Adding fuel to the fire, Summoner's future

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Originally Posted by Dwill

A game that hasn't been shutdown (for financial reasons no less) would be a much better example.

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Yes, this is true. But I don't jump from MMO to MMO to MMO like some people do, so the pool I have to draw from is limited. There are no "action-rpg" style MMO's that I've played in recent memory that have a pet class other than that one. You yourself have even stated that you know of no MMO's that offer that type of pet gameplay, so it just goes to show that MMOs with capable pet classes (action-rpg style anyway) are far and few between.

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

Yes, this is true. But I don't jump from MMO to MMO to MMO like some people do, so the pool I have to draw from is limited. There are no "action-rpg" style MMO's that I've played in recent memory that have a pet class other than that one. You yourself have even stated that you know of no MMO's that offer that type of pet gameplay, so it just goes to show that MMOs with capable pet classes (action-rpg style anyway) are far and few between.

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Yes they are far and few between because the balance issues that comes with pet classes are glaringly obvious. While I agree with you that certain QoL of life changes could be made to pet in this game, hoping for a rework of the entire pet system for a few people that don't even seem to know what they want in the first place nor can grasp that each Final Fantasy have their different take on what a Summoner can do.

Since plenty of people like the job as is, Square Enix would have to take a huge risk by changing something that actually works right now for what's nothing more than limited gains.

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Originally Posted by Rydia13

Oi here we go again. First of all, everyone's opinion is relevant.

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No it's not. Your opinion is irrelevant when you're talking about something that has a clear pattern, distinction, and definition. Your opinion on why the sun rises doesn't matter either. We already know why.

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Originally Posted by Rydia13

Secondly, don't compare FF version of Summoner to cheap ripoffs with the same name in other games. There is no "archetype" because Summoner has always been different.

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Summoners, in the FF series, have key characteristics:

1) They summon
2) Their summons are useful
3) They usually have a secondary role
4) For the exception of FFX, summoning is typically their primary role and what they excel at.

Also, cheap ripoff? Surely Final Fantasy was the first RPG to ever make use of summoning in recorded history. You're brilliant.

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Originally Posted by Rydia13

Saying that SMN doesn't fit the mold is ignorance on your part. No changes need to be made, the job is one of the top DPS and all that's really needed is a job specfic LB that allows us to summon a primal which will more than likely give that SMN feel to the job that you're referring to.

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I guess you're admitting that not every opinion is relevant? Oh wait.
Summoner doesn't fit the mold because summons aren't the primary function of the class. SMN has backup heals, a very useful res, utility skills, DoTs, AoE, oh and like 3 pet skills.

Hot damn, what is that, 1/5 areas devoted to summons? Considering how Garuda is the only useful summon, couples with the low DPS (not taking into account Contagion is the only useful skill outside of Enkindle), they're really just there for nostalgia to make us feel like we're Yuna, except summoning more useless, toddler versions of Aeons.

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Originally Posted by Rydia13

Also, there are no Affliction Warlock jobs in the history of FF so wtf would they change one of their most popular jobs to one that's never even been in the series?

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Probably because FF14 SMN is a direct copy of Affliction Warlock? They both:

1) Heavily rely on DoTs
2) Sport a good array of DoT related skills
3) Have built-in sustain
4) Use pets mainly for backup dps and utility
5) Put out stupid amounts of damage

It's literally the same class.
Like I said, I'm sure you like it the way it is, however, the name is misrepresenting of what the class actually does. Change SMN to WLK and Egi to Minion and make a real summoner class. Problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Yes they are far and few between because the balance issues that comes with pet classes are glaringly obvious. While I agree with you that certain QoL of life changes could be made to pet in this game, hoping for a rework of the entire pet system for a few people that don't even seem to know what they want in the first place nor can grasp that each Final Fantasy have their different take on what a Summoner can do.

Since plenty of people like the job as is, Square Enix would have to take a huge risk by changing something that actually works right now for what's nothing more than limited gains.

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I agree with you completely. Just to be clear though, I didn't come in here advocating sweeping changes to rework Summoner, nor have I in the previous thread. The poster I quoted asked a question, and I was simply attempting to offer an answer. And though I did offer an answer, as I said in the previous thread, a pet class of that type would never, ever, be implemented in this game.

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

I agree with you completely. Just to be clear though, I didn't come in here advocating sweeping changes to rework Summoner, nor have I in the previous thread. The poster I quoted asked a question, and I was simply attempting to offer an answer. And though I did offer an answer, as I said in the previous thread, a pet class of that type would never, ever, be implemented in this game.

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I know you're intention were particularly good. My answer was just in the context of the post to which you quoted.

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Originally Posted by Mjytresz

Summoners, in the FF series, have key characteristics:

1) They summon
2) Their summons are useful
3) They usually have a secondary role
4) For the exception of FFX, summoning is typically their primary role and what they excel at.

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This'll be good

1. Which they do in this game.
2. Debatable from game to game.
3. Yes, I wonder why that is.
4. Gosh no. Going on Summoner characters Rydia will be using Black Magic more often than not, because it's more MP efficient. With Eiko and Garnet they'll be healing more than summoning.

So, yeah, you don't know what you are talking about.

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Originally Posted by Razard

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Originally Posted by Mjytresz

Summoners, in the FF series, have key characteristics:

1) They summon
2) Their summons are useful
3) They usually have a secondary role
4) For the exception of FFX, summoning is typically their primary role and what they excel at.

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This'll be good

1. Which they do in this game.
2. Debatable from game to game.
3. Yes, I wonder why that is.
4. Gosh no. Going on Summoner characters Rydia will be using Black Magic more often than not, because it's more MP efficient. With Eiko and Garnet they'll be healing more than summoning.

So, yeah, you don't know what you are talking about.

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Let me get in on this too!

1. Agreed
2. General rule of thumb is; good early game, shitty late/end game
3. As per 2 (usually)
4. Usually because you only bring them for their nuke attack and nothing else.

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Originally Posted by Mjytresz

Summoners, in the FF series, have key characteristics:

1) They summon
2) Their summons are useful
3) They usually have a secondary role
4) For the exception of FFX, summoning is typically their primary role and what they excel at.

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1. So do we.
2. So are ours. (Our pets keeps us competitive in DPS so they are useful)
3. So do we. (Providing light support to the party)
4. So is it for us. (We both summons to deal damage except our damage isn't 100% the pet)

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Originally Posted by Mjytresz

I guess you're admitting that not every opinion is relevant? Oh wait.
Summoner doesn't fit the mold because summons aren't the primary function of the class. SMN has backup heals, a very useful res, utility skills, DoTs, AoE, oh and like 3 pet skills.

Hot damn, what is that, 1/5 areas devoted to summons? Considering how Garuda is the only useful summon, couples with the low DPS (not taking into account Contagion is the only useful skill outside of Enkindle), they're really just there for nostalgia to make us feel like we're Yuna, except summoning more useless, toddler versions of Aeons.

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Titan is pretty useful in open world content and while Ifrit is not as useful as Garuda, he has his uses in certain encounters.

And honestly, saying that pet DPS is low when it is 25-30% of your own makes your already low credibility take a hit.

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Originally Posted by Mjytresz

Probably because FF14 SMN is a direct copy of Affliction Warlock? They both:

1) Heavily rely on DoTs
2) Sport a good array of DoT related skills
3) Have built-in sustain
4) Use pets mainly for backup dps and utility
5) Put out stupid amounts of damage

It's literally the same class.
Like I said, I'm sure you like it the way it is, however, the name is misrepresenting of what the class actually does. Change SMN to WLK and Egi to Minion and make a real summoner class. Problem solved.

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Well I guess by that logic, Warriors and Death Knight are the same:

1. They both use two-handed weapons to tank.
2. They both use a unique resource system to use their core abilities.
3. Both have built-in sustain.
4. Both uses parry as their main passive damage mitigating stats.
5. Puts out more damage than their Paladin counterparts.

See how out of context comparison are worthless ?

It's ridiculous that some people still think Garuda is the only good pet. As someone that has admittedly only been a SMN main for less than a month and has had t9 on farm for almost 3 months I think I do pretty well with Ifrit.

While I do find Garuda better for certain fights, like Ramuh ex, I go with Ifrit for most others. Ifrit is quite good in all of second coil. I've tried all the fights with Garuda only, Ifrit only, and also pet swapping. Pet swapping would be starting with Garuda and swapping to Ifrit after the opening RS + int pot contagion. Ifrit only or pet swap has generally gotten me the best results.

Maybe I'm just bad. Was around 390 - 400 in t6, t7, and t8 this week. 360 in t9. That was at i108 with the soldiery book. Not sure how that compares to those with similar gear proclaiming Garuda to be the only good pet, but it seems reasonable to me. And lucky me finally got the HA book this week so it'll be interesting to see how well my damage scales.

I can't believe people are seriously arguing over single player archetypes on a MMO.
That alone makes this entire thread nothing but a laugh.

Also, lol @ the lack of context in this thread. Might as well say all classes are the same because they can attack things.
Anyone who even touched Affliction Warlock or even watched a Youtube video can see how stupidly similar they are in virtually every area. Your denial doesn't make it less true.