Tank healing is to high

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

The problem has never been Clemency or that tanks have healing tools. The problem is that encounter design doesn't take into account that tanks have healing tools (and so do some dps outside of SW) and so does an entire role called "Healer".

Content design does not match healer toolkits. So either it should or so should the healer's kit. That has always been the problem and until SE wakes up an address it, it WILL ALWAYS BE the problem.

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Ok, WHY do tanks have healing tools at all then? They don't need them to do their job - which supposedly is to hold agro while the healer heals them. Seems to point to a basic design problem with tanks....


The problem is that most people here think healers are in the game to make sure the tank/dps can continue playing the game as they like. Its the healers job to babysit, not be an equal member of the game.

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Originally Posted by deadman1204

Ok, WHY do tanks have healing tools at all then? They don't need them to do their job - which supposedly is to hold agro while the healer heals them. Seems to point to a basic design problem with tanks.....

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That is not a tank's role in FFXIV. The tank's role in this game is that of blue DPS. You are expected to output optimal damage output at all times. You are also expected to be able to survive by and large without heals for extended periods of time while the healers deal damage and/or babysit injured DPS. This has been the case since ARR.

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Originally Posted by deadman1204

The problem is that most people here think healers are in the game to make sure the tank/dps can continue playing the game as they like. Its the healers job to babysit, not be an equal member of the game.

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That's their job in practically every MMO ever made. Here healers are at least expected to output as much DPS as possible while still seeing to their babysitting duties. There is no "healing" role here. They are green DPS. That's just the way it is. Just like tanks are blue DPS that have slightly more responsibility in that they prevent the party from getting murdered, healers are green DPS with slightly more responsibility in preventing the party from getting murdered.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

That is not a tank's role in FFXIV. The tank's role in this game is that of blue DPS. You are expected to output optimal damage output at all times. You are also expected to be able to survive by and large without heals for extended periods of time while the healers deal damage and/or babysit injured DPS. This has been the case since ARR.



That's their job in practically every MMO ever made. Here healers are at least expected to output as much DPS as possible while still seeing to their babysitting duties. There is no "healing" role here. They are green DPS. That's just the way it is. Just like tanks are blue DPS that have slightly more responsibility in that they prevent the party from getting murdered, healers are green DPS with slightly more responsibility in preventing the party from getting murdered.

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If healers are "green dps", why is there rotation literally 1 button. Every healing job, its 1 friggen button (with a dot every 30 seconds).

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Originally Posted by deadman1204

If healers are "green dps", why is there rotation literally 1 button. Every healing job, its 1 friggen button (with a dot every 30 seconds).

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Every healer main within a 50 mile radius on their way to repeat what they've been saying on every thread:
https://c.tenor.com/Dex8iJnROeYAAAAM/nigga-runing.gif
Jokes aside, it's because the devs think healers should only heal even though there's often nothing to heal.

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Originally Posted by deadman1204

Ok, WHY do tanks have healing tools at all then? They don't need them to do their job - which supposedly is to hold agro while the healer heals them. Seems to point to a basic design problem with tanks....


The problem is that most people here think healers are in the game to make sure the tank/dps can continue playing the game as they like. Its the healers job to babysit, not be an equal member of the game.

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Its not a problem with tank design. Its a problem with content design. Content should make use of the tools we have.

As healers that means our 8-10 healing tools.

As tanks? Their 5 or so mitigation tools plus w/e healing they have.

The point of my post is that content can hit harder but it doesn't because the devs thinks that we can't handle it when our kits CERTAINLY SAY we should.

And I've already gone on record saying that either content needs to stop hitting like a wet noodle or healer kits need to lose healing skills to make room for dps or support buttons. The post you quoted even says so.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

That is not a tank's role in FFXIV. The tank's role in this game is that of blue DPS. You are expected to output optimal damage output at all times. You are also expected to be able to survive by and large without heals for extended periods of time while the healers deal damage and/or babysit injured DPS. This has been the case since ARR.

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This is made up.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

That's their job in practically every MMO ever made. Here healers are at least expected to output as much DPS as possible while still seeing to their babysitting duties. There is no "healing" role here. They are green DPS. That's just the way it is. Just like tanks are blue DPS that have slightly more responsibility in that they prevent the party from getting murdered, healers are green DPS with slightly more responsibility in preventing the party from getting murdered.

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This is also made up.

Tanks primary function is holding threat (which is gone now), tank damage, and positioning the boss. There damage should almost always be negligible in a well designed trinity style game like this.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

Its not a problem with tank design. Its a problem with content design. Content should make use of the tools we have.

As healers that means our 8-10 healing tools.

As tanks? Their 5 or so mitigation tools plus w/e healing they have.

The point of my post is that content can hit harder but it doesn't because the devs thinks that we can't handle it when our kits CERTAINLY SAY we should.

And I've already gone on record saying that either content needs to stop hitting like a wet noodle or healer kits need to lose healing skills to make room for dps or support buttons. The post you quoted even says so.

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It is actually a problem with both content design and tank design. As the expansions have gone on there has been more of a focus on DPS > X vs survive mechanics and kill boss at the same time. When the content pushed for this mentality this is where you see people like the other guy refer to tanks as blue dps and healers as green dps, because really the content has just become a dps race.


However, when you design tanks to both mitigate damage with high uptime, and self heal with high uptime it causes another issue where healers who's kit focus mostly on healing damage, becomes less valuable. Due to the shift in tank design, they no longer really have to worry about any sort of threat management, nor does any other class in the game. With the self healing and mitigation tools they have they don't really have to worry about surviving at all. It's not even very often tanks have to stun or silence certain mechanics any more. If you reduced tank mitigation skills by half, and removed the healing that tanks had, I bet healers would not complain as much, as they would have something to do.

So in a nut shell poor content design mixed with poor job design is what is causes these sort of problems. Personally DPS race content is just boring and that is sadly the direction this game has been going cause its got to appease the casuals.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Tanks primary function is holding threat (which is gone now), tank damage, and positioning the boss. There damage should almost always be negligible in a well designed trinity style game like this.

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~64% of a DPS's throughput is... "negligible"?

in the current unreal ultima trial the DTPS on tank with agro is pretty high, the two tanks have to use their short CDs on each other on CD or things will get nasty

first time im doing unreal for tells/retells, i was pretty surprised by the amount of DMG going out (feels akin to ultimate lvls, def more than most of savage)

granted a big perk of the fight is the ilvl lock, so u cant ever just disrespect the fight with gear

if that amount of DTPS is going to be a trend in the new ultimate and later tiers, tanks will need to have such tools to be able to survive

Damage disparity between healers and tanks is a good point.
Healers can out-heal a tank and has comparable dps.

Maybe healers heal too much…:confused:

Or maybe healers should lose their dots to make up for their massive healing capabilities.. ;)

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Originally Posted by Chopstix

in the current unreal ultima trial the DTPS on tank with agro is pretty high, the two tanks have to use their short CDs on each other on CD or things will get nasty

first time im doing unreal for tells/retells, i was pretty surprised by the amount of DMG going out (feels akin to ultimate lvls, def more than most of savage)

granted a big perk of the fight is the ilvl lock, so u cant ever just disrespect the fight with gear

if that amount of DTPS is going to be a trend in the new ultimate and later tiers, tanks will need to have such tools to be able to survive

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Yeah, but should all the classes be designed around the ultimate fights? There are 2 per expansion if we are lucky. And it doesn't have exactly the highest participation rate either.

There was another game that went this route... I can't quite remember it's name.