Please reconsider stance on blue mage

Everyone keeps saying "who cares if people get excluded? deal with it", but doesn't anyone remember how Warriors in 1.0 were the only tanks people wanted in the party and laughed at Paladins?

Or how about back in 2.0 where people would rage quit on Ifrit Hard because no one in the party was a Black Mage?

Yoshi will never put Blue Mage in the game because there were no Blue Mages in WoW.

Seriously though, Yoshi has long since been transparent that this was to be a hyper-simple, arcade'esque, theme park with anything that might require more than about 30 seconds to master gutted in favor of game complexity on par with playing Chutes and Ladders. Meh, it's working for them for the moment. They are getting an influx of players but how long will they stay...?

Wildstar took the clone WoW ideal to the max and they are already in deep doo doo only a month or so after launch. FFXIV isn't too far behind, we just have an IP with millions of lifelong fans that are more willing to look the other way.

I'm sorry Yosh but if you want longevity from XIV you are going to eventually have to put some more complex aspects into the game then 'grind this for 1,386,075 hours and pray to the RNG god' because people are getting reeeheeeheeeheeeheeeeally bored.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shadex

snip

---

Complexity should be in the content you engage in, not the mechanics of the job you play itself. Simplicity in game play mechanics means you can create more fun and complex fights.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shadex

Seriously though, Yoshi has long since been transparent that this was to be a hyper-simple, arcade'esque, theme park with anything that might require more than about 30 seconds to master gutted in favor of game complexity on par with playing Chutes and Ladders. Meh, it's working for them for the moment. They are getting an influx of players but how long will they stay...?

---

In terms of the simplicity in classes angle it's something that will become more pronounced as more classes are added to the game. It's true in XI you had a ton of classes, some of which were specialists, others were EXTREME specialists (Beastmaster comes to mind), some classes were dedicated supports, and this specialization/variety among classes sometimes led to exclusion.

The other side to that is FF XIV's jobs which are currently so mired in a sense of sameness that to me they barely feel distinguishable outside of visual effects at times. The two jobs with the biggest distinction among them in terms of actual role in party at this point are probably Scholar and White Mage in all honesty. I guess I have to reserve my judgement on what Ninja ends up playing like, but I'm not betting on it playing like a radical departure from the two melee DPS we already have in the game.

So pick your poison I guess. Do you take variety among classes with a side of potential exclusion or do you take balance among classes to the extreme where the classes almost literally end up being interchangeable parts with no thought put into it.

Up until a few months ago I honestly did not have a problem with the way this game's classes were progressing but with the advent of new jobs/classes on the horizon I honestly feel like SE needs to start rethinking the way party building or just "roles" work in general. There's nothing to look forward to with the addition of new classes if they're just going to be "X-Existing class" but with a handful of changes. It's the same reason Garuda Egi isn't exciting to use over Ifrit Egi.

There's only so far you can go with "roles" and party building. If you go too far in making jobs unique, you will end up with the problems that FFXI has (flavor of the month/year job). If you go too far in trying to maintain balance, you end up with the problem that WoW has (significant buffs and nerfs to jobs every so many patches). Humans in general will always seek to have the most efficient ways of doing things -- this also extends to MMOs. People will always want the most optimized DPS/Healing/Tanking scenario, and will shun anyone who attempts to upset the balance because the want to be a unique snowflake. This is why WAR was given so much crap and was revised to be more like PLD by patch 2.1.

To that extent, Blue Mage was never really optimal in any real, static scenario in Final Fantasy XI, but was used in very specific fights, where it was beneficial to have some of their unique spells to deal otherwise un-dealable damage.

For example, spell Cannonball on Tiamat while she was in the air. Since spells were considered as physical damage (unless specifically mentioned as magical or ranged damage), Cannonball made for a very special spell because not only could it be Sneak Attacked (allowing for 100% accuracy and critical hit), but it was also an ability that could be launched at [high] flying foes (basically only HNM dragons), despite itself not being a ranged attack. This allowed physical damage to be possible while Tiamat was in the air, an otherwise impossible feat due to Rangers and Corsairs being ineffectual ranged damage (outside of Quick Draw) while Black Mage damage was used almost exclusively until then.

You then had spells that gave exclusive effects to the Blue Mage alone, despite him being primarily a DPS, such as self haste, spikes spells, esuna, self healing, and so on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brine_Gildchaff

The problem isn't that it would be complex. The problem is that theorycrafters would quickly determine the "best set" and the elitist core would refuse to play with anyone who did not use that exact set. We already have a situation where people can vote-kick just because the tank refuses to do a speedrun, or the healer refuses to contribute DPS. Blue Mage would become all but unplayable unless players stuck to the "BiS" loadout. -That- is what Yoshida is trying to get across in what you quoted. It's the same reason that the elemental wheel was abolished; people would be forced into playing exactly as the rest of the raiding or even DF community demanded, and Yoshida does NOT want that sort of situation to arise any more than he can possibly prevent it.

---

There's always the possibility of having multiple viable options. Take a look at Diablo for example, there isn't 'one' cookie cutter set of abilities as you can't use all the skills at a time - it all depends on a person's preferred play-style.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crystallus

Op: Please explain how Blue Mage would work in FFXIV please?

Sincerely Curious.

---

Here is how it would work (and the reason that, as much as I loved 11's BLU, I hope it is never released)

LVL1: Generic_scimitar_wielding_spellsword

LVL30: (Quest NPC) "You sir can learn the powers of the blue mage! Your 1st task is to defeat the monstrous Snurble ravaging the countryside!" <go to X location in Y zone and Mega Snurble appears> /kills mega snurble and returns to quest NPC "I see you defeated the Mega Snurble and what is this!?! You acquired some of its power!!?!!!???! MARVELOUS" <you have gained the power of snurble static charge>

LVL35: ^^^^^ repeat

LVL40: ^^^^^

LVL45: ^^^^^^^^

lvl50: ^^^^^^^^^^



congratz on your blue mage with 5 monster learned skills through scripted fights. What an amazing class.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brine_Gildchaff

The problem isn't that it would be complex. The problem is that theorycrafters would quickly determine the "best set" and the elitist core would refuse to play with anyone who did not use that exact set. We already have a situation where people can vote-kick just because the tank refuses to do a speedrun, or the healer refuses to contribute DPS. Blue Mage would become all but unplayable unless players stuck to the "BiS" loadout. -That- is what Yoshida is trying to get across in what you quoted. It's the same reason that the elemental wheel was abolished; people would be forced into playing exactly as the rest of the raiding or even DF community demanded, and Yoshida does NOT want that sort of situation to arise any more than he can possibly prevent it.

---

This is the worst reasoning I have ever heard.. for ANY of your situations. (BLU or elemental wheel)

Because right now you can do whatever you want and be accepted right? Personally I play my BLM as a ice mage. Fire is for chumps.

So your saying having the illusion of choice is worse than no choice at all? ..............if you say so.

So to elaborate on the stance + hotbar idea...
Level 30 Chain Affinity: allows next two blue magic spells to combo.
Level 35 X Stance: allows the blue mage to cast dps spells learned via the lvl 35 job quest
Level 40 Y Stance: same as above but healer/support spells.
Level 45 Z Stance: same as above but tanky spells.
Level 50 Azure Lore: enhances the affect of all blue magic.
They'd still be a dps slot in df, but would have the flexibility of smn. The level 35-45 quests could have you travel to the ends of the world to learn attacks from five monsters per quest by getting hit by them because blu are masochistic like that :3

Another thing to add would be that blu wouldnt come from gla. Instead it would come via a new class that dual wields scimitar's that are paired as a set like rogue/ninjas weapons will be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zarzak

snip

---

People's main gripe is they want a traditional Blue Mage, and FFXIV is not the type of game that would cater well to the system. If they did however, it would have to sacrifice a lot of traditions to work in the game, similar to your idea above.

I am surprised that the biggest concern out of that quote is the Blue Mage issue.

I think the far bigger issue is that the current design is supposed to control all classes and power through GEAR. The game is so incredibly one dimensional and this just confirms the completely watered down vision they have.

Like they said- be glad they aren't putting in the Blue Mage... because they would just ruin it with this design.