New summoner is unacceptable

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

They rarely make major changes to a job in the middle of a expansion cycle even went it's clearly needed. Thread can make an impact if; the Language speaking mods bring the ideas to the SE team and if the SE Team to include Yoshi-P would get off their damn high horse and really listen to the players feedback. I honestly think success have made the team rather arrogant from their humble beginnings.

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I don't get that vibe from them honestly. Rather, it just seems like they're now taking feedback from players who don't care about the game that much, or who don't know what they're talking about. If anything they should listen less to feedback from players who demonstrably are unable to achieve or excel in their roles. They should not be taking feedback on SMN from people who don't even have it leveled at 90.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

I don't get that vibe from them honestly. Rather, it just seems like they're now taking feedback from players who don't care about the game that much, or who don't know what they're talking about. If anything they should listen less to feedback from players who demonstrably are unable to achieve or excel in their roles. They should not be taking feedback on SMN from people who don't even have it leveled at 90.

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You can't really tell if feedback is given from players who know the class or players who don't know the class. I think summoner is pretty dope right now, but it does feel lack it is lacking something to make it feel more whole.

I like the summoner....

I remember when it first started many people saying all they wanted was real summons and they didn't care if the rest of the job was doing nothing.

It's good to have one easy dps class for people that don't love DPS jobs... and it helps that it is so flashy.

I"ll just let Ruby Rhod say it for me on how the new SMN is:
https://youtu.be/ay4CNqCfE2o?t=154

Seriously though, the main issues isn't the changes made to the overall design. Even though who like the change all but admit it's lacking.
Its the amount of the removed.
It's the lack of any real mechanical design.
It's the lack of respect paid to players who enjoyed the old design.

This redesign was an insult to the player base and the dev team should be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves to push out before it was truly ready. This version of Summoner is befitting FFXIV 1.0.

I have mixed feelings about new SMN. I've been a SMN since I started playing XIV in 2019 and loved it. Acquiring Tri-disaster and Bane made it really fun to poison mobs; by the time tanks gathered mobs, some enemies would already be at 1/2 HP. Trances reset the cooldown for Tri-Disaster. I never had issues managing dots. They didn't seem consistent with SMN lore to me but they were fun. Maybe the job needed simplification but a re-work!?

I agree 100 % with OP; 6.0 SMN just feels unfinished - as if they didn't playtest it. The Primals don't add anything in the way of unique choices, or combos. They play like visual gimmicks and quick ones at that. They appear in little sparklefart clouds, obscuring floor mechanics, and disappear. Needing a target to summon them is clunky too and doesn't make sense. Trances didn't need a target before 6.0 meaning you could prep; they had more flexibility.

Aetherflow is still here but it's just extra busy work when Energy Drain comes out of cooldown. It does proc Ruin IV ... for a VERY brief timer - more restricting than the stack mech it used to have - another loss of flexibility. Primals' timers also restrict the rotation. Although, flexibility would hardly matter since the Primals are barely unique from one another. SMN players don't have choices anymore. The rotation is now just summon, cast procced spell, use skills before timers expire. Repeat. Clunky and stale gameplay.

Worst of all - Carbuncle. It's now our little lost puppy doing nothing for us except we need it to use 90 % of skills. It puts this job at a HUGE disadvantage compared to other casters. I was initially drawn to the job for the pet and now the pet is just an obstacle to gameplay!

Changes I hope for:
Remove Aetherflow; it's unnecessary clutter on the HUD and with the current mechanics, the player does not need to pay any attention to it whatsoever. Or, at least tie Aetherflow to the Primals or Carbuncle somehow. I'd rather have dots than Aetherflow.
Change/remove timers on Primals and Ruin IV. The job DESPERATELY needs more flexibility.
Make the Primals more unique. Maybe unique buffs ? Maybe Geruda is better for mobs, Ifrit for bosses like before? Titan for solo play? Something - ANYTHING to make it worth choosing them.
MAKE CARBUNCLE A PET AGAIN. Right now, the pet is just an annoying requirement and NOT an advantage. The pet has to offer its own auto-attacks or buffs, or SOMETHING, or you might as well play a DPS w/o the pet requirement.

The concept of having Primals in the rotation is cool and brings SMN closer to its own job lore - and makes it very unique from other jobs. But as far as gameplay, there's just no reason to choose SMN over another caster.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

I"ll just let Ruby Rhod say it for me on how the new SMN is:
https://youtu.be/ay4CNqCfE2o?t=154

Seriously though, the main issues isn't the changes made to the overall design. Even though who like the change all but admit it's lacking.
Its the amount of the removed.
It's the lack of any real mechanical design.
It's the lack of respect paid to players who enjoyed the old design.

This redesign was an insult to the player base and the dev team should be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves to push out before it was truly ready. This version of Summoner is befitting FFXIV 1.0.

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Exactly, it was rushed 100%.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

I like the summoner....

I remember when it first started many people saying all they wanted was real summons and they didn't care if the rest of the job was doing nothing.

It's good to have one easy dps class for people that don't love DPS jobs... and it helps that it is so flashy.

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If you don't like DPS jobs, don't play DPS jobs. Catering to people that don't like playing healers or are just terribly at it is what lead us to the current state of healing, which is awful.

Design jobs for people who love playing them.

Honestly it feels like SMN doesn't even have a mechanic anymore. They don't need to keep track of anything, it has no decisionmaking in their rotation.
You just go through the motions of whatever is available to you at the time. It needs something to add a little complexity to it because right now it just feels all shiny & flashy without any substance to it.

A rotation that you can play with one button does not seem like a particularly well thought out rotation.

SPOILERS LVL 83 TRIAL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r3T1X0OXIU

As a start, I would get rid of aetherflow as an actual ability and make the aetherflow points have a proc chance on your other abilities similar to how bloodletter works on BRD. Having a dynamic OGCD would be a huge improvement. I would also get rid of the attunement requirement, and let people cast the primals/charges in whatever order they wished. Right now if you fat-finger a second primal after the first you'll be left stuck with a stack of charges and no way to use them. No idea how that work since in their infinite wisdom they decided to tie all 3 primals' abilities to THE SAME BUTTON.