Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

I have found repose useful for solo content, but could still live without it. It has been totally useless in 8-man, and 4-man I only use it if I have hate on a mob no one is picking up. Even then, sometimes a one on one battle with a pesky mob while taking care of the group can be fun, if you can forgive the extra gcds you'll be spending. Still best to sleep it, and spam /poke until someone gets the hint :p

Anywho, I echo the others about the usefulness of this skill. Put it in the roles section and give us back esuna!

BLMs still have sleep and the trait that makes it AoE.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

Not really, actually... well at least in the old level 50 "endgame" stuff. If you had a blm in the party it used to be a speed running tactic to gather mobs, run to the boss wall, sleepga then pull the boss and gate them outside the wall. Then they started adding key drops in some dungeons like Brayflox HM comes to mind, now 60+ you have the walls where you have to kill everything before you proceed so... yeah... sleep's pretty useless. Funny thing is I am pretty sure BLMs still have sleep too. =p

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Now that you mention it, I do remember that exploit. Funny how it didn't take them long to address that minor cheat, but they still haven't come up with PvE mechanics that give you a legitimate use for sleeping things.

One MMO I used to play made sleep valuable for interrupting devastating, long-casting skills. In this game it's almost always stun for that, sometimes silence, but I don't see why sleep has to be 100% ineffective. Even if it slept high-level targets for only a second, it would have some use but not be mandatory so as to force the inclusion of a WHM or BLM.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

had the bright idea of removing the damage component from Fluid Aura.

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So many people act like WHM is the only job that lost damaging oGCDs. It's absolutely boggling to me that people have to be reminded several dozen times...

To recap, ALL DAMAGING CC HAS LOST ITS DAMAGE COMPONENT.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

To recap, ALL DAMAGING CC HAS LOST ITS DAMAGE COMPONENT.

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In a game where CC is unimportant and knockbacks are especially undesirable due to how 99.9% of the players play the game, so why not just remove the ability entirely? See our point?

I wasn't aware you had already played the expansion. Please, do tell me how it's worked? One would think that because they removed damage from all CC, it would've had far greater importance. Was the Omega raid that awesome? Oh! And what about Ivalice?? Please tell me there were viera NPCs!

If the sarcasm flies over your head, allow me to point out that with the fairly heavily hinted nature of CC being of greater import, my opinions on repose/sleep staying are decidedly neutral.

Just in case my sarcasm didn't drive my point home enough!

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

To recap, ALL DAMAGING CC HAS LOST ITS DAMAGE COMPONENT.

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I'm still seeing damage and CC on existing things like shield bash/spineshatter dive and blizzard 2/tri-bind/freeze. It's only the new role abilities that seem to not have damage. Fluid Aura isn't a new role ability.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I'm still seeing damage and CC on existing things like shield bash/spineshatter dive and blizzard 2/tri-bind/freeze. It's only the new role abilities that seem to not have damage. Fluid Aura isn't a new role ability.

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Blank. Repelling shot. Head graze. Blunt arrow. Suppressing fire. Fluid Aura. All of these skills are CC. All of these, and more, have lost their damage component. Trying to whine WHM is the only one won't work. They aren't the only one that lost damaging CC.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Blank. Repelling shot. Head graze. Blunt arrow. Suppressing fire. Fluid Aura. All of these skills are CC. All of these, and more, have lost their damage component. Trying to whine WHM is the only one won't work. They aren't the only one that lost damaging CC.

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That doesn't make it cool, though. It's still fine to complain that a skill used only for its damage lost its damage. Bards can and should complain about repelling shot. I mean it's called a shot but it doesn't shoot the enemy anymore, do they load themselves into the bow to fly backwards now?

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

That doesn't make it cool, though. It's still fine to complain that a skill used only for its damage lost its damage. Bards can and should complain about repelling shot. I mean it's called a shot but it doesn't shoot the enemy anymore, do they load themselves into the bow to fly backwards now?

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Blank is unloading a shot gun shell right into the target stomach. Head graze is a bloody head shot. So is suppressing fire. So? All this means is that CC is likely going to actually matter instead of just being boring rotation filler. As a BRD/MCH/NIN main, I'm happy for the opportunity!

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Blank is unloading a shot gun shell right into the target stomach. Head graze is a bloody head shot. So is suppressing fire. So? All this means is that CC is likely going to actually matter instead of just being boring rotation filler. As a BRD/MCH/NIN main, I'm happy for the opportunity!

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wen u wipe the party because the brd/mch/whatever used their silence at the beginning of the fight and couldnt silence mind blast (im honestly kinda excited for the new raids given the changes we got for that sorta stuff. even the situational stuff like aoe provoke and breakga makes me think that theyre gonna add interesting mechanics)

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

some nice sh*t.

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Now we cooking with oil!! Finally some data to interpret !!
WHM
Cure II potency is 700. Also in row 49 you have a typo, your cure potency went down with largesse.

I know both Benediction and Divine Benison have no "potency", but what is your normalization practice for those? For example your Benny has normalized at 1300; but 1300 potency heal couldn't heal a tank from 1% to 100%. Similar with DB it's effect scales with HP and not potency so it depends who you're using it on.

Lets take a tank at 40k ehp (ilv270 tank stance), and we're healing with a ilv 270 set of gear. current 400 potency Cure = 5500 hp. 40k/5.5= 7.27 Cures; 7.27*400 potency= 2908 effective potency (healing 40k ehp). note: benedictions effective potency scales up the lower the healer's ilv.

Likewise with DB, 15% of 40k is 6k. Using current Cure at ilv270 to normalize, we get 6k/5.5k= 1.091 *Cure = 1.091*400 potency= 436 potency (I know this is a bit off topic but look how weak a 15% shield is on a tank with 40k!! HP ....but we crying about losing a 10% shield used on a nominal party member with half the max HP...:mad:)

SCH
You got 2 crit Adlo's out of 9 attempts? And one of them happened to be with largesse active ;);). Since you're using Eos then you have to include Fey illumination (extremely potent skill b/c it buffs everybody's heals not just the sch's) . Largesse last for 40 sec in a 3min window; if you're using a 2.5 GCD that's only 16 GCDs under the effect of largesse; but you have 14 phy + 4 adlo under the effect of largesse?

AST
I think u have to revisit these numbers. Aspect benefic is 200 potency heals, then based on your sect either gives 18 sec of 140 potency (diurnal), or it erects a shield equal to 300% of the heal (Noc). So Diurnal should be (200 + 6*140)*1.1 =1144 (which you have this one right). Noc should be (200+3*200)*1.1= 880; but you got 920.
Also the large+Syn on Noc Aspect Benefic. Synastry provide 40% of pure heals, so it won't influence the potency of the shield erected. You'll get the 10% from sect, 20% from largesse, those two will influence the potency of the shield, but the 40% from Synastry will be calculated after the 30%
buff (not 30+40% but 1.3*.4) (and the animation suggests the same if go and test it out right now). This would make Aspect Benefic while under noc and using largesse and synastry have a total potency of (200+ 3*200)*1.3 +0.4*(1.3*200) = 1144 potency.

(I'm out of time...)

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Originally Posted by Acidblood

While 50% CD reductions in certain situations would be nice, I'm really not looking forward to a rotation of Cure II > Cure II > Cure II > Assize > Cure II > Cure II > Cure II > Tetra > Cure II > Cure II > Cure II > Asylum > Cure II > Cure II > Cure II > Bene > Cure II > Cure II > Cure II > Assize > ...

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Because, it's not a good rotation...(all depend of the difficulty of the fight, of course).

if you want to be optimal, you need to get absolutely 30 sec reduction on Assize because it's the best spell (heal, damages, mp recovery) which profite from lilies.
For the others, it will help if the fight is really tough, but not necessary if the fight is simple.

As I said before, 3x cure II (if possible with no overheal) + Assize every 30 sec. This 4 spells are not cast inevitably in a row.
You are free to cast other spells (Aero, Stone, etc) during the other secondes.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

I wasn't aware you had already played the expansion. Please, do tell me how it's worked? One would think that because they removed damage from all CC, it would've had far greater importance. Was the Omega raid that awesome? Oh! And what about Ivalice?? Please tell me there were viera NPCs!

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Let's not be silly. The use of CC won't change all that much. There's not going to suddenly be some dire use for Fluid Aura now that was sooo important they needed to strip the potency from it.

It was just a way for SE to decrease the number of buttons needed to be pressed in order to reach higher DPS. It's a shame though. We asked for more water spells, and SE takes the only one we had away. They sure are listening!

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

So many people act like WHM is the only job that lost damaging oGCDs. It's absolutely boggling to me that people have to be reminded several dozen times...

To recap, ALL DAMAGING CC HAS LOST ITS DAMAGE COMPONENT.

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I can't even muster the energy to act surprised by this unsolicited and disproportionate outburst.

At the risk of taking your response seriously for a moment, that's not where I was going with my comment. If Repose is the most useless PvE skill in the WHM toolbox, Fluid Aura is right behind it since no one wants knockback outside of the extremely rare helpful application (e.g. T9 golem adds back in the day). Removing the damage from that skill was a headscratching move since that was almost its only value.

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

As I said before, 3x cure II (if possible with no overheal) + Assize every 30 sec.

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Unless we have newer information, the 3 Lilies = 50% CD reduction is only a PvP feature. I don't believe we know yet what changes they plan for the PvE system.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

Unless we have newer information, the 3 Lilies = 50% CD reduction is only a PvP feature. I don't believe we know yet what changes they plan for the PvE system.

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We should in a couple of days though. Yoshi might tell us in the live letter on Tuesday and it should definitely be in the patch notes on Thursday.

Its about time they stop living in the past and give whm something unique. I am done with the pure healer era.It has been going on long enough and I am sure whm mains are craving for more.It is just not satisfying enough to play whm.Whm could use a little more spice.Hopefully changes will occur in future patches if people are not happy with the lilly mechanic.They should at least make it more interesting.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I'm still seeing damage and CC on existing things like shield bash/spineshatter dive and blizzard 2/tri-bind/freeze. It's only the new role abilities that seem to not have damage. Fluid Aura isn't a new role ability.

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While her point was too blanketed, 4/5 of those that kept their CC and damage that you mentioned are GCD spells and weapon skills with MP/TP costs. If you look at the OGCD ones very few survived, Spineshatter Dive being one such example.

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Originally Posted by QooEr

wen u wipe the party because the brd/mch/whatever used their silence at the beginning of the fight and couldnt silence mind blast (im honestly kinda excited for the new raids given the changes we got for that sorta stuff. even the situational stuff like aoe provoke and breakga makes me think that theyre gonna add interesting mechanics)

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Im in hopeful agreement here. We forced this change on ourselves by using them just for damage preventing their use as CC. And if they no longer have to account for them being thrown away, they could be put into more mechanics. Which is also why I think a lot of OGCD CC got moved to role actions, so the odds of missing components in any comp go down. For example there is no longer a tank without and OGCD Stun and Silence possible. If a group fails due to lack of it, it can be rectified by those available. So while it's possible these changes will amount to nothing, I'm at least waiting to see if they take the opportunity to make more interesting encounters because of it.

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Originally Posted by javid

Now we cooking with oil!! Finally some data to interpret !!
WHM
Cure II potency is 700. Also in row 49 you have a typo, your cure potency went down with largesse.

I know both Benediction and Divine Benison have no "potency", but what is your normalization practice for those? For example your Benny has normalized at 1300; but 1300 potency heal couldn't heal a tank from 1% to 100%. Similar with DB it's effect scales with HP and not potency so it depends who you're using it on.

Lets take a tank at 40k ehp (ilv270 tank stance), and we're healing with a ilv 270 set of gear. current 400 potency Cure = 5500 hp. 40k/5.5= 7.27 Cures; 7.27*400 potency= 2908 effective potency (healing 40k ehp). note: benedictions effective potency scales up the lower the healer's ilv.

Likewise with DB, 15% of 40k is 6k. Using current Cure at ilv270 to normalize, we get 6k/5.5k= 1.091 *Cure = 1.091*400 potency= 436 potency (I know this is a bit off topic but look how weak a 15% shield is on a tank with 40k!! HP ....but we crying about losing a 10% shield used on a nominal party member with half the max HP...:mad:)

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Before getting into the math, I think it's important to note that I don't recommend calculating potencies towards eHP. If a cure heals for 4K but because of Shield Oath we state the cure actually heals for 5K eHP, it's a visual misnomer and opens things up to misinterpretation. Likewise, perceived eHP values change based on what CDs are being used. IE - Rampart also decreases damage by 20% so thus one could interpret this as "any healing done would be increased by 25%" which isn't the case all the time. We don't want these inconsistencies when we're trying to accurately gauge how the kits interact.

So, my Benediction Math and Divine Benison math will be adjusted to be more suitable but here's what I'm going for right now. The base tank HP is approximately 33K in full i270 gear.

For Benediction I made the assumption that you would be using it when the tank has approximately 25% HP remaining. 33,000 x 0.75 = 24,750 HP recovered. If a 400 potency cure is approximately 5.5K we math out (24,750 / 5,500)*400 = 1,800 potency in a single Benediction. I'll update the sheet to reflect this.

We can do a similar adjustment for Divine Benison. 33,000 x 0.15 = 4,950 and then (4,950/5,500)*400 = 360 potency. I'll make the adjustment here as well.

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Originally Posted by javid

SCH
You got 2 crit Adlo's out of 9 attempts? And one of them happened to be with largesse active ;);). Since you're using Eos then you have to include Fey illumination (extremely potent skill b/c it buffs everybody's heals not just the sch's) . Largesse last for 40 sec in a 3min window; if you're using a 2.5 GCD that's only 16 GCDs under the effect of largesse; but you have 14 phy + 4 adlo under the effect of largesse?

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I put two Crits just because. I didn't have a fair way to distribute it for the time so I just chalked that one up to "RNG" at the time. I'll make the adjustment in the following:

Under the effect of Largesse, the SCH will use Adlo at the beginning and end of the duration for maximum effect, so two per Largesse. Let's just say you can get one crit out of all the Adlo's in the simulation (not a far cry when we should probably have approximately 10% crit) and I'll chalk that up while Largesse is active.

I've adjusted the number of Physick's under Langreese to reflect the change since it would indeed be 16 GCDs while under the effect of Langresse.

In terms of Fey Illumination, since it affects both healers the total potency increase would be in similar magnitude for both healers and for 8-mans, not something you want to gauge in a SCH-only-vacuum - so it's been omitted for those reasons.

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Originally Posted by javid

AST
I think u have to revisit these numbers. Aspect benefic is 200 potency heals, then based on your sect either gives 18 sec of 140 potency (diurnal), or it erects a shield equal to 300% of the heal (Noc). So Diurnal should be (200 + 6*140)*1.1 =1144 (which you have this one right). Noc should be (200+3*200)*1.1= 880; but you got 920.
Also the large+Syn on Noc Aspect Benefic. Synastry provide 40% of pure heals, so it won't influence the potency of the shield erected. You'll get the 10% from sect, 20% from largesse, those two will influence the potency of the shield, but the 40% from Synastry will be calculated after the 30%
buff (not 30+40% but 1.3*.4) (and the animation suggests the same if go and test it out right now). This would make Aspect Benefic while under noc and using largesse and synastry have a total potency of (200+ 3*200)*1.3 +0.4*(1.3*200) = 1144 potency.

(I'm out of time...)

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I didn't apply Largesse to Aspected Benefic in Nocturnal so I did add that. I actually didn't apply Largesse appropriately for the Aspected Benefic cast in Dirunal either so I corrected as well.

Nocturnal Sect's Japanese tooltips gives 15% healing which is why the math would be (200+3*200)*1.15 = 920 instead of 880. You can find the tooltips here. It would make sense that Nocturnal and Diurnal would have separate healing bonuses under the assumption that if they both were the same, why not just give the potency on the skills the direct boost? Since S-E didn't do that it would logically follow that the sects would have different bonuses (admittedly, S-E isn't always a logical bunch either).

In terms of the rest you'd need to split up Nocturnal with Syn and Largesse up, you'd need to split into three parts. The base heal, the shield, and the Syn. I combined the base heal and shield as a 4x multiplier since (x + 3x) = 4x and separated the Syn term. Once you include the 15% boost instead of 10% boost you'll end up with 1,214 total potency.

Once all is said and done the total changes amount to is:

D.AST
Total Potency: 57,686
HoT / oGCD Potency: 20,112
MP Consumed: 46,560

N.AST
Total Potency: 57,222
HoT / oGCD Potency: 8,500
MP Consumed: 46,560

SCH
Total Potency: 55,314
HoT / oGCD Potency: 22,374
MP Consumed: 54,000

WHM
Total Potency: 53,730
HoT / oGCD Potency: 21,010
MP Consumed: 40,560

[edit] As an FYI, Largesse and Nocturnal bonuses will be calculated as multiplicative and not additive. So Noturnal's 15% + Largeese 20% would be 38% total bonus, not 35%. You can do similar testing currently with Synestry and Nocturnal since Synestry still retains the potency bonus ATM.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

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With those results what I see is that even though WHM spends less MP, AST heals more and provides buffs to the party.

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Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

With those results what I see is that even though WHM spends less MP, AST heals more and provides buffs to the party.

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Yep, pretty much this. Whether the higher MP cost starts to become a detriment to a static will depend on the content design and healer aptitude.

Bear in mind that WHM's oGCDs and HoTs still out performs D.AST by a slim margin though also note that WHM's Plenary Indulgence makes up approximately 20% of that total potency and in order to get those stacks, you need to be healing your target.

Yep, moreover, SCH and AST can provide DPS boost to their party while healing, WHM needs to spend GCD Dpsing.

WHM is a complete mess, WHM needs to DPS to compensate the fact that he doesn't have any buffs. If WHM DPS he loses even more healing potencial, so it actually heals even less than the other healers. It's nonsensical.

There is a lot of interesting ideas, but honestly I don't feel like WHM needs a huge overhaul, just add utility that is common to them in the series.

1.) replace protect with repose making WHM main utility protect. I suggest to nerf it by making it only physical damage and a 3 minute duration to make it similar to the cards or other utility.

2.) Add shell as the magic version of protect and make them overwrite each other.

3.) Give them reraise (already exist in POTD)

4.) Give them arise (long cooldown/no weakness raise)

5.) Make rescue unique to them and replace the role action with stone skin.

There now they have 28 abilities as the other healers and the situational repose has been replaced by something much more useful. As for their new resource the Lilies as others have said just make them proc with HOT.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

5.) Make rescue unique to them and replace the role action with stone skin.

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Absolutely not. Rescue can stay as a role ability. Stoneskin if returned to the game should be returned to WHM.

Let's face it, Rescue will be used to troll people more often than actually assist people. It's a great idea on paper that will see about as much use as th BLM's group sleep. Fun to play with but it shouldn't be our class utility.

That said your raise suggestions are what I hope for.

I'm just a lowly WHM who plays the job because it's iconic. I think what this thread is missing is the the new WHM resource does not look fun.

For the average player like me the Lilly system might as well not even be there because it won't change how I play at all. All it amounts to is that sometimes some of my skills will have a lower cool down. What does that add to the fun of the class?

25% ?? we Just spamming benny? more realistic use of benediction is after a WAR HG or more realistically a Drk LD; both are less than 1% HP; If we can give SCH a crit adlo while under the effect of largesse.....we can can give WHM its full benny potential.

Also in the Media tour tooltips it list both Noc and Duirnal at 15% base heals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKak8KZkgqg&t=80s

And I'll need some evidence to why you're multiplying the largesse by base healing buff? Don't have access to the game atm, but I know this very scenario can be tested with base healing from Noc (5%) + synastry (20% ). If those don't multiply then I don't see why you're multiplying.
Yea fey illum tricky but it helps pet heals too. It's a big loss

I've been a big fan of WHM since the first Final Fantasy, but when I played Final Fantasy XI is when I really fell in love with the job. Currently in FFXI, WHM has so many things to help out its party members like the Boost Spells that can raise any stat (STR, DEX, INT, MND, VIT, etc..), it also has Dia which reduces the defense of an enemy, Haste which increases the speed of auto attacks of party members, Arise which raises party members with full hp and a lesser weakned status (also gives reraise), and of course STONESKIN for mitigation.

The way WHM is right now in FFXIV's new expansion doesn't really intrigue me at all. I'd rather have some sort of buff for my party members that help them do their job better. Also I love being in control of my own abilities. I don't like being gated/restricted by some lame system. Removing Stoneskin from WHM was probably one of the worst things they did for WHM. The least they could of done was give us back the 18% Stoneskin we had instead of it being gated by again... some lame system.

I truly hope that the developers give us WHMs something else other than the lily system. WHMs need some damn love here!

I'm honestly going to really miss Stoneskin and Stoneskin II.

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Originally Posted by Wasselin

I'm just a lowly WHM who plays the job because it's iconic. I think what this thread is missing is the the new WHM resource does not look fun.

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Actually we went over that in detail, of course the thread is so huge conversations end up getting lost lol.
But yes, above all, the Lily system is BORING. AST and SCH both got spells that are fun to use and really nails down their identity. WHM on the other hand gets CD reduction. It's neither identifying for the WHM nor is it fun to make use of.

What a shame really. There are dozens of ideas floating around from not only players, but simply past games. It's ridiculous how they have over 13 previous games that featured WHM and the best that they could pull out of it all was CD reduction.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

I'm honestly going to really miss Stoneskin and Stoneskin II.

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WHM is officially the only healer that provides NO way to AOE mitigate.
Can't even slap Stoneskin on multiple targets anymore.

It's so sad.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

It's ridiculous how they have over 13 previous games that featured WHM

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That's what's so criminal.

I mean, they could give us a Pray system or some shit. I don't know how it would work but at least it's iconic and is known for being party wide healing with no mp cost. They could do something with that. D:

I think it must have been said several times but.

Dev team wants WHM to be a "pure healer". Okay.

Then why stealing him Divine Seal and transform it into largess?
Give him Divine Seal back. 60s and +30%. That's WHM's.

Give him back Stoneskin and just remove Divine Benision.One of WHM problem was that he had a lack of mitigation toolkit, and you took this away from him to give him simili-Stoneskin that need to be build with a RNG system. So please, no.
=> Rework Stoneskin II instead to be a oGCD or something so that WHM could have at least one good mitigation spell.

There was no reason to remove the damages on Fluid Aura. You wanted to get rid of unused skill but you transformed useful one into useless one. Damage back on the that skill.

Plenary Indulgence is the skill that needs to built confessions stack on people based on RNG. It's WHM's bomb heal. (Remember how works Scholar's and especially Astrologian's one ? They don't need to rely on RNG to use theirs.)
While the confession stack seems like a good idea, they shouldn't proc. They should be putted on people when we want to so we can plan when is the time we want the party to have it and when we want to trigger the heal.

Try to inspire yourselves of skills WHM and healers in the Final Fantasy series had.

You see Radiant Shield that Ifrit has? It could have worked on WHM, but named as "Reflect", but for damages in general". This has been discussed several time along the forum.

The sacred Reraise everyone was hoping. No need to die to activate it, it could work almost like living dead. If the target get "killed" by a deadly blow, he resist the hit with 1 HP left. That could be an awesome skill for tank buster or even to cast to save a DPS.

Rework the lilies system. As someone said, it's basically the Spear card, but for WHM only. Considering this is one of the most useless card...
Lilies should grant something really rewarding for himself or his party.

=> Take into account something really important : If you truly want White Mage to be a pure healer and don't want to make otherwise, then there should be a gap between him and Astrologian.
Yeah, I'm basically saying that Astrologian as the hybrid buffer healer should heal more than a White Mage (and I like Astrologian, but since we're talking about balance between healer, you have to consider that you can't be hybrid and healing as efficently as the healer specified into pure and regen healing).

Leave that RNG and proc system for WHM gauge and confession. We're talking about healing. Procs are great for thing like free cure, free succor or things like that, in other words, little gain that won't entirely change the gameplay itself.
To heal efficiently in this game, you plan what you'll do at which moment, if x cooldown... you know it'll come back at x moment and so on.
How do I make my plan if my Assize comes back earlier ? I'd want to use it whenever it comes back, because i'll feel like it'll be a lose of lilies if I don't. But if I use it, I'll have to choose an other skill to heal the next mecanic. Anyway, I think you got my point.

If they want to keep the confession system, and make it have AoE uses, than why don't Medica/Medica II/Cure III add stacks?

I wonder if every WHM whinging at most CC losing their damage component speaks to a deeper problem with the community, wherein meaningless damage is considered to be of greater importance than meaningful CC and skillful use of abilities as the developer's suggested intent to show that there's other things to factor in combat beyond empty damage devoid of both meaning and merit.

Edit: It's still hilarious to me that the only job up in arms about the thought of CC NOT being completely useless is WHM, as neither tanks or DPS appear to be bothered in the slightest by the CC change. People truly do have the most sterling priorities.

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Originally Posted by Keridwyn

Problem is it's not useful. The bind is but the knockback is going to get you on the bad side of groups fast. I actually wish they would take away the knockback and enhance the bind portion.

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That's hardly correct either, though. Knockback is just as much an interrupt on enemies if it succeeds to push them back, meaning that a group running with a MCH or WHM have at minimum three forms of interrupt available in tank stuns, MCH/WHM knockback, and WHM sleep, as well as MCH and tank silence, should appropriate role skills be chosen. If a chosen instance necessitates interrupts, the presence of Blank and Fluid Aura alone could also give more freedom for groups members to choose their role skills. Even a tiny kickback interrupts casts.

Again, we need to wait and see what opportunities are available in the content that's created, once it's available.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

I wonder if every WHM whinging at most CC losing their damage component speaks to a deeper problem with the community, wherein meaningless damage is considered to be of greater importance than meaningful CC and skillful use of abilities as the developer's suggested intent to show that there's other things to factor in combat beyond empty damage devoid of both meaning and merit.

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Problem is it's not useful. The bind is but the knockback is going to get you on the bad side of groups fast. I actually wish they would take away the knockback and enhance the bind portion.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Edit: It's still hilarious to me that the only job up in arms about the thought of CC NOT being completely useless is WHM,

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I don't believe any job was screwed over as much as WHM either.
It's not about us just losing damage on our CC. It's losing it ON TOP OF EVERYTHING ELSE. Hell, it even goes against how other CC skills were changed.
Most of them lost the effect, but kept the damage. We lost the damage, but kept the effect? Wut? If anything shouldn't the push back have gone in crossrole? Why just delete our damage? Why just delete Stoneskin? I can't stand what they've done to WHM, they've stripped us bare.

And you may still not understand, or not want to try and understand, but there's a reason this WHM thread is 2500 posts strong. And it's not because of "whining".

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

Hell, it even goes against how other CC skills were changed.
Most of them lost the effect, but kept the damage.

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Well, no I said whinging, not whining. Bit of a difference. And that's incorrect, most CC lost their damage, and kept the effect, with Blank and Repelling shot being two such examples I named earlier. This also extends to most oGCD stuns, like Low Blow from DRK and Leg Sweep from DRG. And believe me, I'm trying to understand, really I am, but it really seems to me like people are just tilting at windmills.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

That's hardly correct either, though. Knockback is just as much an interrupt on enemies if it succeeds to push them back, meaning that a group running with a MCH or WHM have at minimum three forms of interrupt available in tank stuns, MCH/WHM knockback, and WHM sleep, as well as MCH and tank silence, should appropriate role skills be chosen. If a chosen instance necessitates interrupts, the presence of Blank and Fluid Aura alone could also give more freedom for groups members to choose their role skills. Even a tiny kickback interrupts casts.

Again, we need to wait and see what opportunities are available in the content that's created, once it's available.

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That is correct though. Useful though a knockback interrupt might be you will not use it because people will get angry. Knockback is not a welcome ability. Everything that comes with it is but messing with people's positionals does not end well.

Also a key phrase is 'if'. Most bosses (the thigs you would want to interrupt most) are immune. Want to make it a dedicated interrupt button, I would love that. Way more than damage or bind and certainly more than knockback.

The knocback was great.



in PVP.

In other words, it was primary used for the damages in PVE.
So it becomes useless.