DPS display could easily be solved with a system already in game.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

I understand why you want the meter. And yes it would accomplish the things you want.

But I just disagree with it. And having the meter on a dummy would still be an improvement over no meter at all.

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Disagreeing because "you will use dps meters to kick" is an incredibly black and white statement, that's why we're butting heads a bit. I mean dps typically isn't even an issue when we're talking 4 man content or CT unless it's blatantly obvious that they're auto attack afking or standing idle, there's more than enough buffer from the rest of the group to make up for it (although this also because 4 man dungeons are really undertuned on release).

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

I hope that, if Camp #1 gets their wish, that it leads to improvement of DPS so that less people from Camp #2 feel the need to be able to kick others for their DPS. As long as DPS checks exist in the game, it's going to be a problem if you're the guy causing the failure of those checks or other people are being forced to go above and beyond to carry you through it.

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Camp 1 only really works when other people are willing to share. Seeing your own number more often than not really offers no context depending on the fight and situation. How would you know your 200 dps is bad? That "public shaming" needs to happen at some point to some degree when it comes to dps comparison. Camp 2 is honestly going to happen no matter what. You already have people that kick for seeing a 100 soldiery tag, and I've gotten kicked out of a ramuh party for pointing out that the other bard wasn't doing his job with baiting... Some people out there really habe absurd standards when it comes to dpsing, mine is just "pull your weight" or "play your class properly" in my farm parties. Giving me a meter isn't really giving me more ammo to kick those sort of players because I can see it anyway.

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Originally Posted by Asierid

So let's hold back the game because people don't want their feelings hurt?

Boo hoo. Step up and take advice and we wouldn't even be having this discussion. There are people out there that want to better themselves and theorycraft rotations and DPS numbers within a raid, but those things cannot even be discussed because SE took the easy way out and is banning everyone discussing numbers to begin with.

Everyone else is being punished because some (few) people cannot handle being called out by some random asshole over the internet. Give me a break. Don't half ass the parser. Give us one that works with the group/raid, or don't even do it and hide behind the pathetic "drama" excuse like they always do when this comes up. There is no way around it.

Do your job right, or don't do it at all.

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the 1% lol, so many things wrong with this line of thinking.

A solution that helps everyone is better than something that alienates the player base.

Also all the end game raiding in this game literally = mechanics > than all

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Disagreeing because "you will use dps meters to kick" is an incredibly black and white statement, that's why we're butting heads a bit. I mean dps typically isn't even an issue when we're talking 4 man content or CT unless it's blatantly obvious that they're auto attack afking or standing idle, there's more than enough buffer from the rest of the group to make up for it (although this also because 4 man dungeons are really undertuned on release).

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I am not saying you would use it soley for that. But maybe Asierid would.

Again if you saw your own dps, and were in a group of people you raid with consistantly you can just tell each other your numbers.

I agree with you that something will eventually happen. I just think phasing it in would be better than implementing it where you can see everyone's number.
And then seeing how that improves or does not improve player quality.

What if to start, they let you see everyone's dps on a training dummy. Then at least you could account for buffs, ect.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

the 1% lol, so many things wrong with this line of thinking.

A solution that helps everyone is better than something that alienates the player base.

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There is no solution that helps everyone.

A solo parser only helps the person using it. You don't know if that person is telling the truth or not (I do 300 DPS rite? l0l). It takes the trolling that already goes on in PF and makes it worse.

So no, your "fix" does not fix anything. This is like giving the passenger seat in the car their own steering wheel that controls the right side because they "are bored while driving". Let them discuss the directions right? It makes no sense and doesn't fix anything at all.

The "solution" would be to listen to the player base and just put one in and let everyone else sort it out. If you can't even do the content's level of DPS, you shouldn't even be there to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Ghasto

Why don't you petition SE to also remove the party list from showing to anyone but the healers so nobody knows that they're not healing? or hide the enmity list from anyone who is not a tank?

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Honestly, as a WHM main, people would know if I'm doing my job correctly by if they die or not, with or without the party window. Same for tank - people don't need anything at all to know whether or not they are holding mob aggro or not. For both tank and healer, failure or success is clearly present just by the fight itself and by either wiping or clearing. DPS, however, can just slide by with no one knowing how well they are doing or not doing, apart from how fast or slow things die (or enrage timers - but even then, we can't know which dps is pulling their weight).

I think it a little unfair that I can be judged by how well I heal or tank with no meter or list needed whatsoever, but dps don't need to be held equally accountable. For this reason alone I'd support in game parsers -- for equality sake ^^

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Originally Posted by MythToken

the 1% lol, so many things wrong with this line of thinking.

A solution that helps everyone is better than something that alienates the player base.

Also all the end game raiding in this game literally = mechanics > than all

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DPS is just as important as mechanics.
Watch any of the world first t12 or t13 clears and see how close they cut it to enrage, even groups long after the first clears beat those fights as enrage was happening, DPS is very important, the balance is maximising DPS while doing mechanics.
If a job that is meant to be doing damage is not doing damage then they do not belong in the raid.

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Originally Posted by Asierid

There is no solution that helps everyone.

A solo parser only helps the person using it. You don't know if that person is telling the truth or not (I do 300 DPS rite? l0l). It takes the trolling that already goes on in PF and makes it worse.

So no, your "fix" does not fix anything. This is like giving the passenger seat in the car their own steering wheel that controls the right side because they "are bored while driving". Let them discuss the directions right? It makes no sense and doesn't fix anything at all.

The "solution" would be to listen to the player base and just put one in and let everyone else sort it out. If you can't even do the content's level of DPS, you shouldn't even be there to begin with.

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Do you even PF bro?

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Originally Posted by MythToken

I am not saying you would use it soley for that. But maybe Asierid would.

Again if you saw your own dps, and were in a group of people you raid with consistantly you can just tell each other your numbers.

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Using a check with your static is a pretty small scenario though. My side is, I don't want to defend people who do poorly as their role as dps. Implementing almost anything into this game is a double edged sword as far as the community is concerned (lock outs and vote kick for example).

And how would I be using it differently from Asieird if I used a dps meter to kick people for doing poor dps?

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Originally Posted by MythToken

Also all the end game raiding in this game literally = mechanics > than all

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I also disagree with this, at least for FCoB. It may have been true with SCoB (which is why I hate those encounters), but FCoB is pressing your party to do their jobs well. Seeing more than 5 bennus or four megaflares in phase 1 T13 when we have 10% echo is incredibly frustrating, seeing healers who can't catch preys or mitigate me for flatten makes me go "AAAAAH!!!!"

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Originally Posted by Ghasto

DPS is just as important as mechanics.
Watch any of the world first t12 or t13 clears and see how close they cut it to enrage, even groups long after the first clears beat those fights as enrage was happening, DPS is very important, the balance is maximising DPS while doing mechanics.
If a job that is meant to be doing damage is not doing damage then they do not belong in the raid.

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Dude World firsts are because they are at the bare minimum gear requirements that dps matters. After that its way easier to hit enrages/dps checks.

But again to my point, anyone in a World First raid group, isn't going to lie about their dps numbers to their group, if they could see their own dps. So again seeing only your own dps would still work.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Using a check with your static is a pretty small scenario though. My side is, I don't want to defend people who do poorly as their role as dps. Implementing almost anything into this game is a double edged sword as far as the community is concerned (lock outs and vote kick for example).

And how would I be using it differently from Asieird if I used a dps meter to kick people for doing poor dps?

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Like you said, you don't need a meter to kick for poor dps, you can tell by rotations ect. My point being that the community as a whole would suffer from people who would abuse a feature we don't need. And no one would learn from it. I am not implying you would abuse it, and that it isn't useful. I just disagree with implementing it before personal dps meters.