This is why you're not justified in being so angry.

If I buy a frisbee at the dollar store for 1.00 and play with that for 10 hours a month then you have to play FFXIV 100-150 hours to get the same value. FFXIV has less value than a frisbee using your own logic.

See, stupid argument. I can think of plenty of things with far greater value than FFXIV if we're just going to use time and money spent as the key factors. Why not just compare features in this game to other MMOs, since they're at least similar forms of entertainment? That would make...some actual sense, at least.

And besides, the overwhelmingly vast majority of complaints have absolutely nothing to do with the value of the game using money and time spent. It's mostly things like restricted gameplay, poor design, etc. that seem to upset people. And it's actually a good thing that these complaints and criticisms are posted, since they can be used by the developers to improve the game. Now, if you don't like the way people present their criticisms or whatever, then that's fine. You should, you know, say that instead.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

Did you buy this game expecting an MMO? Good, good. Did you get a platformer with NES graphics? No? OK.

They advertised an MMO with X features, and delivered it. I'm not talking about the people that are unsatisfied with the product, if they were, they had every right to return this physical copy or their digital copy via Mog Station. This is for the people saying there is not enough to do in the game. You are making an in-congruent counter-point.

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Delivered what exactly? Do you mean easy mode or everything to the point anyone can have everything with little to no work? SE has not delivered what they promised, the economy is in the toilet, housing is so damn expensive just to remove gil from the game, endgame what endgame is more like it. Lets not forget there is 0 open world content that is worth doing over and over, everyone just Q's up and sits in town. So no they have not delivered as promised. What they did deliver is a game that has copied every other games features but they didnt improve on them.

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Originally Posted by Miburo

And besides, the overwhelmingly vast majority of complaints have absolutely nothing to do with the value of the game using money and time spent. It's mostly things like restricted gameplay, poor design, etc. that seem to upset people. And it's actually a good thing that these complaints and criticisms are posted, since they can be used by the developers to improve the game. Now, if you don't like the way people present their criticisms or whatever, then that's fine. You should, you know, say that instead.

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Value is subjective. Your argument is invalid. There is no way to compare 2 things levels of value between 2 different people. Period. Also, complaints about poor game design/gameplay have to do with value since if you pay for something and spend time and don't like it, your sense of value for that item diminishes which leads to said complaints.

OP has a point. It is accurate but not exact due to the subjective nature of value.

All the posts in this thread saying the game has no value are wrong because it has value to some people.

You cannot make that broad generalization.

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Originally Posted by Kantide

Value is subjective. Your argument is invalid. There is no way to compare 2 things levels of value between 2 different people. Period. Also, complaints about poor game design/gameplay have to do with value since if you pay for something and spend time and don't like it, your sense of value for that item diminishes which leads to said complaints.

OP has a point. It is accurate but not exact due to the subjective nature of value.

All the posts in this thread saying the game has no value are wrong because it has value to some people.

You cannot make that broad generalization.

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You do realize I'm responding to the Original Post, who's entire argument centered around "entertainment value per dollar," correct? He used a mathematical formula using money spent and time spent to determine that value. So if you're going to criticize anyone with your 'value is subjective' crap then it should be him. Not me. I was merely presenting a counter-argument. I don't think 'entertainment value per dollar' invalidates many, if any, of the complaints on this forum. Certainly not enough that warranted an entire thread, at least. But whatever. My argument isn't invalidated, since my argument is basically "Entertainment value per dollar doesn't mean jack. It certainly doesn't act as a counter-argument to most complaints on this forum. Because most complaints on this forum aren't 'Herp a derp this game provides poor entertainment value per dollar determined by a mathematical formula.'"

I am sure there are a myriad of things that provide a much better entertainment / dollar ratio than FFXIV.

Your only argument that you made was that a Frisbee is more cost effective in that manner. I will concede that point. It still does not change anything. Frisbees are still awesome. But stop being obtuse, you understand the point I'm trying to make and are claiming that a Frisbee will provide you with the same value of entertainment? And a $1.00 Frisbee? Please, that thing hits Old Man Miller's fence post once and it gets a crack, then Jimmy catches it wrong and splits his hand open, has to get gul' darn near 10 stitches in his hand! His 'ma gets all mad at us, and we had to spend a week movin' bricks outside of Jimmy's dad's store! Gee Jolly Wiz Bang Dangit!!

Also, "it doesn't deserve an ENTIRE THREAD"? Oh my god, not a WHOLE thread. I hardly think this is the most frivolous thread ever made. I didn't expect 7 pages of responses...

My post was directed at people who value FFXIV quite a bit, as they are ON THE OFFICIAL FORUMS for it. So... yeah... Do you want to do a survey of everyone in the world rating how much they value every object in the world on a scale of 1 - 1000 or do you want to be reasonable?

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Originally Posted by Miburo

If I buy a frisbee at the dollar store for 1.00 and play with that for 10 hours a month then you have to play FFXIV 100-150 hours to get the same value. FFXIV has less value than a frisbee using your own logic.

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To you, not me.

I haven't played with nor bought a Frisbee in like 20 something years. If I did, I'd find it enjoyable for like 5 minutes, put it down, and then go play ARR. Therefore for me, frisbee < ARR in terms of value for me.

Value is subjective, not objective.

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

As to everyone else - I'm done, this thread as become counterproductive

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It was never productive in the first place.

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I don't think I know best but I think that my perspective has some value, and I wanted to share it with people. Way to turn this into a negative poop-throwing competition.

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Then perhaps you should’ve made your original post with this kind of humble humility instead of the holier-than-thou attitude. Don’t blame others for throwing poop on your face after you unloaded a dump truck of it on theirs.

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If you think I'm trying to tell you how to spend your money, you have missed the point. If you think that I am defending the game's flaws, you have missed my point. If you think I set out to bait people into argument, you have missed my point.

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Oh really?

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

The fact that there is nothing left to do is completely reasonable. If you want more content, give positive feedback about how great this was and that you want more of it! Don't demand insane things that are far outside of the scope of what you could reasonably expect for the dollar in your hand.

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That sounds awfully lot like defending the game’s flaw to me.

BTW, you touching upon crafting/gathering there made it all the more ironic, as the entire reason there isn’t anything worth doing with those classes or “contents” is exactly because SE implemented a terrible economic/game system, but I guess according to you we really should be telling SE how great that shitty system is and how we want more of it. :rolleyes:

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The only reasonable reaction of rage that you should have with the content provided is "I really, really, really want to give you much more money to have more game to play!

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I guess you actually like getting poop thrown on your face by SE, {Thanks for the offer, but I’ll have to pass}.

Worst of all, you still don't get it, who died and made you king to decide what people can and cannot complain about?

Nica:

1 - Rude!

2 - Apologies if I seemed holier than thou, I thought I had a valid point to make (and I still do), no poop-flinging intended. My point was dissenting to a group of people so of course I am going to tell them they are wrong in some sense. Now, I didn't call them stupid or insult them. Can you specifically site where I used excessive negative rhetoric?

3 - The game is not flawed, the amount of content available is not in balance with the amount of time a group of consumers has to consume it. I never breached any subject of game design, etc.

4 - If you feel like you are getting poop thrown on your face from SE, why would you continue to pay for that privilege?

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Originally Posted by Lucke

To you, not me.

I haven't played with nor bought a Frisbee in like 20 something years. If I did, I'd find it enjoyable for like 5 minutes, put it down, and then go play ARR. Therefore for me, frisbee < ARR in terms of value for me.

Value is subjective, not objective.

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Holy crap. Alright, I'm SORRY. I didn't know mocking an argument to demonstrate how irrelevant "entertainment value per dollar" actually is, and even saying "using your (OP's) own logic" while doing it, would make people think I literally think it. Maybe I should have put it in italics or something? I dunno.

To make it clear, no, I do not personally think value is objective. OP does. You saw the 62.5 cents per dollar value he was using in his examples. That's a number. You know, those not subjective numerical values. Replace some variables in his equation and you'll get another non-subjective number. Etc. You're criticizing the OP when you attack that statement. You're actually agreeing with me. You get that, right? Dear Odin...

And yeah, OP. I get what you're saying, bro. Unlike some people, I'm actually pretty good at the whole reading comprehension thing. =p And I would agree with you if you simply said "This is why you're not justified in thinking FFXIV (or any MMO) offers poor entertainment value per dollar." Because you'd be right if you were simply saying MMOs provide a lot of potential entertainment compared to their cost. If that's all you meant, then cool. Totally agree. I still think there are plenty of valid complaints on the forum though too.

Complaining about complaining.