Regarding the Revision of the Prohibited Activities and Account Penalty Policy

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Originally Posted by Katie_Kitty

Sounds like a rule designed to force tanks and healers to tank and heal for people. I'm a human being, not a slave, and personally I reserve the right to leave any duty at any time I desire to for any reason.

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By that same logic, you don't have to play in the first place. You sound like a real winner, and maybe you're one of the reasons why this was instituted. I'm sure you think trolling people is justified as long as it fits your world view.

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Originally Posted by PharisHanasaki

I'm just stating you are spreading incomplete info. They are doing this for the good of the community, they are a business, a business runs on money. Banning everyone for the silliest of things is dumb. And I doubt they will.

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And as the ol saying goes, 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions.'

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Originally Posted by Gemina

No, you wouldn't be susceptible because you DID NOT DO ANYTHING WRONG. Dude, listen. This isn't the media, and the GMs aren't SJWs out to protect every safe spacing idiot who plays this game. I know terms like 'emotional distress' brings about these kind of concerns, but the ambiguity is to keep everyone aware. When you draw a clearly distinguishable line, then people know how far they can go before they cross it.

It is easy tell everyone's over reactions because no one is even talking about the multiple warnings that are issued, and suggested corrective actions before you even face a 3 day suspension. It's just, "Player didn't like my playstyle, so now I'm going to get banned?" Can't you see how over the top that is? Seriously take a deep breath and just chill.

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With those warnings staying on your account forever regardless of whether they were fair or not, with no oversight or appeals process.

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

There isn't anything that I do that I think is problematic. Like I stated earlier in this thread. I have never been contact by a GM, warned, or punished, for anything, ever.

I am incredibly concerned for the potential of abuse that these vague rules create.

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Then you have nothing to worry about, WaterShield. You don't behave badly, according to what you're saying, and you don't do anything that "inflicts emotional distress" on someone. The GMs aren't going to start saying "because X person said they were offended Y person will be actioned"

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Originally Posted by Anger

This whole issue baffles me. If you don't intend to break the rules why are you concerned? Just don't break the rules and you have nothing to worry about.

If you intend to break the rules then there would be cause for concern.

Some of the issues stated are very obvious right-and-wrong topics. For example, a "reasonable" person would understand that Stalking is not okay.

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Please tell me whose standard of 'reasonable' we are following. Is it going to be the iron stomach of an uwu first or is it going to be the mushy stomach of the average Balmung/Mateaus young adult? I'm dying to know. And no one here intends to break the rules! The issue is the rules are so vague that anything is punishable. If I happen to do something most people would find mild but I land a GM that is high on woke culture, you bet your highlander ass I am in trouble. And this is due to the rules covering everything to be offensive and then at the same time having no line as to when it becomes offensive. That's the problem. Not, 'I want to say naughty words'.

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Originally Posted by Anger

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The issue here is that there are rules that are not clearly defined at all. There are even words that require SE's defining to their users so we would know how to comply.

Here is a set below the "Offensive Expression"


・Expressions that provoke or belittle another person, such as excessive criticism, negation/ridicule
There are people in this game that don't like any advice whatsoever, even if the advice is given in a manner that can't be taken as belittlement. Yet, I run into people who do feel that way, regardless how nice I am explaining things to them. That person can report me for feeling belittled.

A GM will need to determine if I am out of line or not, based on the report provided by the initiate of the report (the belittled). Calories and time spent by the GM because SE did not define what is "excessive criticism" was to the player.

・Expressions that significantly lack consideration for another person
Without know who the person is on the other side, how will I know if what I am expressing lack's consideration for another person?

Mind you, that "other person" doesn't have to be present to read the chat for "lack of consideration" to happen.


・Expressions that unilaterally reject another person's opinion
An example was used before about pull sizes. Basically, who's opinion wins if one person wants big pulls and one doesn't? Which is ok to reject unilaterally?


・Expressions that any reasonable person would find offensive
Expressions that any reasonable person would fine offensive in rural town Kentucky, USA may not be the same expressions that any reasonable person would fine offensive in metropolitan New York, USA. Who's set of standards is SE going to use to determine what is reasonable? SE has to define those for us and the GMs to follow.

・Expressions that compel a playing style
Who sets the standard for play styles? The players? SE? Is me asking a Ninja to use ninja spells so they can increase their DPS trying to compel that playing into "my" play style?


・Expressions that contravene public order and morals
Who's standards of public order and morals shall be used? We have multiple different public orders and morals within each Datacenter Region. Canada's public order and morals will not be the same as Mexico's public order and morals. Quebec doesn't necessarily share the same public order and morals as the rest of Canada.

Again, who's standards of public order and morals shall be used for this point?


・Other expressions that are offensive to another person

And here is the big one right here. Super broad, super undefined. Offense is something that has no actual measure, but I can be penalized for it. A GM cannot tell a player who is claiming that I am causing them offense that they are not actually being offended. A GM's view of offense will be different than the "offended."

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Originally Posted by Anselmet

Please tell me whose standard of 'reasonable' we are following. Is it going to be the iron stomach of an uwu first or is it going to be the mushy stomach of the average Balmung/Mateaus young adult? I'm dying to know. And no one here intends to break the rules! The issue is the rules are so vague that anything is punishable. If I happen to do something most people would find mild but I land a GM that is high on woke culture, you bet your highlander ass I am in trouble. And this is due to the rules covering everything to be offensive and then at the same time having no line as to when it becomes offensive. That's the problem. Not, 'I want to say naughty words'.

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Well, how do you treat other people in real life? Do you give them some respect and treat them nicely or are you rude and try to offend them?

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

Adults follow clearly defined laws and are only punished if they break them... and are always able to be aware that they are breaking the law before hand in the majority of cases.

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What? Have you ever heard of contract and/or civil disputes?

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Under the new rules I have no way of knowing if I am breaking the rules or not because they are subjective in nature. Meaning the only way I can be almost certain to avoid trouble is to refrain from speaking to anyone at all. I feel this defeats the purpose of an online game.

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I keep seeing this tossed around like communicative interactions between players is a common thing. When was the last time you walked up to someone gathering from the same nodes you are and started up a conversation? How about they to you? The lack of interactions between players in this game is something that has been ongoing for a long time now, and discussed in detail on these very forums about how to improve it. Guess what though? You know when you run into a random conversation in Limsa, Gridania, or The Reach between two or more players? That's not going to change. But perhaps when you say, "speak to anyone at all", you're just referring to giving players criticism? If so yeah, I would refrain from it. But it does not defeat the purpose for online gaming. We all have our reasons for playing mmos. Just like irl, players prefer to communicate with others they know, and not strangers.

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Originally Posted by Anger

I CTRL+F'd "offend" in the prohibited activities article and that word isn't used once.

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The word “offensive” is used quite a bit, though. And, generally, if one finds something to be offensive, that means usually means that they are offended by it. Don’t be obtuse.

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Originally Posted by Anger

There's a vast difference between someone being "offended" and "having deep emotional distress inflicted upon them".

I think things are being misconstrued a bit here.

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You also cannot provide a concrete measure for “deep emotional distress”, as it varies significantly between individuals.

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Originally Posted by Anselmet

And no one here intends to break the rules!

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Speak for yourself. The amount of trolling and asshattery in-game has been increasing steadily in recent months. I'm sure some form of it is benign when compared to some real cesspool in WoW, but as the subs are picking up players from that game, we'll get the same crowd as well. This is just pre-emptive measures that will keep the community from devolving further, a lesson learned from Blizzard's initial hands-off approach that caused problems which lead to their decreased subscription.