Proposal: HQ mat-to-HQ mat conversion of 100%

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Originally Posted by Solipse

At one point I had about 50 mil sitting in my bank.
I don't NEED to do botany or mining.
Gathering jobs have nothing at all to do with crafting. Zip. Nada. Zilch. If you think gathering should have an effect on crafting, you are living in dreamland. They're not even in the same class categories.

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Oh to save these gems for posterity and see your face in the future. Look around. This ain't a bubble economy any more. A carpenter and alchemist with botany outright kicks your ass and runs circles around you. The ONLY reason you EVER amounted to anything is because you had an early level spread on those who did gather at the start. Now they've all grown up and are essentially better versions of you. I've done it to a ton of BS and GS'ers who did the same thing you did. They rode the bubble, made their early millions, then RAGED when I came right up behind them and steamrolled them with HQ mat support that they ran out of.

Your warehouse will run dry. People will stop giving you materials. Without access to mats, your quality is poor. Your income is poor. And you spiral to obscurity. Just another R50 crafter without any production value.

Free ride's over son. You'd best get to gathering, because no gatherer's going to give you so much as a maple log with that kind of attitude.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Well, then we can agree to disagree there. We think there's a small difference that's potentially worth the time invested. You don't. That's fine.

Anyway - how are you attempting to make Steel Mortars, anyway? That's an Armorer synth, and you're a Blacksmith.

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Our shell has R50's of every craft pretty much. Our alch would like a mortar. Our Glads who are farming for Aeolian brimstone give me bomb ashes. I make as HQ a steel product as I can and make steel tools for the shell with it. That would include making steel ingots for the mortar.

So when you think about making a steel mortar...the lion's share of the work is getting HQ steel ingots, which is blacksmithing. Not so much armorer that makes the final product.

Actually the lion's share is the battlecrafters hauling that stupid bomb ash. Man I wish bone ash was an alternative synth.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Oh to save these gems for posterity and see your face in the future. Look around. This ain't a bubble economy any more. A carpenter and alchemist with botany outright kicks your ass and runs circles around you. The ONLY reason you EVER amounted to anything is because you had an early level spread on those who did gather at the start. Now they've all grown up and are essentially better versions of you. I've done it to a ton of BS and GS'ers who did the same thing you did. They rode the bubble, made their early millions, then RAGED when I came right up behind them and steamrolled them with HQ mat support that they ran out of.

Your warehouse will run dry. People will stop giving you materials. Without access to mats, your quality is poor. Your income is poor. And you spiral to obscurity. Just another R50 crafter without any production value.

Free ride's over son. You'd best get to gathering, because no gatherer's going to give you so much as a maple log with that kind of attitude.

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No need for the negative attitude there, this is a community game. You two are on different servers and you cant observe each other directly, but no one gets two rank 50 crafts in 6 months without some friends.

Just like any other linkshell, we all work together to rank up our crafters, and I'm sure his is no different. I also don't think that acquiring HQ mats is a problem for him since he probably has lots of LS mates who are high rank Botanists as well. Even if he didn't have any close Botanist friends, money and barter talks, so he'll always be able to find a seller for the right price.

Your predictions of his downfall are a bit premature, methinks.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Our shell has R50's of every craft pretty much. Our alch would like a mortar.

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Since you feel that way, have you suggested to him that it's not worth it because it won't make a lick of difference, in your opinion? What does he respond?

You think +1 is the same as +3, so perhaps you should let him know that and concentrate your attention to other contracts which would be much more useful.

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Originally Posted by Solipse

What a lackluster, boring, blah and historically disproven argument you've dredged up, there.

"I have 1000 dollars. If I get an extra dollar, it's not much different than what I have now, so what's the point. Even if that happens a million more times, each extra dollar isn't worth much more than the one before it, so who cares."

It's the classic heap paradox, and you're just as wrong for arguing it as Eubulides was 2000+ years ago.

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Says the guy with an incredibly gimp subjob, how does that work? You're like a Sam with a R10 war sub, man. What are you thinking pulling this "I'ma be the best" crap when you're clearly not even close and scream that you don't need to be?

Carpenter AND alchemist and you don't see the value of levelling BOTANY to improve your crafts?
Hoo boy.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Says the guy with an incredibly gimp subjob, how does that work?

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Carpenter AND alchemist and you don't see the value of levelling BOTANY to improve your crafts?
Hoo boy.

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But...Botany is not a subjob of Carpentry or Alchemy. It's not even in the same discipline. Botany has no skills that he can equip as a CRP or ALC.

If you're talking about mats acquisition, well, as long as he has people to farm for him, or money to buy mats, he'll get as much as he wants. Not that hard to do with 50 million gil in the bank.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Since you feel that way, have you suggested to him that it's not worth it because it won't make a lick of difference, in your opinion? What does he respond? You think +1 is the same as +3, so perhaps you should let him know that and concentrate your attention to other contracts which would be much more useful.

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No, we'll give it a shot. I can make enough steel for a +1. Maybe a +2. I've already made all the shell +1 versions of any steel piece but that, and every +1 version of all crafting tools but that darn alembic for which I'm making the HQ iron and silver nuggets IIRC.

There's nothing left to do as far as I'm concerned, but to shoot for the impossible. If the bomb ash keeps coming, I'll do it.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

But...Botany is not a subjob of Carpentry or Alchemy. It's not even in the same discipline. Botany has no skills that he can equip as a CRP or ALC.

If you're talking about mats acquisition, well, as long as he has people to farm for him, or money to buy mats, he'll get as much as he wants. Not that hard to do with 50 million gil in the bank.

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Outside the box, dude. A subjob helps you be better at your job. There is no better subjob for alchemy and carpentry than botanist. No other craft is going to make as big a difference as you, yourself, having control over your own quality materials. Look at my signature. Do you not think I would know how much having my own miner augments my two smiths?

At some point a crafter needs to be their own crafter and not a leech. I hope he's paying these gatherers what they're worth, because they're 80% of his worth in this economy.

50 million gil wouldn't buy you half of my HQ ore reserves.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Outside the box, dude. A subjob helps you be better at your job. There is no better subjob for alchemy and carpentry than botanist. No other craft is going to make as big a difference as you, yourself, having control over your own quality materials. Look at my signature. Do you not think I would know how much having my own miner augments my two smiths?

At some point a crafter needs to be their own crafter and not a leech. I hope he's paying these gatherers what they're worth, because they're 80% of his worth in this economy.

50 million gil wouldn't buy you half of my HQ ore reserves.

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Well, if his server is anything like mine, he probably doesn't need to be a Botanist himself since there are more than enough friends or sellers to supply him with all the mats he'll need.

Why bother ranking up Botanist if he can get all the mats he needs anyway?

50 million gil might not buy half of your reserves, but there are multiple gatherers per server, and there's always someone around who will cut a deal.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Well, if his server is anything like mine, he probably doesn't need to be a Botanist himself since there are more than enough friends or sellers to supply him with all the mats he'll need.

Why bother ranking up Botanist if he can get all the mats he needs anyway?

50 million gil might not buy half of your reserves, but there are multiple gatherers per server, and there's always someone around who will cut a deal.

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Not any more. You're talking as if this is october. Again, this is not a bubble economy where several miners and botanists are levelling for the hell of it and need someone to dump mats on and clean their inventory. Gatherers now have their own agendas and plans. Their own goals. They don't go out there for two hours to get mats for YOU.

We don't have shell gatherers that we keep under our thumbs as slaves in our shell, sorry. We have shell battlecrafters and crafters who gather for specific reasons. All of us are smart enough to choose the gathering jobs that help our crafts. We give cross-class gathering mats to shellmembers for free, not primary mats. If you think you're going to be able to ride your shell's production forever as a crafter...well...nice knowin ya. The synths are only going to get harder. The mats more expensive. The gathering more difficult and the gatherers more rare.

This isn't october. There is no such thing as a good gatherer who gives stuff away to crafters who sit in town. You have nothing to offer them.

Trust me. Any gatherer worth their salt knows they're worth more than you are as a crafter. I know.