pre-dev commentary) it was less resistance and more speculation because it wasn't explained at all, and knowing where the inspiration for it is from doesn't really count as an explanation, especially when you factor in that there ARE people that either don't like or just don't watch/read GoT. It wouldn't have been that hard to have a single NPC mention it, maybe someone in Camp Dragonhead, or perhaps Francel. And WHAT backstory? We already knew he was a bastard, and the introduction of the lore for it was just kinda tossed in there with a single word in a minion description. Not sure "meaningful" really applies to anything about "Greystone".

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

It's just...so easy to lose heart right now, and even makes you wonder if Eorzea (or even Hydaelyn itself) is worth saving at this point...

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"I'm not strong at all... I was even betrayed by the same people I protected... I don't want to anyone else to sacrifice themselves for me... I'm not the Warrior of Light... who cares what will happen to Hydaelyn...? I don't want to fight anymore... it's not like anyone appreciates it anyway... there's no way we can beat Zodiark...! It's the Scions' problem... not mine... I can't choose the future!"

"Even so, I...!"

... ok, done being a dork for now.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Haurchefant needed a quick-but-meaningful backstory and they invoked Jon Snow.

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Originally Posted by RyuRoots

And WHAT backstory? We already knew he was a bastard, and the introduction of the lore for it was just kinda tossed in there with a single word in a minion description. Not sure "meaningful" really applies to anything about "Greystone".

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More the other way around - they invoked the Jon-Snow-like background early on in Heavensward (brother's quests) and then later applied a bastard surname that fit the invocation.

It's really hammered home by the item description of the very same minion: What isn't dead (or is recreated in a goldsmith's workshop) can never die. Even that is an A Song of Ice and Fire joke based on a prayer to the Drowned God.

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Originally Posted by Aeron

Let Theon your servant be born again from the sea, as you were. Bless him with salt, bless him with stone, bless him with steel.

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Originally Posted by Theon

What is dead may never die.

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Originally Posted by Aeron

What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger.

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Inb4 more Haurchefant resurrection theories.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

More the other way around - they invoked the Jon-Snow-like background early on in Heavensward (brother's quests) and then later applied a bastard surname that fit the invocation.

It's really hammered home by the item description of the very same minion: What isn't dead (or is recreated in a goldsmith's workshop) can never die. Even that is an A Song of Ice and Fire joke based on a prayer to the Drowned God.

Inb4 more Haurchefant resurrection theories.

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/inserts Haurchefant ressurection theory
http://i.imgur.com/koxTDTw.jpg
http://36.media.tumblr.com/c2b7eef3e...by9o1_1280.png
http://i.imgur.com/kFAv3PQ.jpg

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Originally Posted by Emmanellain

[Haurchefant Ixion]

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http://36.media.tumblr.com/caf0f1036...qgylbb_500.png
(Yes, that is Haurchefant.)

Also, can we start calling the ixion-centaur-thing Horsechefant? I'm gonna start calling it Horsechefant.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

http://36.media.tumblr.com/caf0f1036...qgylbb_500.png
(Yes, that is Haurchefant.)

Also, can we start calling the ixion-centaur-thing Horsechefant? I'm gonna start calling it Horsechefant.

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The Ixion-Haurchefant/ascian resurrection theories have amassed enough popularity on social media, might as well give the most heart wrenching one a cute name like Horsechefant lol

Although the vast majority of us would ugly cry if we had to put him down.

I am getting kind of sick of all the Song of Ice and Fire references in this game. Fine series of books/shows but come on, already.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Inb4 more Haurchefant resurrection theories.

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/draws a deep breath....


No I don't really think he's coming back unless it is as Ixion or an Ascian puppet (we know what they can do with fresh corpses). Coming back to life for realsies is unlikely....sort of.

I don't think SE really planned for this character to skyrocket in popularity like this.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

I don't think SE really planned for [Haurchefant] to skyrocket in popularity like this.

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I get the feeling they didn't (he only had a short series of quests in 2.0's MSQ), but the fact is after asking the Warrior of Light for a small favor he's nothing but friendly and enthusiastic. Compared to the rest of the Warrior of Light's "friends," he treats you more like a person than a tool - your alliance with the Scions was done mostly because they thought you would be a useful asset to the organization (and thus the realm), not because they actually liked you, and the Grand Company leaders were similar. You may have become friends over time, but it was largely an alliance of convenience (for them) that could have played out like my reaction to the average episode of Dora the Explorer.

Local Archon: "You wanna join the Scions of the Seventh Dawn and help protect the realm?"
Warrior of Light: "Not really...?"
Local Archon: "Great! Meet me at the Waking Sands in Vesper Bay, Western Thanalan!"

Compare to Haurchefant, who asks you a (relatively) small favor he just can't do because of his station and is eternally and genuinely grateful for it. Even if he is more than a little flamboyant, especially in the Japanese dialogue.

That said, I do wish they'd stop laying him on quite so thick.