Yoshi P to Mr.Happy "Heal DPS is not mandatory and no expectation for Healer to DPS!"

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

That mechanic only exists in that one specific dungeon, and 99% of people aren't even aware of it because it isn't explained anywhere. No other dungeon has a mechanic like that.

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2 dungeons and a hunt mob actually that I can think of off the top of my head and no it is not described so an easy mechanic to miss. I do hope for more stuff like this in game though as it was rather fun even if some people don't take time to learn things enough to understand why someone is doing something :)

Boy this is a fast moving thread...

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Originally Posted by Elim

Elitist is a compliment so thanks. Also being called a jerk or d-bag makes me giggle so thanks for that too.

How is doing nothing for a large chunk of a dungeon not lazy? If anyone can answer that... I don't blame the players for their behaviour though, I blame SE for making healing so easy that it's possible to be lazy.

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No, Elitist isn't a compliment, elite is.

Elitist (noun) - a person who believes that a society or system should be led by an elite.
"critics portray him as an out-of-touch elitist"
synonyms: aristocrat, blue blood; snob
Elitist (adjective)
1.
relating to or supporting the view that a society or system should be led by an elite.
"older men with an elitist attitude about music"

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Elite (noun) - 1.
(often used with a plural verb) the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons.
2.
(used with a plural verb) persons of the highest class:
Only the elite were there.

Elite (adjective)
representing the most choice or select; best:
an elite group of authors.

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Being labeled or grouped as an elitist is not a compliment. Being counted among the elite players on the other hand is a compliment. The two things are NOT synonymous.

Honestly, since there is no actual enforcement on whether healers should or shouldn't DPS, with the words of a developer saying they don't expect them to, and a GM informing it's fine to kick folks for differing playstyle, this is a heavy grey area. So all in all, it'll come down to the community.

I main tank, as a tank I hold aggro, I use my cooldowns to stay alive, and I do my best to put out the highest damage output I can because I should be giving all the contribution I can. When I DPS I do all I can to kill things the quickest, I use utility to keep the group alive just a bit better like mantra on monk or a instant cast res while on summoner to keep the group rolling. While healing I keep the group alive and reduce damage where I can, and on top of that I DPS when it's good to do so.

I'm on the side that they should DPS when it's feasible, obviously there's another group who thinks they shouldn't have to unless they want to. But the community will in the end choose, and judging by the fact when I wish to vote kick a healer who's been asked to do more and refuses to, and nine out of ten times it goes through, a fair majority do believe healers should give their all. Plain and simple

Mind you, there are dungeons like vault that make it very hard to do so, certain boss fights that can make it very hard as well, or just massive trash pulls a tank may do that makes it very challenging to fit in DPS. Under any of those circumstances I have no expectations they should DPS if they're not comfortable doing so. But if you're able to stand there doing hardly a thing while everyone else is actively doing their roles, you deserve a kick. That goes for DPS who are being slow and lazy, that goes for tanks that don't wanna try to hold aggro or stay alive.

Pandora's box is opened once more. Lazy to read the whole thread but i assume it's the same shitshow, different section.

Always the same thing everytimes, you have the extreme that're so stuck up about healer dps or people that don't play to "their level" that they're abusing the kick system just because they can and then you have the other extreme that are hellbent on not dpsing even with Stormblood making it even simpler to do so, but decide not to because "its not their jobs" or in that case, because YoshiP said "its not expected of Healer to DPS"(even though he's..neutral?). Both sides are just laughable.

At least there seem to be quite a few neutral folks, good.

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Originally Posted by Yurimi

2 dungeons and a hunt mob actually that I can think of off the top of my head and no it is not described so an easy mechanic to miss. I do hope for more stuff like this in game though as it was rather fun even if some people don't take time to learn things enough to understand why someone is doing something :)

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Feel free to list those dungeons and explain what the mechanics are.

Healers that don't dps will always be sub-par and nothing anyone says will change that.

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Originally Posted by IllyriaKnotfred

If you don't wanna dps as a healer, find a group of 3 people and queue with a group that won't care you're being lazy. Don't just anonymously join a group and expect people to be okay with you being lazy. That's why I kick those healers.

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That's obviously fine for this game. I'm just pointing out how stupid their basis has always been, since it means the opposite is possible in an unbiased approach. Poor management doesn't even begin to describe the many situations of potential/plausible abuse associated with the game.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

The sad part about this thread is it not even 24 hours old and already 64 pages

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Well we are talking about a topic that repeatedly provides facts that contradicts peoples subjective outlook, yet is clearly being viewed as objective, so they need to justify themselves over it to somehow still remain "right" in their eyes. IMO, they need to just accept it and move on. Facts are facts, no matter what they think. Thankfully for them, learning to accept it does literally nothing negative and requires no change of how they choose to play. It's the equivalent of trivia. The only thing these facts do is prevent them from stating their opinions as fact... which means it literally fulfilled what a purpose for facts is.

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Originally Posted by Areic

Agreed

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I have no problem with healers being super cautious and only dpsing very minimally because they aren't comfortable. I'm fine with that. What I'm not fine with is the "I WONT DPS AT ALL, I ROLLED HEALER TO HEAL!" mentality.

I main Blm. I have various support at my disposal, Apocatastasis for example. If I had the attitude of "I played Blm to dps! Not support!" I would never use this amazing ability. So healers making excuses as to not use abilities other than heals is infuriating.

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Originally Posted by SigmaOZ

I'm glad the Producer feels this way, no one can force a Healer to DPS and vote-kicking them for such reason should be punishable by the Game Masters, regardless of the "different play-styles" excuse!...

You do realize that vote-kicking for a different play-style reason goes both ways right!?... Both parties have equal rights and can use the same excuse to punish the "offenders"!...

That is why there should be a requirement to write a small report on the incidents explaining the reasons for vote-kicking anyone during a duty!...

Ultimately Healers are there to keep the party alive and burdening them even more in order to DPS should be their decision alone!...

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Except, Yoshi P's stance is a neutral one from a developer's standpoint where he can't officially support one play style over the other. The game is pretty much designed with the intention of Healers doing DPS, they just can't make it mandatory as that would likely involve making the game too difficult for the target demographic. Also, if vote-kicking Healers for not DPS'ing becomes punishable, then that would by logic lead to allowing DPS to do the bare minimum DPS as well wouldn't it? At the very least, it would allow tanks to pull more than the healer can handle and not be kicked for it as that could be their play-style and if you can't kick for different play-style without being punished by a GM, then well this will likely happen. I know whenever I see a healer not doing any DPS, I will begin making bigger and bigger pulls and create a situation where 100% healing up time is needed.

Different play-styles isn't an excuse, it is part of the MMO culture. People have to learn to live with it, that includes all the kicks that are justified by it.

Any official comment is moot by the difference in playstyle clause and I will continue to kick lazy players.