Normal/Savage Alexander complaint

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Originally Posted by Miscreant

If they had just made Law gear i190 and us not needing an Alexander Normal clear to do Savage we wouldn't have had the choice over whether we spoil Savage's fights with normal or not, but that's retrospect for you.

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If they had made upgraded law gear and alexander normal gear the same ilevel, noone would run normal more than once. Which would result in people that don't do it right away have less chance of actually clearing it...
Having it better creates incentive for people to actually do it more than once.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

If they had made upgraded law gear and alexander normal gear the same ilevel, noone would run normal more than once. Which would result in people that don't do it right away have less chance of actually clearing it...
Having it better creates incentive for people to actually do it more than once.

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Thats how Eso and Savage gear works now, both are i210, doesn't any different to make Law Tome gear match Alexander Normal gear. But this has already been and gone now.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

40 man raiding was awful, why on Earth would you want 72 people?

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Speak for yourself, 40 man raiding was glorious. So much more epic than the theme park fights we get now.

72 might be a little much though.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

That's what the top tier gear drops are for, unless I am mistaken.

Why? So you can be a special snowflake (to quote the usual Forum response)? Seriously though, why do you think you should get some special story elements all to yourself, even on a timed exclusivity, when you are already being rewarded with gear that those other players will likely never see, except on someone else.

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i'm not even on that top end and because they deserve it and they earned it.

the gear doesn't always drop and the gear isn't that special. the stats are on the same level as Eso stuff which everyone will get to upgrade in 3.1, the look is the same as the story content, except you can change the color. there's more to the game than just loot. why are you making everything about loot?

you value loot way too much if you think the most skilled players rewarded with only loot is enough.

why do you feel entitled to all of the story content at the same time as people who obviously put in much more effort? i didn't even suggest to deny anyone content, even slowing it downs bother you cause you didn't put in the effort? who is really the entitled one here? who is really the one obsessing over gear?

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Saying "everybody else can wait to the next patch for the story mode" about some content in a story driven game sounds pretty entitled, especially as you are clearly rewarded with the raid gear and additional achievement/titles in game. If the story is completely optional and has no bearing on the main story, then it's less of an issue to me, but if the story ties into the main story line, it should never be gated by real raid content.

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the story is completely optional. the Alex story is not part of the main story line and neither was Coil, neither has any bearing on the main storyline. so you're agreeing it is less of an issue?

Eh... I'm one of the people progressing savage (on A3S atm) and gear isn't a big deal to me. I get it to help progress -- that's it.

I raid for the excitement of the clears. Because I had to farm story mode at first, it made savage less exciting to me. I'm not asking for any sort of change in future content, just sharing my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

Speak for yourself, 40 man raiding was glorious. So much more epic than the theme park fights we get now.

72 might be a little much though.

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When done properly, they were great. Setting them up and maintaining them was horrible as **** though, regardless of having a decent group or not. If people have trouble setting up 8 here, hoo boy...

If you were not in a position of authority for the guild/LS/FC/whatever in actually organizing the raid setup and planning, it wasn't a big deal to experience lol. Mindless mayhem of large groups was fun though, in general. FFXI Dynamis, though requiring specific setups and group responsibilities, was a good example of large groups having fun. It wasn't TOO bad to organize it, but you still encountered a lot of facepalm moments, like key roles having players not be able to enter because they forgot that they did it earlier, all the while the rest of the raid had already entered but can't do much because you're missing tanks/heals/CC responsible players.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

the gear doesn't always drop and the gear isn't that special. the stats are on the same level as Eso stuff which everyone will get to upgrade in 3.1, the look is the same as the story content, except you can change the color. there's more to the game than just loot. why are you making everything about loot?

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I'm not, every raider I have ever met on the other hand has made it clear that it's about loot. The message received loud and clear on many, many occasions is that they do it for the gear. You've been here long enough to remember all the discussions about Savage coil, it boiled down to no new drops = no reason to do it.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

you value loot way too much if you think the most skilled players rewarded with only loot is enough.

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Perhaps you should read my post again, I believe I referenced dedicated teams such as BG in the context of them doing a savage mode Alex whether or not it had better gear drops. The point being that those dedicated and skilled players do it for the challenge, to beat the challenge, to them the gear is nothing more than a means to an end.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

why do you feel entitled to all of the story content at the same time as people who obviously put in much more effort?

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I paid for that story as much as you did, so why should I not get it? Placing story elements behind top tier raids in a story based, paid subscription MMORPG is a poor way to do business and screws over the majority of players in the game. I think most would recognize that those players will never set foot in the top tier raid content.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

i didn't even suggest to deny anyone content, even slowing it downs bother you cause you didn't put in the effort?

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Slowing it down? If it's gated behind savage mode Alexander, it's unlikely anyone but raiders will ever see it; just as the only way 80+% (this is a guesstimate) of the players will ever see the Coil story elements is via You Tube.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

who is really the entitled one here? who is really the one obsessing over gear?

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In order, you are and raiders obsess over gear.

Good god, one look at my Lodestone should tell you that I am most certainly not gear obsessed.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

the story is completely optional. the Alex story is not part of the main story line and neither was Coil, neither has any bearing on the main storyline. so you're agreeing it is less of an issue?

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Shall I quote my own post?

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Saying "everybody else can wait to the next patch for the story mode" about some content in a story driven game sounds pretty entitled, especially as you are clearly rewarded with the raid gear and additional achievement/titles in game. If the story is completely optional and has no bearing on the main story, then it's less of an issue to me, but if the story ties into the main story line, it should never be gated by real raid content.

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As I said in my quoted remarks, if the story elements are not part of, and do not relate to, the main story, and are completely optional, then yes it is less of a problem, though it is still problematic IMHO.

You know, it's really funny to me, for nearly two years the arguments over raid content centered around raiders being pissed off because it was possible to gear up to near equivalents of their Allagan and High Allagan gear through alternate means a patch or two after whichever part of coil was released. The discussion revolved around how freaking important it was to raiders to have gear in the raid being unique to them and only available to them. That's the context here. But now, it seems that the argument has morphed into the gear being unimportant? And now it's the story you really desire? Or perhaps you want the gear and the story?

I don't give two craps about raiding gear, I don't raid. I do care about the story and lore in the game. Gating story and/or lore behind difficult content (difficult enough to guarantee most players will never experience it) does not serve the audience of the game. But now, based on your line of argument it seems that actually it's not about the gear, it's about raiders having their own segment of content that is exclusively theirs unless it's nerfed at some point in the future, by which time no one will be running it anyway. You are the one wanting to maintain exclusivity of content to a specific group. I am the one arguing for story elements to be accessible to all.

My gut feeling on this is it has to do with the loot system. If you compare it to Binding Coil or CT, players aren't running the bosses in succession, but rather doing four of the same boss in a row. It's less interesting because the encounters run in a given hour are less varied. Additionally, I think some people try taking pot shots at getting loot in PUGs for Alexander, which is the worst possible idea for gearing up unless the player is just starting Alex.

I experienced burn out on Alex over a month ago, which resulted in the leveling of my brand new ninja character. I'm not really too motivated to grind much of anything at the moment.

I don't personally care about story or exclusivity. The only thing that I care about related to this suggestion is that I had to farm normal. I don't mind that there is a normal mode, but savage would have been much more fun if when I went in I didn't already have the basics of the fight down. The best analogy for how I feel about the normal/savage as implemented would be if SE released LotA as it was. Then later, instead of releasing ST they released LotA II which had all the same fights except each boss had one or two mechanics tweaked. In that situation, I bet most people would be upset too.

The reason I suggested swapping the order of releases is because it keeps the same amount of content for everyone, while giving more variety to those who are raiding.

If we must have a normal mode for people who think they can't raid then I'd prefer savage come out first, then the easier mode for catch up. Story isn't as big of an issue it's more the fact that half the fight is pretty much spoiled and you know which bosses are coming up, takes away from the excitement of progression. I think there's still a lot of room for improvement with the raids in general though but that's another thing altogether.