Possible level/story jumps....really?

here's to hoping they add jump potions! I see no downside to them adding this to the cash shop, honestly, it's nothing but a win for the game in itself.

Even though this is coming from a guy who has not used the cash shop at all, I support people who do buy stuff. All it means for me is that ff14 gets to report a potentially positive ROI and if this ROI is significant than ff14 may get appropriated more funds per expansion after ROA analytics...my gameplay gets more attention this way...let's go smart business move!

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Originally Posted by Enur

Star Wars the old republic, Guild wars 2, world of warcraft (as you mentioned) all offer a lvl boost. They are also the three main MMO's that come to my mind when thinking "Popular MMO"

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A F2P game, a F2P/B2P hybrid, a game over a decade old.

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Originally Posted by Enur

I see no reason why copying another game is a problem. Especially when its a feature that could draw in more players to the relevant content.

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Are we getting rid of subs? If we're copying that idea as well then sure, I withdraw my objection..

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Originally Posted by Jandor

That a fact? I think they are at least considering it.

"Of course this isn’t so we can make money off players wanting to skip the content"

"Whether or not to actually implement that or offer it as a purchasable option still hasn’t been decided."

http://gamerescape.com/2016/06/17/e3...naoki-yoshida/

Doesn't read like they have decided whether to do it or not, or that they have decided if it should be purchasable if they do. If it's implemented and not purchasable that only really leaves in-game.

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See, my interpretation of that is were it implemented, there would be a charge. Not they're considering a free solution. The devs don't actually have a choice here. Square Enix executives decide whether there will be a cost. And if we look at virtually any MMO offering some means of a skip, be it through leveling, gear or whatever. They aren't offering one for free. The quest example you propose later basically makes it a breeze for bots and RMT to reach the expansions. What will likely happen, in my opinion, is Stormblood will come with a free skip potion and any subsequent will be on the Mogstation for $50 USD

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Originally Posted by Jandor

A F2P game, a F2P/B2P hybrid, a game over a decade old.

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You asked for examples. You can't then say "well, those examples aren't good enough!" FFXIV is currently the only MMO still clinging to the archaic quests unlock everything system, thus you won't get a direct comparison. WoW may be a decade old, but it also utterly dwarfs XIV in popularity. Not to mention, XIV's not exactly subtle with how it borrows ideas from WoW. The whole skip potion conversation stated when Yoshi specifically mentioned WoW doing this precise thing. So chances are, they're moderating how successful it was for them relative to any backlash. Looking at Legion's sales... it worked pretty well.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

"Warning: Accepting this quest will automatically complete all main scenario questlines previous to this. This decision cannot be undone."

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I feel like there is a better way to do this that doesn't lock someone out of going back and doing quest content. If Blizzard and ArenaNet can figure it out, then SE can. >_> They just need to find a way to unflag the "intro to HW" quest so that it can be picked up as soon as one hits 50 (while simultaneously removing the requirements to be on X story quest to unlock dungeons or jobs).

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Originally Posted by Jandor

A F2P game, a F2P/B2P hybrid, a game over a decade old.



Are getting rid of subs? If we're copying that idea as well then sure, I withdraw my objection..

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Right now thers only two, yes two, MMO's that are on a subscription model and are somewhat succesful. These two are WoW and FFXIV. One of these is very succesful and has a "jump potion" for newcomers. The other has 300+ required quests before the endgame.

Can you guess whos who? and can you guess which of the two will continue to draw in new players?

I can. And my answer is World of warcraft. Not allowing people to play the part of the game that was advertized to them is simply unfeasable in this day and age.

Personally, I'm all for them adding one.

While I personally enjoy the main story quest experience, not everyone does. There are many players who skip all cut-scenes and just try to rocket through the plot as quickly as they can. Why not just let them skip it entirely? Who exactly is benefiting from uninterested players being forced to wander back to the Waking Sands for the 100th time, only to teleport away and then skip more dialog? To be frank, I don't lose anything from other players not enjoying the story. I do, however, have something to lose from players getting bored and not queuing for high-level group content. If players want to skip most of the leveling/story, I say let them. They'll still have to level their way through Stormblood. Let the player enjoy what they want to enjoy.

As much as I love the MSQ, it's also the bulk of the problem here. There are 346 ARR Main story quests (counting the patch content), in addition to 129 (currently, there will be more) Heavensward Main Story Quests to dig through, before getting into Stormblood. That is like being forced to play through two entire JRPGs worth of content before being allowed to access the game most players are enjoying. If my friend told me "Hey, play this game with me, but first beat two entire games", I probably wouldn't want to join in.To be frank, if we don't nip the issue in the bud, it will grow into a massive barrier for new players. For players interested in the Heavensward classes, it already is. Players don't like being told to play through 50 levels and 346 MSQs using a Job they don't like, just to access one they do. The lifeblood of any MMO is new players, and we need to make sure FFXIV stays accessible.

So, while I personally wouldn't skip the MSQ myself, I think it should be an option for new and/or returning players. If those players just want to dig into Stormblood, let them. Let them enjoy the parts of the game they want to. If they decide, after watching whatever summary cutscene/introduction that they do want to experience the whole story, they can always just go back and build a new character.

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Originally Posted by Enur

Right now theirs only two, yes two, MMO's that are on a subscription model and are somewhat succesful. These two are WoW and FFXIV.

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You forgot EVE.

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Originally Posted by Enur

One of these is very successful and has a "jump potion" for newcomers. The other has 300+ required quests before the endgame.

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When WoW was at its most successful it didn't need to offer jump potions.

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Originally Posted by Enur

Can you guess whos who? and can you guess which of the two will continue to draw in new players?

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WoW doesn't draw in new players, it had over 12m subs at its peak, the well of people prepared to give WoW a go was run dry a long time ago.
I'd guess that the amount of people playing WoWs latest expansion that have never played WoW before is absolutely minuscule.

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Originally Posted by Enur

I can. And my answer is World of warcraft. Not allowing people to play the part of the game that was advertized to them is simply unfeasable in this day and age.

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I haven't argued against letting players skip chunks of the story, I haven't argued that players should be denied access to all expansion content. I was one of those who argued that Ishgard and the 3.0 jobs should have ways of accessing them before completing the 2.X MSQ over a year ago.

I'm just saying that SE shouldn't be selling fixes to these problems, they should just be fixing them.

(Honestly, the 3.0 jobs... DRK would have fit Ul'dah perfectly, being dicks to refugees is like Ul'dahs thing, Astrologian could have started at the Observatory in Coerthas Central and there is a guild of gun users in Limsa ready and waiting for Machinist.)

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

You asked for examples. You can't then say "well, those examples aren't good enough!" FFXIV is currently the only MMO still clinging to the archaic quests unlock everything system, thus you won't get a direct comparison.

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I didn't say the examples were not good enough, I was showing they all have somewhat exonerating reasons/excuses. The F2P games don't have the same steady revenue streams and the ancient MMO behemoth has literally millions and millions of nostalgic ex-customers to try and lure back.

As I said, if we're going F2P or B2P consider my objections to this withdrawn.

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I feel like we're all just repeating ourselves at this point. I'll make my decisions regarding my money when the time comes, as will others, that's all any of us can really do I suppose. Not like anyone important is actually reading this shit anyway ;).

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I miss the 2.0 to 2.4 period, when a big MMO from a major publisher existed without microtransactions :(.
Hell, forget MMO's, a major game from a major publisher was novel enough.

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Originally Posted by Jas710

Because new people beelining it to HW just want to unlock the damn jobs and move on to playing what it is they paid for. They signed on to play 3.0, and ARR is a barrier.

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Well you can't buy 3.0 by itself and play it as a stand alone, unless they bought the base game and then the expansion separately (which still need to install base to install expansion) cause when expansion release a bundle is released. Which is Final Fantasy XIV + Heavensward it new expansion not Heavensward (oh and it old base game). If person wants to view it as a barrier then I guess that their loss. It just another one of those people failing to be a informed consumer on what they are buying..

It is up to the player to skip MSQ or not. Giving people a choice is not bad. You can please both parties this way. If you are against it without a valid reason I'll assume is it because you think it is not fair that you had to go through the MSQ and they can simply skip it.

Because reasons like "They don't know how to play their jobs." are weak. They will improve at some point. Everyone was once a newb.

Just to clear something, leveling in this game is not hard at all. So leveling is not the main issue here, it is the MSQ.
Going through ARR + Heavensward might be a turn off to some players and you will find people complaining about how long the route is to reach Stormblood. They might even stop halfway. Unless SE do something about content being locked behind MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Claymore65

While I personally enjoy the main story quest experience, not everyone does. There are many players who skip all cut-scenes and just try to rocket through the plot as quickly as they can. Why not just let them skip it entirely?

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This.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

(Honestly, the 3.0 jobs... DRK would have fit Ul'dah perfectly, being dicks to refugees is like Ul'dahs thing, Astrologian could have started at the Observatory in Coerthas Central and there is a guild of gun users in Limsa ready and waiting for Machinist.)

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Honestly, there is a way to fix this, because Ishgard is accessible directly from central Coerthas. But, it's a bit of a cheat since Steps of Faith theoretically opens the gateway to Ishgard. Since Ishgardians can obviously come and go without problem, actually entering Ishgard isn't an issue. Entering Ishgard with any hope of the locals talking to you or helping you in any way on the other hand should be a problem unless you complete the Steps of Faith.

So, it could have been possible to allow players to access the new jobs in Ishgard, while at the same time locking players out of any other Ishgard content until Steps of Faith is completed. Basically no doors except those associated with the new Jobs will open for you (assuming you have at least one other DoW/DoM job/class at level 30), and none of the quest givers, or non-trivial NPCs will speak more than two words to you. Because without completing Steps of Faith, you are essentially a nobody to Ishgard. The same goes for vendors, anything other than job specific gear for the 3 new jobs would be unavailable until Steps of Faith is completed.

I'm not sure about the level cap, I would probably have left the level cap at 50 until you complete the Steps of Faith as well. In that way, you can get to 50, obtain the new jobs and complete any raid content available in 2.X with your friends, but you have to compelte Steps of Faith to unlock other areas in Heavensward beyond Ishgard itself, and to unlock the new story elements, story related content and level cap.

It's a kind of halfway accommodation, that still requires players to complete Steps of Faith before experiencing the HW story content, but it also allows new players to quickly obtain the new jobs without having to slog through the entire 2.x story line to get them. By quickly obtain, I mean as soon as they can get one job/class to 30 and survive wandering through Coerthas to the gates of Ishgard.

The down side is that to play HW content and the new raid content, you have to work through the 2.X MSQ, but if you are already leveled to 50, nothing involved in that should be time consuming or difficult. Plus you can practice your new job while doing it.

StormBlood could do something similar, depending on how the new zones and 'city' are structured of course.