New Player Experience Sucks! - Impending Expansion Problems

like I said SE can keep the MSQ as it is, but let players unlock other contents as they level up, done

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Originally Posted by linay

Except you can buy and play Warcraft 3 without ever having to touch Warcraft 2. The same is not true for FFXIV and its expansions, so it's improper to view it as something that it's not and then judge it based on how well it fits the criteria of that wrong view. That's like saying you should just be able to go to the end game of any game without having your character go through the game.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Keep in mind I see after a certain amount of content as a new game, this is why I keep bringing up games in a series. So I do think it is fair to see having to do 100+ hours of content you dont want to do to get to the expansion you did as a fair vision of an accessibility issue. Like Rokke said he came to this game to do the dragon content and had to trudge through ARR to get it.

The longer we go the bigger the time requirement of course. Also I'm not thinking of an accelerated start to drop people at end game but to put them at the gates of fairly new stuff that they were getting into the game for like Rokke's story (so they avoid say 100 hours of msq but still have some more related to their interest hours to go till end game). Again to me I shouldn't have to play warcraft 2 to get into warcraft 3, and I see at a certain point FFXIV should be seen in units like that because it's too freaking big otherwise lol. If you want wc3 then you should have to invest in wc3, that doesn't require investing wc2 though.

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...Isn't that basically his point, that ARR, HW, and SB, etc. combined are too big at this point to feel like a single game (or, to leave you time to feel like you're really investing in any one of the expansions)?

In my opinion, though, it's more alike to the 3 releases of Starcraft II, where each gave one of the three races' individual campaigns and cumulatively updated the shared multiplayer experience. The stories are separate, but the backstory behind them are far too interlinked to feel wholly invested in any later step without the ones before it.

It's amazing how many of my friends enjoyed the aesthetics and vibes of the game but just couldn't trudge through that ARR MSQ, either dying out before the MSQ could improve, with/around the Mor Dhona rescue mission, or else during the ARR HW-prep slogfest. But at the same time, I cannot rightly recommend that they get jump potions and skip it all, even if that option were free. There's too much to lose there. It's just muddied and muddled down by being stretched too long and with too many irritants.

Going to ask those that want msq optional/changed are you wanting it to remain as it is now where its 1 long questline with potential pruning or you asking for it like Tera where once you hit new level new msq pops up regardless of where you at?

Asking for msq to be completely optional is asking for a huge change to a lot of different things i've outlined some in a previous post but i'll reiterate you are asking for
-All zones become freely accessible, HW and SB have clear gating with where you can go, ARR is actually the most open about this
- All dungeons/trials get a secondary unlock quest if they were part of the msq, more npcs more dialogue more translations etc etc
-toto rak/stone vigil have default 2nd boss intro cutscene
- Quest gates removed and replaced with level gates, every single side quest in the game changed and any msq quests with triggers attached changed too
-Aether currents modified to new system, Sea of Clouds having new way to traverse between Ok'Zundu and Camp Cloudtop/ The Fringes having alternate pathway between bridge sides
-Grand Companies/retainers unlock changed
-Tutorials altered to new triggers
-Npcs spawning changed, the tomestones/side quest people
- Expansion unlocks changed, the job quests etc
- add in a gameplay gate randomly, stuff like will of the moon etc etc

This is a lot to ask for and would probably take away from something else in the expansion this was done in and this is why i'm most against it being made optional i'd rather have something else going forward than something a lot of players currently playing would not benefit from.

if your asking for pruning i can see where that could be in ARR, HW and SB though i don't think you can do much they are much shorter and i never really hear complaints anymore about their leveling process (HW had the worst leveling on launch now not so much). This would require far less work and with the writers of ffxiv seem to know whats going to roughly happen beyond 5.X series having them look at older content to streamline is not going to affect much.

If your asking for it to be like Tera then [SPOILERS]

You could get stuff like Gauis being ready to unleash ultima weapon/ thancred being possessed while meeting Gauis in the Burn and Thancred being unconscious.

Minfilia being at the waking sands/rising stones and on the 1st all at the same time.

Yotsuyu being both Tsukiyomi and stuck on that island in the ruby sea

Raubahn having 2 arms or 1 at the same time

and more :P

Story would be a mess and the current accepted theory of ARR content is in 1 time bubble while HW content is in another time bubble would be thrown out the window since the above stuff would break their own time bubbles XD This route i never ever want ffxiv to take it would cheapen everything that happens.

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Originally Posted by Crushnight

Going to ask those that want msq optional/changed are you wanting it to remain as it is now where its 1 long questline with potential pruning or you asking for it like Tera where once you hit new level new msq pops up regardless of where you at?

Asking for msq to be completely optional is asking for a huge change to a lot of different things i've outlined some in a previous post but i'll reiterate you are asking for
-All zones become freely accessible, HW and SB have clear gating with where you can go, ARR is actually the most open about this
- All dungeons/trials get a secondary unlock quest if they were part of the msq, more npcs more dialogue more translations etc etc
-toto rak/stone vigil have default 2nd boss intro cutscene
- Quest gates removed and replaced with level gates, every single side quest in the game changed and any msq quests with triggers attached changed too
-Aether currents modified to new system, Sea of Clouds having new way to traverse between Ok'Zundu and Camp Cloudtop/ The Fringes having alternate pathway between bridge sides
-Grand Companies/retainers unlock changed
-Tutorials altered to new triggers
-Npcs spawning changed, the tomestones/side quest people
- Expansion unlocks changed, the job quests etc
- add in a gameplay gate randomly, stuff like will of the moon etc etc

This is a lot to ask for and would probably take away from something else in the expansion this was done in and this is why i'm most against it being made optional i'd rather have something else going forward than something a lot of players currently playing would not benefit from.

if your asking for pruning i can see where that could be in ARR, HW and SB though i don't think you can do much they are much shorter and i never really hear complaints anymore about their leveling process (HW had the worst leveling on launch now not so much). This would require far less work and with the writers of ffxiv seem to know whats going to roughly happen beyond 5.X series having them look at older content to streamline is not going to affect much.

If your asking for it to be like Tera then [SPOILERS]

You could get stuff like Gauis being ready to unleash ultima weapon/ thancred being possessed while meeting Gauis in the Burn and Thancred being unconscious.

Minfilia being at the waking sands/rising stones and on the 1st all at the same time.

Yotsuyu being both Tsukiyomi and stuck on that island in the ruby sea

Raubahn having 2 arms or 1 at the same time

and more :P

Story would be a mess and the current accepted theory of ARR content is in 1 time bubble while HW content is in another time bubble would be thrown out the window since the above stuff would break their own time bubbles XD This route i never ever want ffxiv to take it would cheapen everything that happens.

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it wouldnt require most of what you are talking about. They already have a means to unlock content associated with story without doing that.

scenario skip +New game plus is all you would need.

however, after looking at their store, i guess they wont do it. It actually says that its targeting new players who are daunted for the exact reasons

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From A Realm Reborn to Heavensward to Stormblood, FINAL FANTASY XIV is a game rich with stories and adventure. By the same token, this can prove daunting for new players who wish to catch up with friends already playing the game, or those who simply wish to jump into the latest challenges the game has to offer.

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so basically they understand the flaws their system creates, and are selling the answer. I feel thats kind of ehhh for a game with a box price and a subscription fee, but oh well.

I think they are losing more than they gain, after all someone staying two months longer is worth more than a story skip, not to mention those whose friends tell them not to start unless they also get scenario skip. But its up to them.

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Originally Posted by DavidIven

like I said SE can keep the MSQ as it is, but let players unlock other contents as they level up, done

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Except that some of the side stories rely on MSQ progress because it can affect what state the characters are in.

Most notably, the Crystal Tower specifically involves Nero after his (and Gaius's) defeat at the Praetorium, and getting to that story too early would put him very out of place.

If they do something like this, I wouldn't want them to put any more work into it than offering a mog station credit of some sort that would allow for a free story and level skip with a new expansion purchase. The credit could be used for something else if the player didn't want to skip anything. It also serves to point them to the mog station optional items so they know what's available there.

I've taken seven alts through ARR's msq (three of them through HW as well and one through SB) without any story skips. The first few times, I watched most of the cutscenes because I like the story. When I was trying to rush a couple of them through so that I could do the FFXV event, the easiest way to burn through msq was to purchase a level skip, unsync all the dungeons and trials, and skip all cutscenes. ARR can be done in a single day at that point (minus the patch content).

I do think that ARR in general (and the post-ARR patches in particular) could use some pruning so that they don't meander so much. Nothing massive, just some housekeeping touches. HW and SB are more or less fine as they are.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Except that some of the side stories rely on MSQ progress because it can affect what state the characters are in.

Most notably, the Crystal Tower specifically involves Nero after his (and Gaius's) defeat at the Praetorium, and getting to that story too early would put him very out of place.

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Very true, it’s clear people making the “level requirement only and not MSQ progression” argument are skipping the cut scenes because they are showing they don’t understand how the side quests/raids connect to the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Very true, it’s clear people making the “level requirement only and not MSQ progression” argument are skipping the cut scenes because they are showing they don’t understand how the side quests/raids connect to the MSQ.

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uhhh it doesnt matter? the idea would be that you get whatever flags msq gives you. If a sidequest needs an msq flag, then you have the flag needed. Yes you may have to do some sidequests, but those are no big deal.

its basically just scenario skip and new game +.

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Originally Posted by Physic

uhhh it doesnt matter? the idea would be that you get whatever flags msq gives you. If a sidequest needs an msq flag, then you have the flag needed. Yes you may have to do some sidequests, but those are no big deal.

its basically just scenario skip and new game +.

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Yes it does mater, the way the story interconnects is super important to a lot of us, what you are basically asking for is a WOW clone.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Yes it does mater, the way the story interconnects is super important to a lot of us, what you are basically asking for is a WOW clone.

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I've never played WoW, nor have I ever had any desire to. Having a non-forced MSQ does not make a game a WoW-clone. XIV is the only MMO I've played that handles it in this way.