Tank-specific tips for Extreme Primals

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

It will always be available in time for the swap, hitting 2 stacks just as Provoke comes off cooldown (it applies 1 stack every 20 seconds).

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It doesn't unfortunately. Spiny sometimes can apply 1 stack right away or before the first 20 seconds is over. In solo healing party, if I OT, I usually find myself waiting on Provoke to be off CD (I pull suparna away from MT so melee can hit her safely) if I use it on Spiny right as it spawns.

Damn Square was trolling me, actually North on Ifrit is LEFT from the spawn point non straight forwar ^^ Now I understand my discussions with other tanks XD

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

It doesn't unfortunately. Spiny sometimes can apply 1 stack right away or before the first 20 seconds is over.

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This has been my experience as well. It seems the safer bet is to just leave Garuda and Suparna on the MT the whole time. This way, provoke is always available for spiny and once Chirada is dead, all melee have to do is wait for Garuda to WW and then jump in to finish off Suparna. Plus, with two healers on the MT at that point, there's no reason he should die once Chirada is down.

I have a question though. How do you handle pulling the spiny as MT mostly? When I tab to spiny in twisters, I can't see Suparna at all. Do you just let the OT sit with two stacks until after she slipstreams for the second time before moving in to tab/provoke the spiny? I find that often times, I'll get hit because I go in to provoke and she slip streams me from behind.

The safest bet is to rage of halone chirada, provoke and shield lob spiny at start followed by flash and circle of scorn. Depends on your DPS, MT will either provoke spiny off you first or you provoke Suparna off him first. There's really no need for melee to risk it with Wicked Wheel.
If you zoom out all the way, Suparna should still be on the bottom of your screen. I usually bait the slipstream first to go provoke safely since you got 20 seconds is over. Of course, I see it as soon as OT has 2 stacks so that's my cue for baiting. If you mess up the timing, just use a CD to eat it. Slipstream doesn't hurt that bad.

Also, for the all ranged/ignore Chirada method....

The OT is in charge of spiny the whole time (MT having to provoke in the circle once, and then in twisters if it goes to the OT first) and all range focus Suparna and then switch to Garuda? Does Chirada ever shriek early or is it always when Garuda does it? Also, should the tank LB as soon as he enters the spiny bubble or wait until Garuda/Chirada appear? Do I have all of that right? Once again, this sucks for melee, but I'd really like to give this method a shot.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

The safest bet is to rage of halone chirada, provoke and shield lob spiny at start followed by flash and circle of scorn. Depends on your DPS, MT will either provoke spiny off you first or you provoke Suparna off him first. There's really no need for melee to risk it with Wicked Wheel.

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I'm still learning this fight, for sure, but I just find that too many things can go wrong here. For instance, I've had the DD pull Chirada off of me when I tabbed to provoke spiny. I RoH as soon as she appeared, CoS, RoH (Both uncomboed.. just trying to get some quick threat so I could grab spiny quickly), tabbed to spiny, provoked, lobbed, ran toward my corner and Chirada turned and raced towards the Bard before I could do anything else. I also once had a situation where I provoked both spiny and Chirada and Chirada died fast, the MT provoked the spiny and I had to wait for Suparna. Once Provoke was up, I grabbed Suparna. She died quickly and once the circle phase started again, the spiny went to the MT and I had to wait another 10 second or so before my provoke came off CD. The problem here was that the DD were stacked on Garuda to AOE the plumes. I had to scream and <se.2> that I couldn't provoke yet so they wouldn't go crazy and kill the spiny with AOEs.

I've just found that certain parameters can make swapping unreliable. It's a lot safer for melee and it takes a little pressure off the MT, but the timing can really get weird.

I use Rage of Halone combo'd. Typically how: Fight or Flight -> Fast Blade Garuda as soon as she lands -> Savage Blade Chirada -> Provoke Spiny (since it's oGCD) -> Shield Lob Spiny -> Rage of Halone Chirada -> Circle of Scorn -> Flash. If your DD is slightly intelligent and doesn't blow their loads right away, this should keep Chirada on you. You don't run towards your corner immediately. There are time between sisters spawning and tornadoes/buffs appearing. Make sure you get aggro on both THEN run. The case happens if DPS is fast, like I said sometimes MT provoke Spiny before your Provoke is back up but that's no problem. If you provoke right away in tornado phase and as soon as it's up to grab Suparna, it should be up by the time eye phase starts. You know it'll be fine if you see it has 10 seconds or less left when Spiny explodes, given that it explodes before Garuda lands. If it's not, ask your DPS to wait till your provoke is up to pull Spiny away. Good DPS will stack on Garuda and blow those feathers up in a matter of seconds with flare and wide volley. It's not a problem, it's your DPS not paying attention to Spiny. Get better DPS.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

It doesn't unfortunately. Spiny sometimes can apply 1 stack right away or before the first 20 seconds is over. In solo healing party, if I OT, I usually find myself waiting on Provoke to be off CD (I pull suparna away from MT so melee can hit her safely) if I use it on Spiny right as it spawns.

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In solo healing party, yes, but that's because you kill each sister in about 20 seconds and should only go through one tornado phase at all. You aren't racing plume stacks; you're just too far ahead in DPS. If your DPS is that high, just don't bother moving Suparna. You'll kill her before Garuda can WW anyway. You can actually do that much damage with two healers if your DPS are good enough.

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Originally Posted by Versiroth

This way, provoke is always available for spiney

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What? Lemon8or was talking about provoking Suparna, not the spiny. OT can always provoke the spiny at the start of the phase, and has no reason to provoke the spiny a second time.

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Originally Posted by Versiroth

Also, for the all ranged/ignore Chirada method....

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Minstrel Shriek only occurs at the end of the phase. Since LB2/3 makes your tank immobile, you'll want to eat the explosion from the spiny rather than risk being outside the bubble when the cast goes off. Generally best to have a SCH bubble here as well because it'll still hit everyone for 4k. It's really just an alternative to solo heal method, since both methods should have you finish Garuda before the second tornado phase ends.

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Originally Posted by Versiroth

I'm still learning this fight, for sure, but I just find that too many things can go wrong here. For instance, I've had the DD pull Chirada off of me when I tabbed to provoke spiny.

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That would be your own fault. FoF + RoH combo. Again, for the entire fight, your goal is not to panic and run in circles hitting Shield Lob. You have ~20 seconds before tornadoes appear at all, and MT won't have more than 1 stack from eye phase. You can start your combo on Garuda then hit Chirada when she spawns. Garuda is vulnerable for the entirety of the eye->tornado phase transition, but even if she weren't, you no longer need to deal damage to advance combos.

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Originally Posted by Versiroth

I also once had a situation where I provoked both spiny and Chirada and Chirada died fast, the MT provoked the spiny and I had to wait for Suparna.

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As noted above, that happens when your DPS is high. It really doesn't matter; you can provoke Suparna once it's up (safer) or just let melee DPS go across the tornados and kill Suparna where she stands (technically riskier, but if you're killing Chirada that fast, you should have no trouble downing Suparna just as quickly).

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Originally Posted by Versiroth

Once Provoke was up, I grabbed Suparna. She died quickly and once the circle phase started again, the spiny went to the MT and I had to wait another 10 second or so before my provoke came off CD. The problem here was that the DD were stacked on Garuda to AOE the plumes. I had to scream and <se.2> that I couldn't provoke yet so they wouldn't go crazy and kill the spiny with AOEs.

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Tornado phase is 90 seconds. Transition is another 15 or so. During that time frame, you use Provoke twice. Garuda does not ever jump out of tornado phase based on DPS. You are using provoke on something you shouldn't be.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

If your DPS is that high, just don't bother moving Suparna.

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I usually move her anyway since: 1. I'll have nothing to do (maybe run to the otherside and DPS) when MT pulls Spiny off and Chirada is dead. 2. If I have 2 or 3 melees in party, it's safer for them and I still encounter a lot of melee DPS who doesn't know when to jump over -.-" Ranged dps doesn't stop DPSing so it's not that much of a net loss compared to melee DPS waiting for WW then jump.

I had a group that did something interesting last night. We had one melee and instead of everyone killing Chirada and then the OT pulling Suparna across the tornados, we had all range on Suparna from the start and we had the melee LB Chirada each time. So, the melee/OT pretty much downed Chirada by themselves (we switched to Chir for a second when Garuda/Suparna teleported) and the three range were able to down Suparna very fast as well as we could stay on her practically the whole time. The tanks only had to worry about the spiny and no DPS had to risk WW.

It seems like a pretty good melee friendly strategy to me.