Why Speed Pulls?

When I get in a dungeon I expect to be paired with people who like that dungeon, just like I did, or I wouldn't have queued for it. It didn't seem such an odd thought until I came to the forums and read that people keep doing stuff they don't enjoy over and over.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

When I get in a dungeon I expect to be paired with people who like that dungeon, just like I did, or I wouldn't have queued for it. It didn't seem such an odd thought until I came to the forums and read that people keep doing stuff they don't enjoy over and over.

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There are several dungeons I would never run for enjoyment purposes but do so out of necessity for Relic requirements, Roulette bonus, etc... These dungeons are not fun for me but the reward for completion is.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

When I get in a dungeon I expect to be paired with people who like that dungeon, just like I did, or I wouldn't have queued for it. It didn't seem such an odd thought until I came to the forums and read that people keep doing stuff they don't enjoy over and over.

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Come on man, you know better. Players don't queue for specific dungeons 90% of the time (unless they need to because of atma books/zodiac drops/whatever), they just get thrown into stuff by duty roulette. I'm not pretending there aren't more players like you that queue for specific dungeons just becuase they enjoy them, I'm just saying their number is so small that you cannot expect to have ppl queuing for that reason in your duty.

Even on the first day of new content, people will base their decisions on the composition of the group whether to pull everything and their moms in 1 big ball. If you do a mass pull with 2 melees + a SCH, good luck to you; even a WHM's holy spam isn't going to save you, especially in the newer instances with mobs that have a much higher HP pool. However, if you have 2 BLM's, well... I think you get the point.

More to the point of why people speed run in general: People have other things to do either in game or IRL. They don't want to spend more than 30mins of their time spamming the same button sets in a dungeon. It gets repetitive and boring, especailly in dungeons that don't really require that much thinking; they aren't coil. Not to mention people who need to spam them for Poet cap/ current relic quests. I don't want to see someone be in the news for gouging their eye out over FF.

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Originally Posted by MrCookTM

I'm not pretending there aren't more players like you that queue for specific dungeons just becuase they enjoy them

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Oh, I have ulterior motives for running a dungeon too, but I always make sure to end up in an instance that I will enjoy. I am currently leveling my desynth and need the loot from 2.2 and 2.3 dungeons, but I never queue for Halatali and Stone Vigil because I am sick of them. And if I need to get in a dungeon that I do not like for Relic purposes (that's pretty much the only time where you have no other options), I make sure to go with at least 1-2 people I know so I can spare randoms my sucky attitude because I am not enjoying myself. I wouldn't rush others just because I don't wanna be there.

I like to enjoy dungeons to their fullest (like the new Wanderer's Palace <3) but that doesn't mean that we should slow down or speed up. Depending on party composition in the DF it can go really slow e.g two melee or extremely fast with Black mages. And finally it's up to the tank to pull a lot or pull little.

So I don't really mind how people get their kicks in game (I don't even judge what certain people do on certain rp servers >.>), but I just want to point out one specific idea that keeps recurring in this thread and others like it: the "I like slow pulls because I enjoy the dungeon" mentality. There's nothing really wrong with it, except that you're assuming I'm not having fun with large pulls. Large pulls are more efficient, but that doesn't mean efficiency is 100% of why people do them. I find them much more fun and engaging, personally.

To reiterate, it's perfectly fine if you don't enjoy the game the same way I do, but please don't assume that just because I like big pulls I must be some sort of brain-dead tome-bot.

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Originally Posted by Malevicton

Large pulls are more efficient

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This is only true if the group can handle the pull size. Yesterday, during duty expert, playing as my WHM i103, tank WAR i120ish, DPS were a BRD i115ish and NIN about i110ish. The tank was doing large pulls.
AoE burn is not sufficient in this group for large pulls. My healer just isn't strong enough to keep up with pulls that size and the NIN did not seem to understand how to dodge attacks.
We suffered two complete wipes on trash, and I had raise the NIN at least 3 other times during the run. This constant attention needing to be paid to a DPS, meant the tank was getting far too low on health on a repeated basis. Did the tank slow down? Nope, just kept pulling and pulling.

It was a very inefficient run as a result. The saving grace was no one was bickering in the chat. We all just endured and moved on with life.

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but please don't assume that just because I like big pulls I must be some sort of brain-dead tome-bot.

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Just like people assume that it means slowing down the group if you won't pull an entire set of trash (12 mobs) instead of 6 mobs. The difference is so slim in time gained that it doesn't even justify efficiency. If you like dancing? Sure. But please don't assume that just because I don't like to pull 12 mobs at a time that I'm some kind of casual brain-dead slow puller bot.

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don't act like it will be useless shortly after release.

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No your right, it is not useless shortly after release, it is useless before it is even released, it's a game, what is so useful and productive about playing it other than having fun?

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To play content that isn't just killing 100 trash mobs.

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Too bad that's pretty much all you do in MMOs, grinding stuff and killing trash mobs and bosses. That's what you do even in coil. Why do you run dungeons to get poetics? To get geared and then do what? Run coil? If not, then explain.

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Originally Posted by Sareal

But hey, I get the point, I am a selfish **** who is literally "forcing" others into a slow run (clearly). For any future readers, know that the topic has fleshed out, and while I may not be the best at expressing what I want to express, insulting me won't stop me from crying about the real problem. If you think I am selfish because I am tired of seeing people try to impose their "Speed Running" pulls onto me I don't see why they wouldn't be any worse than me...except that I never actually went "WELP I WONT SPEED PULL CAUSE YOU ARE A ****" If it ever goes to the point of needing to deal with it like needing to deal with highschool drama I will simply leave and let them find a better tank who will speed pull better than me.

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Are we in agreement about what The Real Problem is?

We've been speedrunning dungeons since 1.0 because of the slot machine reward system. [large quantities of people who want reward] + [intermittent reward payout] = play that tends towards efficiency: we want to squeeze in as many rolls as we can in our limited playtime. It's a perfectly reasonable attitude. And let's not forget the unluckiest of us, who probably want to spend as little time as possible in the same dungeon we've run dozens of times already.

We all remember WP abuse and Mythflox, but Zodiac turned the whole thing up to 11. Tens of thousands of players are running each of the lv.50 dungeons an indefinite number of times. As someone who is also doing Zodiac, surely you can sympathize with the soul-crushing horror of RNG.

What I'm getting at is: if the party is willing and able to bullet through the dungeon and you're stonewalling them because "I dun wanna" then it is selfish of you under the circumstances. The Real Problem is not you or them, but if you're not earnestly trying to mitigate the effects of The Real Problem then you're exacerbating them--and that's gonna rile people up.

You don't have to give a shit because it's unenforceable, but I like to think there's a social contract when playing with others online. A little bit of I-don't-waste-your-time-you-don't-waste-mine kinda thing.