Couples geting the shaft on duty roulette

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Originally Posted by Ehayte

words

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your posts gross me out and you write like you are wearing fifty fedoras, but i'm going to keep my gorge down and engage with you anyway, in spite of my better judgement.

i forgot i rewrote that sentence and left in "it's worth," oops. the whole point i'm getting at -- have been getting at, have been getting frustrated about -- is that:


1) There are no players queuing for high-level roulette who were not already just picking a dungeon and queueing for it last week. Nobody. Seriously, nobody is doing this -- it's not going to decrease wait times because the extra 40 myth tomes are not going to lure out the players who preferred doing other content to cap every week because there is no other content which will allow players at endgame to reach 450 myth tomes in the span of a week. It's dungeon runs, or ~50 peisteskin maps -- pick your poison.

Now, i don't doubt at all that it'll make queues for low-level dungeons and story missions faster -- that 300 philosophy tome reward is pretty enticing. But for post-story dungeons, the only reason your queues would be faster is because more people started playing again after being broken by AK fatigue in the weeks before 2.1. Think about this, please: breaking last week's LS buddies, couples, or farming statics up into solo players queueing individually does not do anything at all for the balance of players waiting in duty finder -- if a tank and healer team are now both forced into solo queue, what exactly actually changed? DPS will still have to wait for a tank and healer before they can go -- moving that tank out of his group doesn't do anything for queue times, and if you break a four-person group up, the best you can say has happened is you've shuffled queue times around a little. There's little to suggest that high-level roulette is anything other than a log-in bonus akin to Warframe -- it's an incentive to do something everyone with an interest in continuing to make progress at endgame was already doing.

and;

2) The existence of a bonus for playing solo in the only content that can realistically get players capped on tomestones every week imposes an in-game pressure not to play with friends -- the (unfinished/rewritten, oops) question i was asking above is "is it actually worth playing with your friends, when you know you are in essence wasting their time, given the paltry reward compared to solo play?" Games are didactic; they teach rules and systems through mechanics, and looking at 4-5 dungeon runs through roulette vs 9-10 queueing normally pretty clearly teaches you one thing: "doing dungeons at endgame without using roulette is inefficient."

ergo;

3) Claims that high-level roulette assists in speeding matchmaking are founded only inasmuch as everyone is now further burdened by the implications of a weekly cap that is set in stone, with no willingness from devs to consider rollover or other means to ease the imposition on players' time: DPS who befriended tanks to speed queues are now forced back into waiting for a tank to join DR; tanks and healers, as bottleneck roles, still instantly find groups, but not with trusted friends that they enjoy playing the game with; the pool of players waiting to be allowed to finish their chores has not decreased at all, and indeed swells dramatically as finding a group to speed run with in revenant's toll is now, essentially, a waste of time. You need not be infatuated with your significant other to be inconvenienced by high-level roulette! In fact, the only people who could conceivably benefit are those who EXCLUSIVELY play solo, never participate in group content with LS/FC players, do not seek groups or respond to requests for people to join groups in progress -- they, of course, are unlikely to see any faster queue times, but they will at least be getting more myth stones.


What kills me here is you conceded my point already -- that this system hurts normal players like you because you can't play with your friends as you admit you would prefer without being penalized -- but then you took the opportunity to take shots at couples who are sad they can't share something they enjoy with their loved ones because you wanted to flaunt your mastery of high school level economics. If you expected that to be met with a slowly rising wave of applause, you might want to seriously reconsider the way you look at the world around you, dude or dudette.

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Originally Posted by Norondor

your posts gross me out and you write like you are wearing fifty fedoras, but i'm going to keep my gorge down and engage with you anyway, in spite of my better judgement.....

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QQ

/10char

lawl double post but i need to be mean to forum user yahavage quick here

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Originally Posted by Yahavage

I think you'll find it is designed to help solo players get groups. That is, in fact, exactly what it is designed for. It's distributing high-level players into RANDOM CONTENT to do. RANDOM. ONCE PER DAY. It is therefore, not designed, to give high level players a boost, by playing with their friends. If it was designed to do that, do you not think, that the bonus would come from entering the duty while partied up with someone? I mean if you think about it that would make sense right? But seeing as you get the boost by going in alone, do you not think that it is the point really? To help other people get out of their queues a bit quicker?

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Yeah that does make sense when you put it that way.

Hey on another topic did you notice you can't queue for CT as anything other than a solo player or a group of eight even though it's a 24-person dungeon and it would sorta make sense if players could actually attempt it with a group that's the same size as the dungeon, and yoshi-p's suggestion was, honest to god, "just form three groups of eight and queue at the same time, and it'll probably put at least two of them together, maybe"

I feel like there's a connecting thread between this and SE's failure to include matchmaking functionality present at the launch of WoW's random dungeons but so as not to rob you of the joys of discovery i will leave you to puzzle it out on your own

Good luck

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Originally Posted by Norondor

1) There are no players queuing for high-level roulette who were not already just picking a dungeon and queueing for it last week. Nobody. Seriously, nobody is doing this...

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You have no data of this. Maybe among the few you have asked agree with this, but of the 500k+ people playing the game, you cannot even statistically say that NOBODY is doing this. In fact, I ran a low level duty roulette last night just for fun. So my experience alone nullifies that argument.

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Originally Posted by Norondor

2) The existence of a bonus for playing solo in the only content that can realistically get players capped on tomestones every week imposes an in-game pressure not to play with friends

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The bonus doesn't impose the pressure... YOU are imposing the pressure on yourself. You don't need the bonus and as others have stated, you can do the content with groups more efficiently than a once a day roulette bonus. (or even 4 a day if you do each roulette group)

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Originally Posted by Norondor

3) Claims that high-level roulette assists in speeding matchmaking are founded only inasmuch as everyone is now further burdened by the implications of a weekly cap that is set in stone, with no willingness from devs to consider rollover or other means to ease the imposition on players' time: DPS who befriended tanks to speed queues are now forced back into waiting for a tank to join DR; tanks and healers, as bottleneck roles, still instantly find groups, but not with trusted friends that they enjoy playing the game with;

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Now you are assuming that the Duty Roulette is forcing people to use it. It's not. It doesn't FORCE you to queue up single because you can still go befriend your tank friend and speed queue. And even after you use the Duty Roulette which is a max of 4 times a day if you use each category, after that are you still forced to queue solo in DF? No... There is no forcing. All of this is being created in your mind because you want a feature that is not currently available. The roulette forces nothing on no one. The bonus is an incentive for you to perform an action. It doesn't force you to perform the action. You have a choice to perform it or not. Just like a 10% discount on shirts is an incentive to go buy those shirts. If those aren't the shirts you want, are you really going to get angry at the store and tell the manager he's ignorant for forcing you to buy those shirts because the 10% is only on those shirts and not the ones you want?

The system is only hurting the players who are hurting themselves. You can play with friends, no one stopped you with that. The duty roulette bonus is just to encourage solo queuing. Not doing the roulette doesn't incur any penalty other than you not receiving the bonus. A bonus of which you can easily make up for by queuing the duty finder with your friend/group since you can 1. run the dungeon smoothly with people you know and 2. run the dungeon more often with guaranteed success.

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Originally Posted by Norondor

There are no players queuing for high-level roulette who were not already just picking a dungeon and queueing for it last week. Nobody. Seriously, nobody is doing this

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Who has two thumbs, hadn't run DF in over a month outside of full FC, and ran duty roulette level 50 yesterday?

<-- This guy.

I would have preferred to have run with some FC buddies though, 40 minute WP is harsh -_-

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Originally Posted by Norondor

Games are didactic; they teach rules and systems through mechanics, and looking at 4-5 dungeon runs through roulette vs 9-10 queueing normally pretty clearly teaches you one thing: "doing dungeons at endgame without using roulette is inefficient."

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Again, this is based on the assumption that your clear times with friends versus random people is the same. For me it is most definitely not, and I would say for most people that group regularly together it is far less in their preformed group.

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Originally Posted by glen7187

You have no data of this. Maybe among the few you have asked agree with this, but of the 500k+ people playing the game, you cannot even statistically say that NOBODY is doing this. In fact, I ran a low level duty roulette last night just for fun. So my experience alone nullifies that argument.

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OK yeah i'm not gonna respond to everything because what IS it with people using bad metaphors in this thread, but like... i already conceded this point about all roulettes except high-level. Three times, including in this very post. It's the start of the next paragraph.

like i just don't know how i'm expected to work under these conditions

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Originally Posted by CianaIezuborn

Who has two thumbs, hadn't run DF in over a month outside of full FC, and ran duty roulette level 50 yesterday?

<-- This guy.

I would have preferred to have run with some FC buddies though, 40 minute WP is harsh -_-

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So you'd rather have played with your friends? We're totally on the same page here!

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Originally Posted by CianaIezuborn

Again, this is based on the assumption that your clear times with friends versus random people is the same. For me it is most definitely not, and I would say for most people that group regularly together it is far less in their preformed group.

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... and this in turn is based on the assumption that a random group in DF takes approximately twice as long to clear dungeons as a pre-formed group, which is most likely not the case, on average. In WP, as in your anecdote above, it totally can be that bad, 40m vs. ~20m -- but given that the duty finder bonus is larger than the bonus for actually clearing WP you'd have had to take a little more like an hour to make it an even amount of tomestones/hour.

what's really amazing to me is they add all these things to make people play solo and in the same patch they price these land plots where they expect Free Companies to have 100+ members all donating to the same fund.

how am i going to get to know my fellow FC members if you don't even want me playing with them? and you want me to trust them with my gil too?

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Originally Posted by Norondor

What kills me here is you conceded my point already -- that this system hurts normal players like you because you can't play with your friends as you admit you would prefer without being penalized -- but then you took the opportunity to take shots at couples who are sad they can't share something they enjoy with their loved ones because you wanted to flaunt your mastery of high school level economics. If you expected that to be met with a slowly rising wave of applause, you might want to seriously reconsider the way you look at the world around you, dude or dudette.

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Using the word penalize would indicate some sort of reduction of tomes obtained since 2.1 by entering the duty finder with friends, but as that's not the case your point is moot.

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Originally Posted by Norondor

OK yeah i'm not gonna respond to everything because what IS it with people using bad metaphors in this thread, but like... i already conceded this point about all roulettes except high-level. Three times, including in this very post. It's the start of the next paragraph.

like i just don't know how i'm expected to work under these conditions

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But you haven't proved your point. Plenty of us are doing all the categories of the Duty Roulette. So where are you getting this "Nobody is doing this seriously" stuff from. Don't stress yourself out when you are trying to prove a point with data that doesn't exist.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

what's really amazing to me is they add all these things to make people play solo and in the same patch they price these land plots where they expect Free Companies to have 100+ members all donating to the same fund.

how am i going to get to know my fellow FC members if you don't even want me playing with them? and you want me to trust them with my gil too?

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Again, you are missing the point that all of these are OPTIONS. They aren't FORCING you to play solo, they are giving you OPTIONS to play solo. As for the housing, yes this is FC housing so you must work as an FC to get it. Are you FORCED to get it? No... If you want it, then you work for it with your FC. Are the features for solo players FORCING you to solo??? No. If you want to solo then solo. If you want to play with your FC buddies then do that. They aren't MAKING people do anything. They are just giving incentives to help your fellow solo players out.