VIERA AND HROTHGAR COMPLAINT MEGATHREAD

Pity all the new hairstyle looks good..
But not on male viera, cuz the hair line is to far up!!!

I like the new Hairstyle on female Viera, it is a very nice puffy short hair that doesn't clip with my glam and also doesn't make my head look like an egg (like certain other hairstyles do). I think it looks good on my character due to her skin tone and hair colour being very similar; so the forehead is less noticeable. But it does look great on Hrothgar, really fitting it also gives the vibes for this being the Hairstyle of a "charming knight" type of character since it makes them look masculine and handsome! It seems to translate well on male chars, but a lot of female chars can pull it off very well, a nice unisex style. Even male Viera could pull it off with probably the right face presets, hair colour and possibly headgear.

What really annoys me is not that Viera and Hroth can't wear ALL hats in game.
I understand such an undertaking would take a long time to complete (Even though modders managed to do it already, and they don't count with the tools a multi-million company has at its disposal... but let's give SE the benefit of the doubt).
I understand not having ALL hats. What I don't understand is not having AT LEAST the new hats? Since you're already making them from scratch for EVERYONE else? Do them for Viera as well?? What's the big holdup? You're already modeling these from scratch.
And also about the premium/cash shop hats. These aren't as many as all the in-game hats, cost REAL LIFE MONEY and therefore there's really NO EXCUSE not to have them in.
I want to wear my Matoya hat, god damn it. But if I play Viera, tough luck, cannot do it, because SE is somehow less competent than 3 modders in their basement.

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Originally Posted by Minali

We don't really have to anymore, unless we want to get a basic hairstyle from another head shape, because this would require a different head. (Because making all basic hairstyles available to all heads is still too much to ask I guess.) At least that's something. Still horrible it took so long for this change to happen.

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This still bugs the hell out of me considering there are the Bozja NPCs with mismatched hair and the fact that they accidentally did this in the last live letter:

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* During the broadcast, we showcased an image of a Hrothgar character wearing the dragoon gear obtained through Allagan tomestones of comedy that featured a combination of face type and hair style that is not available outside of the development environment. We apologize for any confusion this may have caused for our viewers. (Updated Tuesday, May 23)

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I can't image what the holdup is if they're already in the game, aside from the fact that some ears/heads have minor clipping with the different hairstyles, but it's not much worse than how they clip with hairstyles from other races.

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Originally Posted by LinaAkayomi

What really annoys me is not that Viera and Hroth can't wear ALL hats in game.
I understand such an undertaking would take a long time to complete (Even though modders managed to do it already, and they don't count with the tools a multi-million company has at its disposal... but let's give SE the benefit of the doubt).
I understand not having ALL hats. What I don't understand is not having AT LEAST the new hats? Since you're already making them from scratch for EVERYONE else? Do them for Viera as well?? What's the big holdup? You're already modeling these from scratch.

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Because it's not about old and new hats. There's something they've done in the process of making them that means their hairstyles aren't compatible with hats that switch off the upper half of the hair but show the lower half. (Modders seem able to overcome this, but perhaps they do it by going outside of some kind of limitations that the devs hold themselves to.)

Where hats either fully hide the hair or don't affect it at all, they are usually made wearable immediately.

It's why they can wear the Rinascita hoods but not berets; the level 90 reaper hat but not the red mage hat. They're not just picking some to work at random – there's a logic to it.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Because it's not about old and new hats. There's something they've done in the process of making them that means their hairstyles aren't compatible with hats that switch off the upper half of the hair but show the lower half. (Modders seem able to overcome this, but perhaps they do it by going outside of some kind of limitations that the devs hold themselves to.)

Where hats either fully hide the hair or don't affect it at all, they are usually made wearable immediately.

It's why they can wear the Rinascita hoods but not berets; the level 90 reaper hat but not the red mage hat. They're not just picking some to work at random – there's a logic to it.

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I think they could find the time to adjust hats, or at the very least future hats, to fit and work on viera/hrothgar heads if they really wanted to. Doing so would require more work, though, and that's where issues may arise.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I think they could find the time to adjust hats, or at the very least future hats, to fit and work on viera/hrothgar heads if they really wanted to. Doing so would require more work, though, and that's where issues may arise.

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Agreed, if the problem lines with the current hairs then they should fix those, or at least work it into their program to do it. My hope is that they might start middle of 7.0 after we will get all our hairstyles.

With the modders, it is not as hard as dome people make it sound. It is a matter of oppening the files and unticking a button to make it visible on Hrothgar and Viera, then going into 3D moddeling program and making some adjustments.
The problem with that is that the modders don't actually remove the top part of the hair so the program still renders it, which could cause problems with rendering, texture overlapping and performance, just to name a few. The reason it doesn't do as much problems, or at least are less noticable, is because everything is client side, so if it does, it will only cause you problems instead of the whole server.
This is not to say that we should excuse the devs, but more of a perspective on why they can't just copy what the mods do. Not wearing a hat is less worse then the game being unplayable.
I hope they can find a way to put some plan in action for 7.x so that we can, in the future wear hats.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

[...]They're not just picking some to work at random – there's a logic to it.

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Of course there's some logic to it. Of course, it takes work to edit every single hair and head shape for the hats. I get that.

I still hold my ground, at least for PREMIUM, CASH SHOP ITEMS on what already is a Pay to Play MMO, they should be 100% able to wear them.
What's the excuse for not letting us wear, say, the Matoya hat? Even if it clips. Even if you add slits for Viera ears to poke through.
If a modder with a household PC can do it, what's SE's excuse, considering they develop the entire game?

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Originally Posted by Destati

This still bugs the hell out of me considering there are the Bozja NPCs with mismatched hair and the fact that they accidentally did this in the last live letter:



I can't image what the holdup is if they're already in the game, aside from the fact that some ears/heads have minor clipping with the different hairstyles, but it's not much worse than how they clip with hairstyles from other races.

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oh so they apologize for that but not charging hrothgar for two years bc we couldnt use the gd aesthetician thats super.
Also how bout instead of apologizing you just...give hrothgar the same basic character customization everyone else has how bout that.
Why do freaking npcs in bozja have the option but not us what in under god is taking so long that shouldve been something available when the race was added not 4+ years down the line.

Its so fun hrothgar look good in the new hair but just give me Windcaller already give me windcaller in 6.5 dont make me wait til 7.0 for stuff viera have had since May.
Especially since windcaller is obtained in bozja.
Hrothgars home.
The lorebook only mentions bozja.
Give me windcaller already.
Give it.
Give it now its been here since 5.35 why dont the race from bozja have it.

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* During the broadcast, we showcased an image of a Hrothgar character wearing the dragoon gear obtained through Allagan tomestones of comedy that featured a combination of face type and hair style that is not available outside of the development environment. We apologize for any confusion this may have caused for our viewers. (Updated Tuesday, May 23)

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Wait, you're telling me that they unironically gave 2B and other objectively bad hairstyles to Hrothgar (I know about the order, I don't care) but their racial hairstyles, the ones made exclusively for Hrothgar, are not meant to be compatible with each other's head....? what kind of backward logic is that.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Wait, you're telling me that they unironically gave 2B and other objectively bad hairstyles to Hrothgar (I know about the order, I don't care) but their racial hairstyles, the ones made exclusively for Hrothgar, are not meant to be compatible with each other's head....? what kind of backward logic is that.

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"outside of development" ok so its been 4 years why arent thet done developing the way the base racial hrothgar hair fits every face????? It really cannot be this hard.
"oh every hrothgar face has a different slightly skull shape" and? whos dumb decision was that??

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Originally Posted by LinaAkayomi

Of course there's some logic to it. Of course, it takes work to edit every single hair and head shape for the hats. I get that.

I still hold my ground, at least for PREMIUM, CASH SHOP ITEMS on what already is a Pay to Play MMO, they should be 100% able to wear them.
What's the excuse for not letting us wear, say, the Matoya hat? Even if it clips. Even if you add slits for Viera ears to poke through.
If a modder with a household PC can do it, what's SE's excuse, considering they develop the entire game?

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Because it's not about how the hat interacts with the ears, it's about how it interacts with the hair. Matoya's hat is a hat that covers the top of the head but you can still see hair hanging down below it. Therefore it is a hat Viera cannot wear, and being a paid item cannot overcome that limitation. If they could fix it for Matoya's hat, it wouldn't be a fix just for Matoya's hat, it would be a fix for the mechanism of every hat that interacts with the hair in that way.

I don't have any idea what the technical details are, but it seems to be that if it was simple to fix they would have done it from the beginning. They're not averse to giving Viera and Hrothgar headgear where it is compatible – they aren't hiding behind the excuse and giving them nothing at all.

I feel like if there was a straightforward fix to the hair-and-hat-interaction issue, they would have done it. But they're not willing to take the modders' route of just putting the hats over the hair without switching it off.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

Wait, you're telling me that they unironically gave 2B and other objectively bad hairstyles to Hrothgar (I know about the order, I don't care) but their racial hairstyles, the ones made exclusively for Hrothgar, are not meant to be compatible with each other's head....? what kind of backward logic is that.

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"is not available outside of the development environment" - This line is so interesting to me. It basically is now a fact that they are working on it, it is not available yet, but it might be at a later date. If not 6.5 then maybe 7.0. I think they are working on it, but it is still in the developmental stage so they can't be open about it, they could be testing how it fits with different headgear, animation and probably just making sure there are no bugs with it or minimum clipping.

It is not a straight-up "no, you won't get this". But more of "we are working on it and can't say more at the moment". Which I think it is fair, they wouldn't want to add hype to something that might not be accessible for a while, at least until it'll be close to release. Also, them apologising for the misconception and getting people's hopes up is good and seems genuine, unlike the ear fiasco this seems to be a genuine mistake with no intention to cause distress or hurt the players.

This is in no way to excuse the fact that this should have been done on day -1 of Hrothgar's release. No race in this game was released in such an unfinished and unpolished state as Hrothgar where they couldn't even use their own hair and had to pay IRL money for around 2 years just to change their hair. I am glad that they solved that issue, but they could have had it be a bit higher on the priority list than it was. Especially since we could clearly see that it was possible in Bozja. And since all NPCs in this game use the same CC as the players to be created, it is clear that the Hrothgar hair was supposed to come much sooner, but for some reason it got pushed back. There is hope for 7.0, but not a lot.

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

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Not necessarily. The devs could have just been playing around with different parts. It would be nice to think that they are working on it all though. :p

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Because it's not about how the hat interacts with the ears, it's about how it interacts with the hair. Matoya's hat is a hat that covers the top of the head but you can still see hair hanging down below it. Therefore it is a hat Viera cannot wear, and being a paid item cannot overcome that limitation. If they could fix it for Matoya's hat, it wouldn't be a fix just for Matoya's hat, it would be a fix for the mechanism of every hat that interacts with the hair in that way.

I don't have any idea what the technical details are, but it seems to be that if it was simple to fix they would have done it from the beginning. They're not averse to giving Viera and Hrothgar headgear where it is compatible – they aren't hiding behind the excuse and giving them nothing at all.

I feel like if there was a straightforward fix to the hair-and-hat-interaction issue, they would have done it. But they're not willing to take the modders' route of just putting the hats over the hair without switching it off.

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The so called "modder's route" involves more than just putting hats on hair without switching it off and is literally the way it works on every single hair ever made that's not on for viera or hrothgar, I really wish people would stop defending SE it's pure laziness nothing more, the only excuse is they can't just do it for 5 hairs and have it working for those 5, they need to do it on all. If you do the math it's not a small number, but they're creating a bigger backlog for themselves with each hair put on these races...

It's just so exhausting with all these cope posts about how supposedly SE can't do this when random hoodlums who have 0 game dev experience can do it, and that people act like somehow what they do isn't using the exact same mechanism that SE itself does.

Well the 7.0 features announcement is here. They managed to break headgear into 2 slots but still seem to have no interest in letting viera wear job gear.

I'd say I told you so to the people who said to wait till 7.0 but I'm sure they're going to come up with another excuse why this is still ok.

One small hope I have now is we will get unbent spines in 7.0 bc the hrothgar spotted walking past alisaie stood straight and didnt lumber or sway his arms awkwardly as is the current hroth walk cycle.
I see people having hope we'll get hats in 7.0 but the hat that hroth wore didnt show his hair...so we could already wear it ala most helms or the rinascita caster habit.

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Originally Posted by XianRo

One small hope I have now is we will get unbent spines in 7.0 bc the hrothgar spotted walking past alisaie stood straight and didnt lumber or sway his arms awkwardly as is the current hroth walk cycle.
I see people having hope we'll get hats in 7.0 but the hat that hroth wore didnt show his hair...so we could already wear it ala most helms or the rinascita caster habit.

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Crazy theory, but they might separate the Hrothgar clans into Bozjan natives and Tural natives. The Bozjan natives keep their Hunch, but the Tural natives stand straight. I say that because I saw the one standing straight behind Alisae, but there was also a hunched one in the background.

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

Crazy theory, but they might separate the Hrothgar clans into Bozjan natives and Tural natives. The Bozjan natives keep their Hunch, but the Tural natives stand straight. I say that because I saw the one standing straight behind Alisae, but there was also a hunched one in the background.

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It would be awesome to have the option! I cant imagine the hrothgals having a hunched back, so I hope they added that and it wasn't just an oversight for the trailer!

Okay, rewatching the Graphic update made me pause, please tell me I am not the only one who noticed this, like what did they do to the bun boys eyes? One is bulging out of their skull while the other one has sunken in.

https://i.imgur.com/5TKo6Pa.png
https://i.imgur.com/MaG5Bgn.png

Two new dye channels, Multiple graphics updates. New glasses AND hats....yet viera and hrothgar still cant use hats.....

I wonder if the glasses are the "headgear solution". I certanly hope not but let's just see. Conceptually nice and useful for all, but not a solution for missing hats.

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

Crazy theory, but they might separate the Hrothgar clans into Bozjan natives and Tural natives. The Bozjan natives keep their Hunch, but the Tural natives stand straight. I say that because I saw the one standing straight behind Alisae, but there was also a hunched one in the background.

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They're still going to be the same character models using the same animations.

Trailer animators can make mistakes on getting details right, especially for a background character.

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

Okay, rewatching the Graphic update made me pause, please tell me I am not the only one who noticed this, like what did they do to the bun boys eyes? One is bulging out of their skull while the other one has sunken in.

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Improved graphics with improved shadows! Won't it be great?

No, that looks like exactly what I've been fearing all along. It's already hard enough to get faces nicely lit in Gpose; now every detail of the face casts a shadow.

I don't think I have seen any new Hairstyles for Hrothgar or Viera in this new Live Letter. But they seem to be on track with adding them, so I am not too worried.
Though if they do add them, what would be your wish?
I know Hrothgar will get the hairs Viera got in 6.3, I think. But what would Viera players wish to get?
My top picks would be:
-Form and Function
-Y'Shtola/Thancred's hair
-The Gyr Abaian plait
and
-Lexen Tail's

Have they announced any before the previous patches, or just dropped them in with a mention in the patch notes? I don't remember.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Have they announced any before the previous patches, or just dropped them in with a mention in the patch notes? I don't remember.

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They usually show like 2 of them in the LL itself, and then an image in the prepatches.

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Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Have they announced any before the previous patches, or just dropped them in with a mention in the patch notes? I don't remember.

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They usually don't even get a mention in the patch notes. They'll say "hairstyles" and show screenshots of a couple, but the rest are just slipped in and you have to figure out what else has appeared in the list of equippable hairstyles.

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

I don't think I have seen any new Hairstyles for Hrothgar or Viera in this new Live Letter. But they seem to be on track with adding them, so I am not too worried.
Though if they do add them, what would be your wish?
I know Hrothgar will get the hairs Viera got in 6.3, I think. But what would Viera players wish to get?
My top picks would be:
-Form and Function
-Y'Shtola/Thancred's hair
-The Gyr Abaian plait
and
-Lexen Tail's

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My gut tells me that at least one (or two) of these will be released in 6.3.

I collected most of them, just in case.

For those who asked it is not unusual to not get a preview of any of the Viera hairstyles pre patch notes. They have given us a sneak peak in the alliance raid glamours before, but there was no female Viera among the selected races this time so no hairstyle. We do have a preview of a new universal Hrothgar hair. It's one of the expected styles and a solid indication Hroths are getting the 6 6.3 Viera styles this patch. Also featured should be Styled For Hire, Saintly Style and Adventure on the MA side of things.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5-W6doX...g&name=360x360

Once again hoping for Gyr Abanian Plait, Form and Function and Minfilia's style. We'll see two styles previewed in the patch notes and the remaining 4 won't be known until folks check in with Jandelaine. Adding that they've broken the release order pattern they established with the universal hairstyles a few times the last couple patches so I really have no clue what 3 styles they might add. They could go back and fill in those gaps or keep skipping ahead.

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Originally Posted by Caro178

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5-W6doX...g&name=360x360

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YASSSS that's one of the 6 hairstyles I've been waiting for, so excited!

https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-25-2022/UP5WOK.gif

https://media.tenor.com/vqeev_89AP0A...d-adorable.gif
I can't wait. The anticipation is killing me!

I don't know if this is a hot take, but I think Hrothgar should have been getting unique hairstyles, even if that meant slower updates. They look just awful with 99% of the hairstyle the other races get. Now that ship has sailed and you guys OK'd the current solution they're never gonna get proper unique styles that actually match their design anymore.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

I don't know if this is a hot take, but I think Hrothgar should have been getting unique hairstyles, even if that meant slower updates. They look just awful with 99% of the hairstyle the other races get. Now that ship has sailed and you guys OK'd the current solution they're never gonna get proper unique styles that actually match their design anymore.

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I really dont think anyone should ever have expected unique assets for the "adopted child we hide in the basement when company comes over" race.
Its BAD ENOUGH we're two patches behind middy no.6 and I wont get the one hair I wanted all endwalker (windcaller) til next Summer, I would never ask for..what, 1 unique hair a patch over 6 people might like.
At the end of the day people of every player race want to use the items they bought or earned ingame regardless of race or gender and I really think getting nothing on ew launch and then the ear debacle of 6.1 should tell everyone to not ask for unique assets because they can give male middies 10 faces and no one else gets anything special.

Really hope hroth and viera get hats in 7.0, hope they announce that next fanfes.
In 6.5 the new pvp gearset for at least tanks has a Sho Minamimoto hat+hood BUT it shows the smallest bits of hair on the miqote modelling it so ofc our races wont get to use it and I love tanking I wouldve loved to use that in glam.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

I don't know if this is a hot take, but I think Hrothgar should have been getting unique hairstyles, even if that meant slower updates. They look just awful with 99% of the hairstyle the other races get. Now that ship has sailed and you guys OK'd the current solution they're never gonna get proper unique styles that actually match their design anymore.

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It's hardly a hot take when that was literally the original compromise* to the "Hrothgar and Viera can't use head gear at all" restriction. The devs just backpedalled hard when realizing they bit far more than they could chew and daddy Square saw the hospital bill.

*allegedly, since Yoshi P then claimed 'mistranslation' ...3 years after the fact

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Originally Posted by Allegor

It's hardly a hot take when that was literally the original compromise* to the "Hrothgar and Viera can't use head gear at all" restriction. The devs just backpedalled hard when realizing they bit far more than they could chew and daddy Square saw the hospital bill.

*allegedly, since Yoshi P then claimed 'mistranslation' ...3 years after the fact

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Now they need to backpeddle harder and make headgear work in 7.0
Tural is a hrothgar (and mamoolja) civilization.
We CANNOT be going into a hrothgar expansion and still have two player races that cant use all the new headpieces the laziness would be staggering.

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Originally Posted by XianRo

Now they need to backpeddle harder and make headgear work in 7.0
Tural is a hrothgar (and mamoolja) civilization.
We CANNOT be going into a hrothgar expansion and still have two player races that cant use all the new headpieces the laziness would be staggering.

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There is a slight bit of hope in the headgear department. If you look at the trailer almost all Hrothgar have a headpiece. No other trailer showed them with that, so this was a new thing. That and the new visual improvements make me believe they might start adding some headpieces. Like the hairstyles, bit by bit with every patch. And probably only the most popular ones.

An update to the ongoing male Viera hair list for those curious. There's a female list somewhere, but I can't track it down at the moment so this will have to do. They've skipped around a bunch lately with the default aesthetician styles so I really have no idea which ones they'll choose. We aren't missing a whole lot of modern aesthetics anymore but there are a couple very popular ones I hope to see included in this patch. Praying it's not a big dud patch of... *shudders* Wedding and Curls.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F7JvRhPX...jpg&name=large

My best effort at the math on what is still missing: 8 modern aesthetics, 5 of which are from the online shop or a time restricted event; 18 base game, 1 of which may have been purposefully skipped because the female equivalent includes a headband directly through the ear holes.

I really hope they give us and Hrothgar an extra update in 6.55 so Hroths can get the much requested Bozja mullet and we can all be left a bit more satiated before 7.0. If not this will probably be the last update these two race's get before Dawntrail next summer.

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Originally Posted by Caro178

An update to the ongoing male Viera hair list for those curious. There's a female list somewhere, but I can't track it down at the moment so this will have to do. They've skipped around a bunch lately with the default aesthetician styles so I really have no idea which ones they'll choose. We aren't missing a whole lot of modern aesthetics anymore but there are a couple very popular ones I hope to see included in this patch. Praying it's not a big dud patch of... *shudders* Wedding and Curls.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F7JvRhPX...jpg&name=large

My best effort at the math on what is still missing: 8 modern aesthetics, 5 of which are from the online shop or a time restricted event; 18 base game, 1 of which may have been purposefully skipped because the female equivalent includes a headband directly through the ear holes.

I really hope they give us and Hrothgar an extra update in 6.55 so Hroths can get the much requested Bozja mullet and we can all be left a bit more satiated before 7.0. If not this will probably be the last update these two race's get before Dawntrail next summer.

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They really should add more options in 6.55 considering its in JANUARY and Dawntrail wont be til probably July/Early August (if you think dt is dropping June you live in a beautiful dream my friend).
Ideally theyd just give h/v 12 styles this patch bc of how far off dt is.
Then hrothgar would get both hairs I actually wanted all two years of endwalker (pvp feathers and bozja mullet) and viera...well idk what men want but I know all the ladies want ysholta or athenas hair whos MA name escapes me.
Windcallet id all I've really wanted and I dont wanna wait til next summer for a hair thats been in the game since 5.35 come on now.