Getting refused to EX groups as a DRK

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Originally Posted by Ampheni

Those guys are just complete idiots, or the DRKs they met are simply BAD.

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While I agree that all the Current Ex Content is 100% doable with a DRK MT, OT or even full DRK MT+OT Party, the real reason behind it remains the same.
No one wants to use a rusty old bicycle to go from point A to point B, if they can use a nice fresh new one at the same price. Both will get you there, they may even do it in the same time, but with one you are working much harder than the other. Why work harder for the same thing, if you do not have to.

Can you clear the EXs with a DRK? Yes.
Is it easier with an equally skilled WAR or PLD? Yes
Is it easier to find an equally skilled PLD or WAR? Yes
Is it still easier with a less skilled PLD or WAR ? Probably

So basically, many things are stacked against you.

... I am sad to say that I'm currently leveling my 50 War to 60 as we speak.

the whole point is that ppl get discouraged or excluded from content where it doesn't matter if you are a PLD, WAR or DRK. If you are a SMN or BLM. IF you have a BRD or MCH. Or run with 4 NINs.

Of course optimal PT setup given the ppl behind the jobs know how to play will matter when it comes to world first progression during Alex-Savage. Ppl will likely go with PLD, WAR, WHM, SCH, MNK, SMN, and the other 2 DDs depend on if ppl need TP regen or not. might even shoot for more casters as both are fine with MP now. And once you get better gear it starts to matter less and less.

And for everything else: Who cares? It's the actual player that fails and not the job. DRK is far from being an 2.0 WAR.

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Originally Posted by Slappah

Or....they balance encounters with tank dps in mind because....spoiler alert: tanks do damage too

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As others have replied before me, I'm not saying the tank's DPS isn't important. But if this is becoming a IMPORTANT factor in meeting a -DPS- check, then you need to take a hard look at the setup and the players. Delorean pretty much explained the point that I was trying to get across in a much smaller straightforward version.

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

I about to give up and level up my warrior. :-/ I shouldn't have jumped on the DRK bandwagon and stayed warrior. I told myself it wasn't gonna be a Death Knight from WoW and be OP when released but somehow I still made one and made it 60 first over my warrior. :-/

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I'm on same situation right now, currently DRK lvl 57 but if this goes on and if there are no big changes to this class this coming patch, I'll quit and play my WHM or Warrior. Feels like a waste of time? Yes but hopefully we will get some changes to be more competitive because currently we are the worst tank of the three and its really a shame because I find PLD and WAR really boring.

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Originally Posted by Daerthalus

So basically, many things are stacked against you.

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Yeah, like a community full of players that can't play the game and have to find excuses for why it is okay that they are bad.

I was doing a Bis EX last night and the DPS couldn't pass the DPS check and the other tank was playing like they were colorblind. no one was paying attention, no one was listening. Well not no one, but not enough.

running two DRK was the absolute least of that group's worries considering that most of the people in there were overgeared for it. Getting hit by tornados, dying to snake debuffs, letting me die on tank swap etc. etc. the list goes on and on

and it's the exact same for anyone else that is spewing any of this crap.

When in with my static lol

My set up was

Paladin
Dark knight (me)

Double scholar

Machinist
Dragoon
Black Mage
Monk

And we were able to kill the 2 big dragon boss thingy and afk for 5 Sec lol and also kill all 3 adds and afk dance around really thou is all about the dps don't blame the tanks

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Originally Posted by Delorean

Yeah, like a community full of players that can't play the game and have to find excuses for why it is okay that they are bad.

I was doing a Bis EX last night and the DPS couldn't pass the DPS check and the other tank was playing like they were colorblind. no one was paying attention, no one was listening. Well not no one, but not enough.

running two DRK was the absolute least of that group's worries considering that most of the people in there were overgeared for it. Getting hit by tornados, dying to snake debuffs, letting me die on tank swap etc. etc. the list goes on and on

and it's the exact same for anyone else that is spewing any of this crap.

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We get it, you can play the class decently. So can I and many other people on this forum. But it doesn't change the fact that DRK is objectively worse than all the other tanks to a sizeable degree, and that other people are using it as an excuse (justifiably so or not, that is irrelevant) to avoid playing with us entirely.

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Originally Posted by Kiteless

We get it, you can play the class decently. So can I and many other people on this forum. But it doesn't change the fact that DRK is objectively worse than all the other tanks to a sizeable degree, and that other people are using it as an excuse (justifiably so or not, that is irrelevant) to avoid playing with us entirely.

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The funny thing about this is that DRK DPS isn't bad at all. While yes, Warrior can push some numbers, no doubt about that, they have the tools to do so. But no one bats an eye when it comes to Paladin DPS. While I cannot say personally myself how they are now, I am informed that DRK come on top over them. The issue isn't DRK's DPS(It's a freaking tank, it's the last thing you're worried about), it's their survivability kit and THAT wasn't even what's being considered. Maybe we should start Running WAR/DRK so we can meet DPS checks? What? No? Why not? Oh right. :x

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

Getting refused to get into group with bismarck EX is getting annoying due to me being a DRK.

(etc.)

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I hear you. Warrior was like that in 2.0. I used to have a hard time getting into Titan groups because "You can't tank as well as a Paladin and you can't do as much damage as another DPS." Nevermind that it is still entirely possible to do the raids and content with the "less optimal" classes. Now the tides have turned and while I am quite happy that my main class is where it is, I still find the whole meta gaming gets taken way too far. It is not about fun, it's about being greedy about loot. And of course I like loot, but the focus of the game needs to be fun with a character you like to play.

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Originally Posted by Lorielle

The funny thing about this is that DRK DPS isn't bad at all. While yes, Warrior can push some numbers, no doubt about that, they have the tools to do so. But no one bats an eye when it comes to Paladin DPS. While I cannot say personally myself how they are now, I am informed that DRK come on top over them. The issue isn't DRK's DPS(It's a freaking tank, it's the last thing you're worried about), it's their survivability kit and THAT wasn't even what's being considered. Maybe we should start Running WAR/DRK so we can meet DPS checks? What? No? Why not? Oh right. :x

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No, DRK actually ends up having lower DPS than PLD after about 2 minutes of fighting (as an OT, about 2 and a half as MT), thanks to its woeful TP issues, and is a far cry from what WAR is capable regardless. However, it is worth noting DRK's weak DPS when considered with its poor defensive abilities, since it helps to establish the fact that DRK is a class that is almost completely devoid of any real strengths outside of AoE enmity generation (which the other tanks have never had a problem with anyway).