Bard - they broke my job

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

Actually, it really is.

Remove the cast times from abilities while under WM, give back auto attacks during it, make it so you can't play other songs while under WM.

Anyone who doesn't like the caster playstyle is now satisfied that the class is back to how it was before and they didn't just get the rug pulled out from under them.
Any concerns about how hard OGCDs are to weave in with cast times is nullified.
And the class becomes far more useful in the 95% of content that doesn't require TP/MP batteries, while still retaining the eventual damage drop when those songs do become necessary.

What's so hard about that? It solves every complaint from both Bards AND non-Bards who don't like the relatively low damage of Bards making DPS checks or burn phases harder.

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Agreed 100%. In the meantime I'm enjoying jobs that don't have cast bars!

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Link it. Actual screenshot parser proof that includes enough relevant data to assess it's validity such as for example the requirement of more than just a screenshot after the initial first DPS burst. The length of time and sustainability is not only relevant but also very important. Then link many more to prove it was not a glitch, sample size always needs to be more than one. Following that list the gear of player involved and their skill rotations, food/potion and 3rd party buffs used and had on at the time so it can be repeated and tested by others to exclude the chance of photoshop fake figures being used as evidence. The last part is by far the most important and you must at least be able to supply that information at a bare minimum.

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How was it so hard to believe? All that multi doting should scream dps potential to any bard.

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Originally Posted by Chairman_Meow

Yeah... for the first minute of the fight.

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really?

It's not my parse, but the point is it's showing that bard has excellent raid dps potential. And in the least the ppl saying " it's better to bring another melee" might just shut up and try to actually get out there and build up their dps.

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

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While this does manage to be a dps increase with no songs up and a slight dps decrease with one up compared to WM now while retaining mobility, there is one problem I have with this fix: Choosing between buffing ourself and buffing someone else. No other job has to deal with that. For example, in the BLM thread there is a parse of Ravana Ex that shows a single BLM parsing around 1k. If he is your only magic damage (you get healers that think their damage is a bonus, no nin, etc) your 15% boost could be greater than his less than 10% boost (I'm going to call it 10% here, the number gets worse if you lower it, not better).


10% of 1000 is 100.
100=.15X
X=100/.15
X=666.6 repeating

If your dps is less than 666 , it's more beneficial to Foe's Requiem for the single BLM than use WM on yourself. Now of course, your DPS probably shouldn't be behind the BLMs by that much to begin with, so you've basically killed Foe Requiem for single mage encounters and possibly mage+nin encounters. No other job has to decide between buffing themself and buffing others, every buff they do is always a dps increase for both. At this point you might as well take the songs away and make us a Ranger.

Re-read Foe Requiem's tooltip. Carefully.

Carefully.

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Originally Posted by Arrik

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If it makes you feel any better it's a common misconception that foes decreases the singers damage, it does not xD

You foe+bv everytime on the pull w/o exception.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

If it makes you feel any better it's a common misconception that foes decreases the singers damage, it does not xD

You foe+bv everytime on the pull w/o exception.

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I never said anything of the sort. He lists WM as cannot be used with other songs. Which would mean, if I wanted to raise a BLM's dps w/ Foes WM would be turned off.

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Originally Posted by Viar

Re-read Foe Requiem's tooltip. Carefully.

Carefully.

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Read his post carefully. If WM cannot be used with other songs, you introduce a situation where casting for another person is a dps loss.

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Originally Posted by Aiselia

Actually, it really is.

Remove the cast times from abilities while under WM, give back auto attacks during it, make it so you can't play other songs while under WM.

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Ah. I just disregarded that idea as something that'd never come to pass, so my apologies.

ugh ok, a sort of on/off switch for us as a "support " dps? alright.

idk why he wants that. Foes + support stuff when needed + our current dps seem ok. I'd hate to not want to give my blm friends foes+bv 2-3 times/fight.

I just hate drowning in unused ogcds and I don't have much faith left in se to fix it. I believe drgs have a similar issue where good play will see the dots fall off. Good play for brd could produce unused bl procs.

But I'm pretty sure another small buff will come anyways, maybe wm brought up to 40%. But it isn't what is needed. The class needs to be redesigned somewhat so that wm FITs us.

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Originally Posted by Viar

Ah. I just disregarded that idea as something that'd never come to pass, so my apologies.

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It's ok, a couple people have echoed that remark so I thought I would address it.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

ugh ok, a sort of on/off switch for us as a "support " dps? alright.

idk why he wants that. Foes + support stuff when needed + our current dps seem ok. I'd hate to not want to give my blm friends foes+bv 2-3 times/fight.

I just hate drowning in unused ogcds and I don't have much faith left in se to fix it. I believe drgs have a similar issue where good play will see the dots fall off. Good play for brd could produce unused bl procs.

But I'm pretty sure another small buff will come anyways, maybe wm brought up to 40%. But it isn't what is needed. The class needs to be redesigned somewhat so that wm FITs us.

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To be fair, with two or more mages it becomes fine again, but if got into an expert roulette with your BLM friend, and a healer that wasn't DPSing you wouldn't sing for your friend anymore (outside BV) the way they want it. I much prefer a buff being an actual buff, all the time, like all the other dps' buffs.

My DRG is only 56, and while playing with the rotation in the DrPS guide I find I clip Chaos Thrust more than let anything fall off, but I'm not very good at it yet. It's on an alt I don't play much.

Yes, I agree they are probably watching for how we do in Alexander before making any more adjustments.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

How was it so hard to believe? All that multi doting should scream dps potential to any bard.

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As someone who does multi-dot a lot, especially useful dealing with trash mobs I know the benefit of cycling through the mobs and applying dots followed by AoE's however in most boss fights there is often a lot of downtime between add phases, some with no adds or adds die so quick your spending most of the time focused on a single target which have a severe detrimental effect on the DPS output if relying on multi-dotting to breach the 1k. He seemed to breach it in the fights which have either a lot of quickly spawning adds or one with dual bosses which remained through most of the fight which to keep those dots on more than one target.

What I will also say is most of my original points remain, his rotation needs to be checked by many and it was one set of parser data from one person which still needs to be verified by others also supplying their parser information to show that his own parser data is accurate on that rotation. I will try his rotation myself later if I get the time to log in and play.