SP nerfed. We were lied to.

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Originally Posted by Kensei

WTF are you talking about? I have explained it a hundred times. I posted a few pages back that I would no longer reply to people who claim that SP/hour is the same now as it was before patch because it simply is not true. It is you along with your supporters who simply refuse to understand. You keep denying the facts, you keep ignoring everyone else who post in the same situation, you act like I am the only person in the world who has a problem with this. You are so worried with proving me wrong that you don't read.

The people you are agreeing with themselves have acknowledged that SP was reduced but they say it was for balancing. Which means they have yet to get the point.

I have explained as if you guys were 5 years old why we were lied to and yet you are the ones who simply do not understand. I want to keep living in my little world? What world? You think I want to waste my Saturday explaining to people something simpler than 2+2=4? I have explained it in the simplest of terms humanly possible and you simply cannot see past "I gotta prove him wrong to seem smart" Get over yourselves.

If according to you guys SP/hour gains are exactly the same or better than before then that's great for you! WTF are you still posting here? If I'm crazy and dumb and don't know how to play why the hell do you keep coming back to my thread? If the game is so perfect go play!

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Pot, meet kettle.

You've made assertions. You haven't backed up any of them with actual data or numbers. You haven't even attempted to. Your arguments basically amount to, "this is how it is, because I say it is".

By comparison, from the other side has been post, after post, after post, after post, after post from people (with far more time and hands-on experience in the game than you in some cases, incidentally) providing actual numbers of what they gain in terms of xp per hour.

Those people have asked you if your rate in Behests have matched theirs. From what I've seen, you've failed to meet a single one of them. Instead, you ignore direct challenges and keep cherry-picking statements that are "easy targets".

From where I'm sitting, reading all the back and forth, I'm seeing a lot of actual data being provided by those on one side, and a whole lot of unsupported assertions being made on yours.

Seems to me like you've got no argument, you're out-classed by people with more hands-on experience with the game and better data to back it up... and you know it. But, for whatever reason, you won't accept it, and continue to cling to your talking points... all so you can accuse Yoshi of lying to you.

Tsk. Tsk.

If you're going to make an assertion, especially with as much vehemence as you are, you should be prepared to back it up. Others have backed up their claims. You have failed, repeatedly, to back up yours. And, no, repeating the same thing over and over is not "backing it up".

This isn't about me choosing sides. I tend to lean toward what ever side has the more solid case and provides the best supporting data. In this case, it ain't you. If you had come in here showing data that backed up your claims... it'd be a whole different story.

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Originally Posted by alexi14

52 pages! This proves how big SE failed on their SP system changes. I wish just once they could give us good without stacking a bunch of bad on top of it.

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52 to pages of behest bitching?!?!!? =/= sp system changes sure some of you are arguing about the sp changes but OP is bitching about Behest ONRY!!!! and we are informing him there is more to the game than behest so the pages keep stacking because its 52 pages of "BUT BEHEST ISH TEH AWESUM!"

I've been have fun with the new adjustment soloing is no problem, finding a party to exp with is the real problem

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Looks like you need to be made aware of the undeniable fact that you're saying "I'm right because I say so!"

Unfortunately for your plainly false points, continuously repeating to yourself that you're right won't magically make it true.

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Nope. If you go and play the game SP gain has been reduced from pre-patch. I'm not right because I say so, I'm right because that's exactly what happened. You add nothing to the topic and have been trying to prove me wrong which you can't because I deal with facts.. If you like the game how it is go play it and leave those with issues to discuss them.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

The difference is that he goes around blabbering that it's IMPOSSIBLE to exp faster in other means that in behest. I and many others say that it's possible, because we've done it so many times that it isn't even funny.

We say we're right because we've experienced it. He has no experience to back up his claims, and still denies evidence.

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You either read what I wrote wrong are just lying to try and save face. My point from the OP has always been that Yoshi said ranking up wouldn't be nerfed. Ranking up is slower due to less SP gains now than it was pre-patch. Slower SP gains = slower ranking up = nerfed ranking up. This has to be like 30th time I have mentioned this.

Instead of the Pavlovian pleasure-trigger of just hitting another rank, I find the fighting is more tactical now, and quite more rewarding... If it moves slowly, so does chess. And--to me, mind you--it's more satisfying to play now. Definitely more so than the addict-prone series of activities that represented "ranking up" before. Let me hope it moves even more in that direction. Other than that, I'm sure the current status of the SP ratio and other such things are far from being final. It's been plainly stated through interviews and letters: The battle system is not done yet.

Having said this, allow me to vent a bit, out of exasperation:

There are some people that play this game as though it were a race (to nowhere, BTW,) and I fail to understand what the purpose of their rush is. What exactly will you accomplish when you cap all your jobs, while the game really is not near having any sort of endgame yet? You're just reflexively carrying the compulsion from your behavior in other games to this one. Adrenaline addiction is fine, but man! You do get adrenaline running easily!

FFXIV is currently an open Beta Test, not a commercial product ready to be enjoyed in most of its aspects. SE has plainly acknowledged this. Furthermore, we're all beta-testers, and we really should only be hanging around because (some of us for bizarre reasons) we like being a part of this process. It definitely shouldn't be because the game is in any sort of way finished, or because we expect it to be so now.

Help out with your constructive criticism, and once and for all cut it out with the entitlement attitude. If this game had failed--and it could very well have done so, if it weren't because of us, the optimists--you, the destructive complainers who would've caused it to fail, would've all lost the few dollars you paid for the license to play it. End of story.

If you don't like what's going on, please assume it did fail, and leave. Let us, the constructive bunch, do what we're really enjoying here, which is helping the game get somewhere. If by relaunch time the game fails, you can laugh at what you will call our folly. Even despite our assertion that we are having fun right now. If it doesn't fail, rest assured we will be too busy having even more fun then, for even thinking of laughing at you.

This is not a rant against people that criticize the game. However, people that criticize can do so destructively, while some others take good care to do it constructively. If you don't know in which group you are, you are most likely in the first one. And yes, this rant is addressed at you. (For starters, stop using the word "suck," and learn a few more verbs and a few adjectives as well. It's your mother tongue, for crying out loud--and not mine by the way-- but you wouldn't know it from the care you fail to bestow it.)

You, the smug, destructive non-achievers that constitute the chorus of game-addicts that most complain, and are perpetually indignant because you don't have your fix NOW: You behave as if you never committed a mistake in your lives. The arrogance of your criticism reaches pathetic dimensions in front of the sad reality that, if you were in charge of developing this, I say it without pause, the game would have failed already. Most worthwhile projects became worthwhile only because the people behind them found an enlightened way of detonating the learning potential within mistakes, but more importantly, because they had the daring to take action and make those mistakes. Also, because they had the patience and perseverance to fix them.

If such mistakes are committed moving forward in the development of this game, they are only condemnable if they lead to no improvement. The only way to move FFXIV at this juncture is by the good old scientific method, the trusty system of trial and ERROR.

I'm sticking with the game, because I think, and I could be deluded (but so could you,) that SE has better intentions and, so far, better procedures in dire straits than many companies would have had in similar circumstances. Something in their attitude has earned them my respect (and it certainly wasn't their savoir-faire with PC game development.) If you don't see this, maybe you shouldn't be here, more for your own good than for anything else.

The game is not ready, and it's not going to be for a while. So, stay, vigilant and critical, yes! But help pick up the pieces, or just get the fuck out of the way.

Rutelor.

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Originally Posted by Kensei

You either read what I wrote wrong are just lying to try and save face. My point from the OP has always been that Yoshi said ranking up wouldn't be nerfed. Ranking up is slower due to less SP gains now than it was pre-patch. Slower SP gains = slower ranking up = nerfed ranking up. This has to be like 30th time I have mentioned this.

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You are one dense . . . individual. We have provided proof to refute your claims, but you ignore it because only you feel your point is valid. You are a fool.

just spent 3hrs.. got about 70K SP.. went from 15-21 in a single session.. Leve Link > Behest > SP Grind with a group of 5-8.. TONS of fun.. no problems with SP gain what so ever.

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Originally Posted by Bled

That's not exactly what the OP's main point was... please re-read the OP.

OP stated that overall SP gains are slower partly due to the nerf to behest "the best form of leveling" in the OP's eyes. The OP was attempting to argue not exclusively on the side of behest but more on the general amount of SP/hour is nerfed which is opposite of what Yoshi letter promised.

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The last sentence of your statement is correct. However, I did also say what Luxlex is saying. There are many ways to get SP no doubt about that, I have already acknowledged, it but none can reach the amount of SP/hour that Behest provided pre-patch. That is all this thread is trying to get across.

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Originally Posted by Forbin

just spent 3hrs.. got about 70K SP.. went from 15-21 in a single session.. Leve Link > Behest > SP Grind with a group of 5-8.. TONS of fun.. no problems with SP gain what so ever.

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This. I have been enjoying faster sp than previously at higher levels. yay update!