How did the community become this toxic?

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Genres move forward as time progresses. That'd be like old RPG fans complaining that open world RPGs like Skyrim and action RPGs like Secret of Mana should not exist and that everything should be turn-based combat.

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Yes, genres move forward - but instead of expanding, the selection of mmorpg has become narrower and narrower in everything but sheer number. I was referring more to the originality and variety of the models we can play. Just because we have Skyrim, it doesn't mean we should completely kill off turn-based games. I perfectly enjoy both types - they offer different things.

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If you've looked at how WoW's lore turned, they've made feeble attempts to create new characters, and when they do they heavily mess up development in some way or do something stupid like cling to the old guard and sacrifice said new characters (building up Liam Graymane only to kill him off at the end of the Worgen starting area comes to mind). The fact they chose to go back to the Horde's glory days pre first war is a blatant admission that they can't come up with anything actually new (not counting whatever conspiracy theories remain on Horde favoritism). Garrosh was the biggest waste of character development I've ever seen, and don't even get me started on the garbage that they called the Fall of Theramore.

I wasn't kidding when I said the turns in WoW's lore played a huge role in the cancellation of my account. >.>I wasn't kidding when I said the turns in WoW's lore played a huge role in the cancellation of my account. >.>

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I still stand by my own opinion. XD I love stories where you travel back in time - it allows authors to revisit and flesh out characters I've always been curious and care to hear more about. And I'd rather have that than adding new things and lore just for the sake of it being new. I share your dislike for Garrosh though <3.

While there are tons of nice people in the game still (at my server at least), a big chunk of the nicer audience have left the game, and that happens to every MMO.

Casual social players try out the game, but then after a couple of months, they leave because they don't want to do the harder endgame content. Left are a lot of competitive players that doesn't care about anyone except them self, and they don't want anybody to hold them down from progressing.

I'm not like this, and nobody in my FC is like this, but there is a lot of it going around.

Just find an active social FC, unless you already have one.

The more solo-centric a game becomes, the more self-centered the players become. You can see this in every MMO ever released if it made any kind of transition from group-centric play to solo play. The community ALWAYS degrades as you remove features that force cooperation and communication.

To put it bluntly when you don't need other players to help you get things done the endgame turns into an every man for himself scenario. The DF basically allows players to do group content with 'disposable' allies which further exacerbates the problem, encouraging nasty behaviour because there are no social repercussions for doing so.

The only real solution here from a design standpoint is to force group play on people in a way that forces long-term positive social interaction. They won't do that though because they make more money by catering to the lowest common denominator: soloers (who I should add are not to blame for this, the issue is the elitist types that take advantage of the solo-oriented gameplay).

The only solution from the player standpoint is to isolate yourself within a FC and minimise random interaction with other players (such as through the DF). Of course this arguably makes the situation worse on the whole but we're left with little choice.

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Originally Posted by HumsterMKX

So I strongly strongly suggest we farm humanity and spread it across our servers. Here how you can get Humanity.

1)Slaying Lalafells
2)Punching Lalafells
3)Kicking Lalafells

On whole you can get humanity by farming Lalafells.

Or you can buy some repackaged Lalafell souls Humanity off me. Pst. Help make your server a happlier place today.

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You know, I was the strongest believer that Lalafell and the inferior species could all get along. But reading this I realise I was wrong. THIS IS WAR!

Every time I see a thread like this, I wonder if people don't realize this game is on the internet. Most people are selfish, greedy and stubborn. Get together with 100 strangers in real life, I'm sure you'll find most of the people obnoxious or annoying. Has nothing to do with these silly replies like "it's how Yoshida made it" and such.

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Originally Posted by Whimsicalalien

More and more WoW players are moving in.

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Not quite. Most experienced it and left after the free 30 days. Now you are left with FF players. Quit blaming other games for problems in this one.

Still don't understand -this- term being thrown around... toxic community...

i'm relatively sure the internet always contained its share of jerks so yeah also game mechanics which actually puts responsibility on players to "dodge" / "Tank swap" etc etc now make it that people are more confrontational to one another when something goes wrong

so the internet (community) never changed the game did

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Originally Posted by SummonerSenah

I think that a lot of toxic people are probably also that way irl. It really has nothing to do with the game at all. Some people are just that nasty and no changes to the game will fix that. Then there are the people that believe the relative anonymity of the internet makes it so they aren't accountable. If you check any Youtube comments, you'll see examples of that.

tl ; dr It has more to do with people just being that way than with it being because of the game, IMO

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I think that you are absolutely right. I tend to act pretty much in game/on boards as I do in real life. I'm a softie at heart and try to be nice to folks. Even if I'm in a horrendous group, I try to gracefully exit. Was in a WP group with one fellow who had low level jewelry and a level 44 weapon...yikes. We got it done but it was a pretty rough run. No one said a peep although we could have. This player thanked us at the end for taking a newbie through the dungeon.

Last night while running CT for the second time, I had a horrid gaming experience. One player (a tank) who had a name that sort of indicated a short fuse, started mouthing off at the start. On clearing the very first room, one poor tank made a bad pull and the abuse heaped upon this poor soul was unrelenting and went on for quite some time. Mr. Mouthy Tank kept on with the abuse throughout the run. Retards, stupid players, etc. At one point, I wanted to chime in with, "I would rather run with "stupid" players than someone having a temper tantrum through the whole run." My hubby who was playing along side me begged me not to stir the pot so I held my tongue. Most everyone else said nothing throughout the run but this one player ruined it for everyone. Not sure how to start a votekick....I fumbled around for a bit but was too busy following the herd trying to get the run done. I'm not even sure if this behavior was a reportable offense. I need to get better acquainted with the TOS and start reporting more.

After the run, I looked up this particular player on lodestone toying with reporting him. His blog posts were quite telling. Filled with profanity and raging. Definitely not a nice person and a miserable human being. Unfortunately he has chosen an MMO for his outlet I guess. I hope that he finds happiness and some sort of relief in life. Seems to suffer real extreme anger issues and wouldn't want to meet him in real life. Scary person.

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Originally Posted by Kiayin

Yes, genres move forward - but instead of expanding, the selection of mmorpg has become narrower and narrower in everything but sheer number. I was referring more to the originality and variety of the models we can play. Just because we have Skyrim, it doesn't mean we should completely kill off turn-based games. I perfectly enjoy both types - they offer different things..

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The problem is though, it doesn't matter what we like, if enough people don't actually buy it, the companies can't make it worth doing. Games are so not cheap to make now, mmos even more so, that the risk is too high with the rewards being less. Niche games even more so. I love some of the odder Japanese games, but know it's not worth the cost to translate and sell over here for most companies, but get happy and buy them when they are, even if i already bought the import version.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

The more solo-centric a game becomes, the more self-centered the players become.
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To put it bluntly when you don't need other players to help you get things done the endgame turns into an every man for himself scenario.

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Phantasy Star Online.

Granted, in retrospect, I think a lot of the reason that community ended up being so laid back and enjoyable was due to the amount of dupes and hacks going around.
I played legitimately and hated all the cheating at the time, but now I think it may have worked in the game's favour; when everyone already has everything, there's no need for them to join your room and demand it become all about speed-running or grinding, nor is there a reason (for most) to be particularly bitter when you grab a drop and they don't.
And since 99% of the rest of the population has all the same things they do, there's not much point in trying to show off and fixate on exclusivity.


The overall design helped pretty significantly as well though. Since, past a certain point, you could be effective with most any rare weapon and every enemy in the game had the potential to drop a specific rare item, just playing through the entirity of the game and collecting all the fun new toys was (for the most part) the preferred way to go.
If a game promotes Z as the best item and you have to go through area 1 to have a chance at X to go through area 2 to get Y to go through area 3 to get Z, then it encourages everyone to just rush those 3 areas as quickly as possible since the only thing good comes at the end of them and Z is all that matters in the end.
So linear, vertical, progression and 'vertical challenges' really serve to damage the community more than the content being 'soloable' in my eyes.