I just wanted to point out a double standard...

Parsers are of the don't flame don't get banned type of rule. Officially, SE takes the stance that they are a no-no, but that doesn't mean that they'll come down hard on you if they find out you're using one. Outside parsers, as others have said, there are clearly times where it's noticeable that the DPS needs to pick up the slack.

People keep citing coil and primals, which are good examples, but because DPS is spread out amongst 4-5 DPS, it's hard to pinpoint who isn't pulling their share in some instances.The 4 man groups are, perhaps, where SE could do a better job of providing DPS training opps.

Off the top of my head, the only real "check" is HM Haukke before last boss eats add. Even then, a healer can heal through the damage. AK's Demon Wall used to be the first real DPS check.. but I recently ended up in there for a myth book (been several months since I had been there), and that dungeon was nerfed pretty heavily. There aren't even bees (I don't think) anymore on wall.

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

It's really not that hard to tell which DPS is pulling their weight unless you have multiples of one class and sometimes not even then. Just look at the buffs on the party and the debuffs on the enemy...
Can you see Chaos Thrust and Heavy Thrust? Is the SMN DoT'ing, Baning and Festering? Archer using AoE's, DoTs and Bloodletter? BLM flaring? Do you see explosions regularly? You can even tell which MNK is kickass by seeing whether they change stances for certain parts of the fight.

You honestly don't need a parser at all.

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Are you honestly expecting someone to keep track of every single skill every dps in your party is using? That is absolutely ridiculous to expect of people who are busy pulling their own weight and doing their own job right in a fight, especially when such fights can last over 10 minutes.

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

Just look at the buffs on the party and the debuffs on the enemy...

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You can only see 5 buffs/debuffs total on the party list. Protect, Stoneskin and Galvanize count and has priority over individual buffs.
Edit: Medica 2, Regen, Whispering Dawn, Fey Illumination, Fey Covenant, Fey Glow, Fey Light all have priorities over individual buffs. Focus Target has the same 5 buffs/debuffs limitation so unless you're sitting there having one person targeted, you'll never see all of them.

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

Can you see Chaos Thrust and Heavy Thrust?

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A dragoon spamming Chaos Thrust combo would still be doing subpar DPS even with Heavy Thurst on.

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

Is the SMN DoT'ing, Baning and Festering?

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This still doesn't mean they're doing good damage. Are they popping Raging Strikes when possible? Are they using Contagion? Bane and Fester are easy to tell but that just means they're using abilities they have. Do you look at the pet too to see if the pet is not just doing auto-attack?

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

Archer using AoE's, DoTs and Bloodletter?

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Archer's AOE are very easy to spot but did he pop B4B, IR, Hawkeye or any of the buffs before using it? Just because it is used doesn't mean he's doing enough damage. Same thing with DoT. Is that DoT buffed or not? Bloodletter has no special effect IIRC. Tell me how you spot that.

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

BLM flaring? Do you see explosions regularly?

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Same thing with Summoners. Are those flare buffed or unbuffed? Is it in Astral Fire or Umbral Ice? Which stage of AF and UI is it in? Even then, it doesn't mean they're doing maximum DPS as you also have to track how long they are in UI phase, how much movement they're doing.

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

You can even tell which MNK is kickass by seeing whether they change stances for certain parts of the fight.

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Changing stances is as easy as hitting the abilities. It has nothing to do with being good or not. This on top of MNK having a separate buff icon for the stances sometimes throw off GL icon on the party list which don't allow you to monitor if their GL3 is always up or it's down several times. Then comes the question: are they hitting from the right sides of the boss? are they missing their auto-attack? are they refreshing dot too early or it's never up at all?

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Originally Posted by givemeraptors

You honestly don't need a parser at all.

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If you can track all that, it still doesn't mean they have enough DPS to beat the fight. And really if you can track 4 other people's buffs, debuffs, timings and all that good stuffs, they should put you into a research facility. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Macka

You don't get banned for telling them they dps is low. You get banned by telling them they dps is low because they only doing 200dps instead of 475. Get your facts right. Same if you tell a healer their numbers there is no double standard.

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Basically this. Long as your vague they can't touch you. Though then of course someone is going to come back at you with "what proof do you have that I can't play my class"

Your dps is low.

Oh yeah? What proof do you have?

None. (Gets reported for harassment)

You were pulling only 150 DPS. (Gets reported for harassment with 3rd party programs)

Basically, bads wanna stay bad and gonna stay bad.

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Originally Posted by OPneedNerfs

Your dps is low.

Oh yeah? What proof do you have?

None. (Gets reported for harassment)

You were pulling only 150 DPS. (Gets reported for harassment with 3rd party programs)

Basically, bads wanna stay bad and gonna stay bad.

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No punishment is going to be given out for saying "dude you suck" (insert as many curse worse as you want)

Harassment is repeated. If you say something once or twice in the dungeon nothing will come of it. Now if you go on for 10 minutes about hwo bad they are then yea your likely going to get punished.

We had a drg last night in stone vigil we ended up kicking because he wasn't playing his job right. I asked him nicely why he was only using one skill over and over and over and not moving around at all for his skills.

Don't worry about it he told me. Well here's the thing, the mobs were taking twice as long to kill as they should have, so I was worried about it. Next set of mobs I asked him again, saying he wasn't optimizing his dps and we were being hobbled by his lack of caring.

Are you running a parser? How do you know what my damage is. If you are I'm reporting you and you'll get banned. I play the job how I want.

No parser here, but the other two members were in my FC and I know they were playing their jobs correctly. It would have been nice to give this guy some hard data as to just how bad he was doing, but alas parsers aren't allowed. This guy's behavior while not the norm would be a great reason to have an in game dps meter to show just how badly he was doing. In the end after refusing to be a team player he actually went afk no warning. Vote to kick initiated.

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Originally Posted by Nadrojj

We had a drg last night in stone vigil we ended up kicking because he wasn't playing his job right. I asked him nicely why he was only using one skill over and over and over and not moving around at all for his skills.

Don't worry about it he told me. Well here's the thing, the mobs were taking twice as long to kill as they should have, so I was worried about it. Next set of mobs I asked him again, saying he wasn't optimizing his dps and we were being hobbled by his lack of caring.

Are you running a parser? How do you know what my damage is. If you are I'm reporting you and you'll get banned. I play the job how I want.

No parser here, but the other two members were in my FC and I know they were playing their jobs correctly. It would have been nice to give this guy some hard data as to just how bad he was doing, but alas parsers aren't allowed. This guy's behavior while not the norm would be a great reason to have an in game dps meter to show just how badly he was doing. In the end after refusing to be a team player he actually went afk no warning. Vote to kick initiated.

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Good on you for booting the guy.
From what he was saying back to you it's almost as if he was intentionally out to report people who might use parsers or care about the damage of dps players by baiting people with their low performance. It wouldn't surprise me with how militant some people are against parsers in this game's community (you only need to look in this thread). Sad times we live in when doing your job well is considered something negative, and any amount of advice to improve your game is seen as harassment.

I don't need a parser to tell me that I run out of MP healing the tank in the first SR pull in Brayflox because the DPS didn't kill fast enough. I have no add ons of any kind, wouldn't even know what to do with them. When DPS sucks, it's pretty obvious.

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Originally Posted by JillyBean

When DPS sucks, it's pretty obvious.

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Except it's not so obvious to see which DPS sucks. Is that so hard to grasp? Would you replace 3 people doing 400 DPS because another guy doing 100 DPS is dragging the whole team down? And if you think it's easy to tell who's not pulling weight, see my response above.