The Monk Temple

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

SNIP

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Insisting that the simplest rotation is the best rotation is just limiting yourself for no good reason.
Difficulty of execution is a thing, but it is entirely subjective - there are fights where you may want to keep it simple and concentrate on raid mechanics but there are also fights where there are DPS checks and every bit counts.

The way you talk about invul frames sounds like all you've done is the primals, and even then invulren periods are predictable - this is not an issue in most fights.

hey guys i wanna ask you something about the Fist of destroyer- twin snake - rockbreaker combo. AT gl 3 you can spamm that combo very fast but it wil ldrain your tp in like seconds. Things that i noticed about FoD is that the silence makes the monsters stand still for 1 second and dont attack, giving the tank a short break from 1 attack so basically every turn you use it the monster lose 1 attack wich makes healing more easier?

Kukurumei: When the team was developing FFXIV a lot of its aspects pulled things from WoW. I mained a feral druid in WoW in a raiding guild, and believe me when I say that a pugilist plays very similarly to a feral druid. You have to keep demolish/fracture/touch of death up while maintaining twin snakes and greased lightning buffs, all at the same time making sure you're positioned correctly and doing your normal attacks all in between (opo, raptor, coerul form stuff).

Snap punch: potency 140, 180 from the flank.
Demolish: Damage over time of 18s with a potency of 40. It ticks once every 3 seconds, so 6x40=240.

If demolish ticks for =12 seconds, its the average of a snap punch.
If you know something will take more than 12 seconds worth of the DoT then it's worth it to prioritize demolish, If it's going to die in less than 12 seconds, then you can place snap punch above demolish.

This is why you go demolish >snap punch > demolish >snap punch....
If you only use demolish you'll keep clipping the time. if you use it every other time you can set it up just as the other falls off. if it fell off completely and hasnt been reapplied for a while, then its as if you did 240 damage instead of 180 when you chose your attack 18s in the past.

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Originally Posted by aycheff

So I hit the 483 skill speed cap on my monk

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Explain? I've seen over 500 - is there a limit to the GCD reduction?

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

The whole reason why snap is good is because you don't think and let muscle training take over, while your full concentration is learning and beating the battle...

No one is stopping you from demolish, the point is to not make it a priority. Like some crazy rotations that get passed around. Learn before use.

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In my last post, I was actually thinking of muscle memory but reaching the opposite conclusion. I believe muscle memory can lead you to learn a complicated rotation once you keep testing it in different environments.
Eventually, all you need if to feed yourself the situational information and then you will already know what to do.

I'm not saying to over reach, if you're not comfortable. It's okay to play it safe, especially if it ends up a dps loss because you let your buffs/debuffs fall off.
You shouldn't preach the opposite though. Everyone should, at least, keep the goal of performing optimally in hectic situations in mind.

It takes a lot of practice and might get worse before it gets better. So yea, we get a bad rep for this. But that comes with playing a difficult class.
Strive to get better but don't overextend, it doesn't have to be one or the other.
What you're arguing is personal and relative to what one can handle.

You say "learn before use", that's good but you've also dismissed trying to do more complicated stuff altogether. You don't need to be so extreme to get the point across.
And relying on muscle memory of the 3 button rotation alone isn't good advice, because people don't develop if they stick too close to their comfort zone.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

In my last post, I was actually thinking of muscle memory but reaching the opposite conclusion. I believe muscle memory can lead you to learn a complicated rotation once you keep testing it in different environments.
Eventually, all you need if to feed yourself the situational information and then you will already know what to do.

I'm not saying to over reach, if you're not comfortable. It's okay to play it safe, especially if it ends up a dps loss because you let your buffs/debuffs fall off.
You shouldn't preach the opposite though. Everyone should, at least, keep the goal of performing optimally in hectic situations in mind.

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Battle experience > skill >>>>>>>>>> rotation

90% of winning the fight is simply knowing the battle and paying attention. Training complicated procedures, matters a whole lot less then simply making sure a: you don't die b: you're not standing around doing nothing like an idiot.

ARR is in general is a new age "casual" type game. Meaning it's full of tricks and pitfalls instead of numbers, and math.

Getting a stupid couple of extra damage in, is much less efficient then simply saying "omg, red circle~"

While it's not wrong to "grow into the coat" like you suggest...the party really doesn't like that and it's better to "change your coat as you grow", is my endorsement.

Mnks have such a large pitfall it's really a can become a problem depending on the way you approach a battle.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Battle experience > skill >>>>>>>>>> rotation

Mnks have such a large pitfall it's really a can become a problem depending on the way you approach a battle.

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Your arguments are bad because you are assuming someone can't both focus on the battle and optimizing the rotation at the same time and that simply isn't true. Once you have a lot of experience with it you really don't even need to look at debuffs/dot timers much so you can really focus on fight mechanics and only a minor amount of attention going to your rotation.

As Subu and Ally said, rotations should come like breathing, experienced monks should be doing them without thinking about doing them, and fully focusing on the boss mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Vektrat

As Subu and Ally said, rotations should come like breathing, experienced monks should be doing them without thinking about doing them, and fully focusing on the boss mechanics.

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False mnks should never learn their rotations by heart. It's like the worse thing. Mnks are very manual. They should adapt and change at will.

Just like you can't Dot ifrit without knowing his time window, you can't have an internal clock on debuffs. Things will push/pull and kill you. There will be resets, lag time, and target switches, and animation frames. If they ever improve the debuff UI, it will get easier to ingest information quickly, but otherwise all you're doing is armchairing, and Mnks suffer the most when they try to over reach, because it penalizes them a lot.

I bet you're one of those people that get hit and then whine "I was clearly outside the circle!" when most of us by know it's better to play it waaaay safe outside it.

Crap happens, and it happens less when you don't tempt fate. Mnks needs to learn that pretty hard, or they need to play a more consistent job.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Battle experience > skill >>>>>>>>>> rotation

90% of winning the fight is simply knowing the battle and paying attention. Training complicated procedures, matters a whole lot less then simply making sure a: you don't die b: you're not standing around doing nothing like an idiot.

While it's not wrong to "grow into the coat" like you suggest...the party really doesn't like that and it's better to "change your coat as you grow", is my endorsement.

Mnks have such a large pitfall it's really a can become a problem depending on the way you approach a battle.

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Actually, its usually better for most people to try the complicated version out early, as it makes it easier for them to learn it, as opposed to trying to un-learn the easy way(which is much harder to do), if you clearly arent good at it and you're doing something tough, then yes, maybe you should take it easy.

However, i do everything I have to to perform optimally in all fights, i have the target bar in the center of the screen so i can watch my timers without looking away from the fights, i NEVER skip my dots in a battle unless its flimsy trash mobs or the boss will go invul within 10 seconds(and honestly, fracture is probably worth it anyway), i feel bored and useless if im just sitting there doing the boring 1-2-3 rotation, i dont know how you can even stand it.