How would an optional, official parser be toxic?

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

Would a compromise of sorts work?

Personal parser only, gives you all the info you need for how you are doing, compares it to the average parse for your iLev, you could see parsing leader boards for a specific instance but you could not see party parsing.

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The people against parsing would simply say "Screenshots on Discord or kicked." from party leaders, and thus it stops being a personal parser only.

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Originally Posted by starlesss

the introduction of parser will not improve the communities skill level.

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Originally Posted by TaiyoShikasu

They're not wrong.

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Putting both so context isn't lost.

So yes, there will be players that won't improve even if one was put in. That's going to exist.

In those cases, where the player feels it's justified to do 5th percentile in a farm party, we can remove them. Honestly, with what I've seen, some people get into content and aren't even playing the game. Why can do them a favor by replacing them. Instead of not playing the game in Suzaku ex, they can not play the game in Idylshire.

People aren't expecting some 90th percentile god in there. But they're probably expecting a dps to do more dps than the tank was doing in ARR. If they don't want to learn, they can stay out of parties that want things done. They can hang out with Mr. Butcher Block Only No Combo over in Snowclolak.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

The people against parsing would simply say "Screenshots on Discord or kicked." from party leaders, and thus it stops being a personal parser only.

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That doesn't make it not a personal parser though. People are entitled to ask for whatever they want to join their group apart from real money. I keep seeing a static recruitment message in PF for a static of only male miqote... is that toxic?

(I understand this isn't actually a point you're making but I hate it so much I have to refute it anyway)

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

The people against parsing would simply say "Screenshots on Discord or kicked." from party leaders, and thus it stops being a personal parser only.

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Could simply just not give those people the time of day. Personal is just that. Personal. Anybody that tries that, a simple report to a GM can easily fix this problem.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

That doesn't make it not a personal parser though. People are entitled to ask for whatever they want to join their group apart from real money. I keep seeing a static recruitment message in PF for a static of only male miqote... is that toxic?

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Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-parser. Given how prevelent FFLogs has become, we may just need to add an official party parser. And while technically in terms of what it is, is still a personal parser, when it comes down to use case and how it gets used, it stops being a personal parser then. That's what I was getting at.

Heck, I even went as far as to say in another thread if you perform below a certain percentile in endgame content (I think it was 80%), you should get automatically kicked from the duty. Though in hindsight, maybe that should be set to a specific amount of damage based on ilvl. Force them to improve to progress. Now, while that idea went down like a lead balloon, I'd actually like to see content gradually become more difficult over time. To push the playerbase forward/

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

Could simply just not give those people the time of day. Personal is just that. Personal. Anybody that tries that, a simple report to a GM can easily fix this problem.

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Herein lies the clutch, they'd say "Screenshots on Discord or kick", but screenshots of what? They don't explicitely say it's of their DPS, thus the GMs wouldn't act on it.

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Originally Posted by MageBlack

Would a compromise of sorts work?

Personal parser only, gives you all the info you need for how you are doing, compares it to the average parse for your iLev, you could see parsing leader boards for a specific instance but you could not see party parsing.

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Would be a short help for PS4 players, better than nothing, but most of actual users of parsers will continue to use their own...

A samurai wont have the same results with a RDM in the party, and without any RDM... IF he gets the dragoon buff (eye thing) or not.

The fact is, anti-parsers people complains about "toxicity" but the only toxicity was shown there is "abusiv kick", even if i admit there will maybe get some, most of those kind of kick are already existing with "checking FFlogs" PF. And "toxic" there is "they dont accept us because we are not good enough" ... but the toxic is maybe not the 7 people kicking the one wanting to be carry, but THIS one guy that consider the 7 have to take him no matter his DPS...

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Herein lies the clutch, they'd say "Screenshots on Discord or kick", but screenshots of what? They don't explicitely say it's of their DPS, thus the GMs wouldn't act on it.

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I would take the kick, honestly. There are plenty of other fish in the sea right now. Somebody asking for screens is missing the entire point of a personal parser.

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Originally Posted by KaivaC

I would take the kick, honestly. There are plenty of other fish in the sea right now. Somebody asking for screens is missing the entire point of a personal parser.

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Honestly, I wouldn't join any party that says that in the first place. I'm very strict about what groups I join, don't want to be in one that unleashes the wrath of Bahamut on a party because of one mistake, etc. Tend to make my own parties as a result.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

I would take that with a grain of salt considering there are add-ons that are designed to help you with your rotation. One called something like Spell Flash lit up the abilities you should be pressing. And no it isn't like FFXIV's combo system. It lit up absolutely everything in the rotation including major cds. Of course it is no replacement for personal class knowledge but the point is those add-ons are a crutch that can make players appear far more skilled than they actually are.

There are also add-ons that have trivialised some boss mechanics. For example Shadow Lord Iskar has a mechanic in which you had to pass around an object called "The Eye of Anzu" which required a great deal of coordination and situational awareness...unless you had the Shadow Lord Iskar Assist add-on which made the fight tremendously easier to do. Again, an add-on making players appear better than they actually are.

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Let me pivot to a real world example. Image if you were a people manager. You have an employee who does X amount of work in 8 hours. You have another employee who does the same X amount of work in 8 hours, but he requires a special chair to be comfortable.

Is he less efficient of a worker? In terms of productivity, no, but he did come with a slightly higher cost (requires special chair due to disability, etc.), but per volume he still produces the same amount of output.

That's what these tools are. They may handhold and help, but they still improve the playerbase. You cannot refute that, it's a flat out undeniable fact.

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

Let me pivot to a real world example. Image if you were a people manager. You have an employee who does X amount of work in 8 hours. You have another employee who does the same X amount of work in 8 hours, but he requires a special chair to be comfortable.

Is he less efficient of a worker? In terms of productivity, no, but he did come with a slightly higher cost (requires special chair due to disability, etc.), but per volume he still produces the same amount of output.

That's what these tools are. They may handhold and help, but they still improve the playerbase. You cannot refute that, it's a flat out undeniable fact.

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Wow. You try to argue that parsers can noticeably improve the playerbase because supposedly Blizzard said they did. I tell you that there are add-ons that can greatly assist in doing a rotation so such a statement should not be taken for gospel...and now you give me an example that basically says "doesn't matter if someone gets handholded with add-ons, better dps is still better dps".

So am I to take this as you are also advocating for an official handholding rotation helper too?