Stop Raising Item Level and build foundation with Horizontal Progression first

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

While your not wrong. The reason is because WoW has systematically destroyed MMOs for the past 10 years or so by pandering to the lowest common denominator.

Also WoW's "success" can more be attributed to its successful marketing and being the "gateway" MMO (like gateway drug) and releasing rigt when parents started trusting the internet enough to let their kids use their credit cards to play an online game.

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Their retention rate is fine. They have Patch-Hoppers the same as here, but this idea that somehow WoW ruined mmos when it practically DEFINED then and KEEPS INNOVATING is ridiculous. I get it - you hate WoW, anything to do with WoW and you think that Final Fantasy can do no wrong. However, I cringe whenever I see someone act like that game is somehow "easybake oven" compared to this one. Feel free to link your Heroic Garrosh kill or your Brawler's Guild achievements or even your Arena rating.

This is a good game - I play it and enjoy it - but WoW is a freaking hard one at high levels of gameplay. There are a lot of good lessons there that SE could learn. They have already implemented some of them to the playerbase's collective delight. Look around you at some of the systems you are just now getting to enjoy. 90%+ of them had already been thought up, tested, implemented, and bugfixed somewhere else.

I'd rather see my character continue to grow in strength than having 15 other item choices thrown at me that swap one stat for another.

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

How will this fit in with FF14?

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How won't this fit in with FF14?

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Originally Posted by Brainberry

Seems like a complaint from people who just can't keep up with the new content thus falling behind in ilvl.

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Umm... wut?

The three new dungeons take a day to complete.
Syrcus Tower is 40m.
Second Coil takes the longest, but you just end up getting loot from one location, heck just 4 bosses.

The rest of the gear is gained from the same vendor who some how has Eorzeas supply of the only good loot besides High Allagan. This doesn't even scratch the problem that gear really has no interesting meaning besides ilvl and accuracy (the only meaningful stat).

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

As an old EQ player you should know better than this. Yes, while it's true content lasted longer in that game, it was by no means a horizontal progression. There were a myriad of cool items in EQ, however, that maintained a use years after it was released such as the Fungi Tunic or Cloak of Flames. Then you had all of the fluff right-click items that let you change your appearance (Inky mask, skeleton bracelet) or summon food and water, etc. There's really nothing like that in this game other than the minions which are more of a status symbol than anything else.

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Mmmm... Fungi Tunic is still used TODAY as a twink item and still sells for A LOT. CoF was used well into Luclin if not beyond, plus it was tradable so it was always worth a ton of pp. Items like the fungi tunic and the clicky masks were always hugely in demand, and kept old items relevant for years (literally...what...20 expansions later people are still camping the DE mask in Lower Guk).

The point is that the itemization is boring as HELL in this game. Nothing even gives the illusion that making choices on different pieces of similar iLVL gear matter a whole lot, besides accuracy for tanks and DPS.

Min/Maxing and theorycrafting blow-hards aside, crit/det/sksp/spsp is all whatever, it all absolutely pales in comparison to raw str/dex/mnd/int.

What we need is for accessories to no longer have primary stats on them, but instead an eclectic mix of secondary stats. Like Ifrit's Bangle of Striking or whatever would be +0str +5acc +60det, while Garuda's would be like +0str +10acc +10crit +10det +10sksp +3vit.

Something interesting, and MORE loot. Diablo it if you have to, randomize each base accessory with "Sparkling" Inferno Bangle of Fending that would be +0vit +25pry +2%HPregen +5pie, whereas the "Gleaming" Inferno Bangle of Fending would be +0vit +25pry +2%HPregen +5mnd. Then a 1% drop of "Fiery" Inferno Bangle that would be +20fire resist +15pry/crit/det/sksp/spsp/acc +3%HPregen +2vit/str/dex/mnd/pie/int.

Right now the only motivation I remotely have in terms of gearing is to increase my iLVL and keep my accur up for coil. Its not that I don't care about experimenting with different builds, its just that doing it is soooo boring that its tedius, there is no apparent specialization in items.

Then again...with this game only having 13 gear slots and the way it runs it might be too hard to implement this without making it too easy to exploit.

I dunno.../rant off. I have been playing P99 lately and it makes me miss the unique itemization...

ilvl = resume and application lol.
PF and DF will have a certain required "ilvl" to be able to be accepted into the party/ instance.
Then after getting in you are then assessed by ppl looking at your stats. High ilvl = brownie points as most ppl base their usefullness on ilvl.
Skill is left out of the equation as ppl assume you're either good or bad.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

Their retention rate is fine. They have Patch-Hoppers the same as here, but this idea that somehow WoW ruined mmos when it practically DEFINED then and KEEPS INNOVATING is ridiculous. I get it - you hate WoW, anything to do with WoW and you think that Final Fantasy can do no wrong. However, I cringe whenever I see someone act like that game is somehow "easybake oven" compared to this one. Feel free to link your Heroic Garrosh kill or your Brawler's Guild achievements or even your Arena rating.

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Go search the wide world of WoW and find how many raiding guilds have been around from MC - Garrosh. Then see how many of the people in those raid teams have been around from MC - Garrosh.

Defined what? MMOs were around for LONG before that game came out and made pandering to the lowest common denominator mainstream. "They don't want to play a MULTIPLAYER game? Oh poor them lets let them solo their way right into raids!"


FFXIV can do no wrong? When did I say this? FFXIV 2.0 is making the same mistakes 90% of MMOs have done since WoW made money. And look at how many of those MMOs lasted more than a year or 2. Easybake oven? No WoW is an easybake oven. FFXIV is little debbies. Don't even have to plug in the easy bake oven to get your snacks.


Arena? Congratz they have a good pvp system? Did I say anything about their pvp? Actually as someone who played original I have said time and time again the one thing WoW did right was their pvp. The high end of the game wasn't bad at all really. Then BC hit and they gave in to every crying 12 year old on the internet.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

It is already happening here. There are very few people I used to raid with logging on anymore. The continued success of the game comes from the release of the ps4 version. The developers are awesome guys and gals who do listen to feedback (the constructive stuff and not the rants, which I'm sometimes guilty of), but they probably wouldn't have added atma and hunts if the usual formula was accomplishing the goal to retain end game players.

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Because although every serious MMO player has the common sense to know it.. Devs still haven't figured out that "give everyone everything in 20 hours or less!!!!" does not keep players playing.

Same here. The only people left who have been around since relaunch that I know are.... 2 people. And they are friends of mine from EQ. We have all raided together for years.

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Originally Posted by Brainberry

Seems like a complaint from people who just can't keep up with the new content thus falling behind in ilvl.

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Either your being sarcastic or you play a different game. They THROW top end raid gear at you how is it even possible to fall behind unless you don't play.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

Mmmm... Fungi Tunic is still used TODAY as a twink item and still sells for A LOT. CoF was used well into Luclin if not beyond, plus it was tradable so it was always worth a ton of pp. Items like the fungi tunic and the clicky masks were always hugely in demand, and kept old items relevant for years (literally...what...20 expansions later people are still camping the DE mask in Lower Guk).

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Truth.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Maybe it's because sages are wise. After all SE already uprooted and replaced XIV's system and look how well that turned out :p

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Yes you're all so smart and sagely you want A Realm Reborn Reborn. I'm sure the game could sustain that.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

Items like the fungi tunic and the clicky masks were always hugely in demand, and kept old items relevant for years

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Well for the masks I think that's probably just as much the effects as the stats, that's a little like pointing to the Orb of Deception and stating that WoW too has gear people seek 9 years afterward. Definitely I'm not disagreeing with you EQ 1 had a ton of horizontal progression, but pointing to a Clicky and Twink Item as 20 expansions of horizontal progression falls a little short. Unless the Barbarian mask is still BiS for rogues or something.

The constant desire to argue horizontal progression as a no-thought required panacea to all that ails us is just really tiresome. As are the drawn out comparisons to older games that are still 'going strong' thanks to horizontal progression. I mean if there's such a great horizontal progression MMO market out there why not play those games you keep using as examples?

The real answer is just having an item level curve that isn't a total joke. In 2.0, the actual content variety wasn't great, but Philosophy took time to get which meant using all the i60 gear you found lying around as a stopgap was actually pretty useful for something. Now, Myth flows like water so all our 'stopgap' PvE gear and content is basically irrelevant except as their ability to be generators for soldiery tomes.

I actually like how the new dungeon roulette system works and the general breadth of stuff there is to actually do in 2.3 for i90-i100 progress (PvP, Roulettes, ST,) but too much stuff drops gear that's irrelevant on day of release (latest pack of Expert dungeons giving i80 when i90 is the standard,) and to much stuff hasn't been properly given 'legacy' status (while High-level dungeons give a decent packet of inflated myth, the rewards for the very difficult classic extreme primals and their i90 gear still aren't worth the time and skill investment, and the myth / hour for a Labyrinth of the Ancients queue much less doing the content itself is *atrocious*.)

The solution is to either make the next set of Myth items require a little bit of effort to get, OR to put whatever dungeons drop at the actual level of Myth items because i60/i80-style stopgaps just won't be that relevant any more if Myth keeps flowing like it does. And for the love of god, make legacied content actually somewhat time/myth efficient.

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Originally Posted by Worm

Yes you're all so smart and sagely you want A Realm Reborn Reborn. I'm sure the game could sustain that.

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You seem to know sarcasm but considering how you responded to may post i doubt you know what sarcasm is (Or that I wouldn't use smilies if the post was serious)