AOE Toggle Needs to GO

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

Really SE.... would it have been so hard to do this?.......

AOE off:
Cure_____20 mp 10 power
Cure II___40 mp 20 power
Cure III__60 mp 30 power
Cure IV__80mp 40 power
AOE on:
Cure_____40 mp 6 power
Cure II___80 mp 14 power
Cure III__120 mp 22 power
Cure IV__160mp 32 power


really? would this have been hard? Did the toggle really have to be removed?

Now instead of 4 spells in my bar, I have to deal with 8 or more? sorry but that is complete BS........

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Really? who the hell sets all 4 of those cures and the AoE versions in the first place? If you still use cure one and curega 1 still after you have access to the tier 4 versions...then your not very smart.

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

If it was a rough example, why do you add "Is it that hard SE?" when you obviously know yourself your example was nowhere near something SE could use. If you think it's so easy and it could be done in a matter of days writing some code, why do you not try to make a REAL accurate example and THEN say "Is it that hard SE" again?

Cause as soon as you would actually use your brain and think about balance and how it may effect other things, you would overheat your brain thinking about solutions for all the other stuff it will effect that need to be resolved so don't pull some smart ass BS like "Is it that hard" when you actually know yourself it IS hard, cause otherwise you would have come up with a better example.

And I don't need any argument for the toggle to go, the best has been stated and is pretty much the only reason why the people who want it to go, want it to go. Cause it will add more strategic thinking to the mage classes. And this is pretty much an undeniable fact. While the people who want the toggle to stay all come up with stupid arguments like "I don't want to deal with double the amount of spells" while fact is, they would never use all of them anyway, cause only the higher versions are gonna be of use for them, or do you run around with Cure/Sacrifice I still, even on R50? If you do, you got my pity...and if you're actually able to still put Cure/Sacrifice I on your action bars this even adds to the argument that toggle needs to go, cause you shouldn't be able to put up ALL of your spells w/o even thinking of what might be useful or not. It's all about decisions! Those decisions will make the classes unique and the players who play them as well, cause you will actually see differences between the players instead of just anyone spamming AoE.

I'm just sick of people thinking their solutions would fix everything in a matter of days, when they don't even really think about what they are talking and on top of that, come up with some silly arguments that are not even valid.

People screamed for "class uniqueness"...well it's as simple as that, if both, CON and THM are able to use any of their spells cross class AND use them as AoE and Single whenever they want, there goes your class uniqueness. Removing the toggle and limiting your amount of spells due to that plus making some spells class specific is exactly what people wanted, Class Uniqueness and there is almost no better way to implement it then that. AoE toggle just ruins it.

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how about instead of insulting me you come up with valid arguments, because none of what I have read so far are valid.

I know that as of right now, it is not strategic.

Take the idea of having separate AOE spells, and apply that same idea to the toogle.

When the toggle is on, have the spells cost more mana, cure power would be abit weaker, and hate would be more, along with a longer casting time. and the problem would be solved.

this would give the same solution to having separate spells and would not clutter up a casters spell list.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

:( ok ctrl + spell!

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I get what you're saying though, an alternate way to toggle AoE is not a bad idea. A key combination may not be the best method, however, since the controller doesn't have any unused buttons to match that type of function.

I'd also find a toggle to set before selecting the spell to cast possibly cumbersome as well. Going for a cure, but forgot to set AoE, you'd have to back out to the toggle, then reselect the spell, subtarget, etc. I honestly think keeping it at the subtarget confirmation step is the easiest way to handle an AoE toggle.

Now, if they want to allow us to set two different AoE, support and offensive, or set the initial AoE state in the ability bar menu, that'd be great.

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Originally Posted by Ilean

Well not all of us are perfect in mind and body, so a toggle that remembers it's last state is bad news once things heat up.

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Look, I'm not perfect either. I mis-fire an AoE just as much as the next player, but I just deal with the consequences. I definitely don't blame the system though, since 99% of the time, I cast what I intended to.

I think you'll find the same thing will happen with a toggle that doesn't save the last state. It might reduce collateral damage, but a ill-timed single target cure when AoE is needed can be just as, if not more, detrimental. KO party members are more of a liability than an extra mob to tank/sleep.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

how about instead of insulting me you come up with valid arguments, because none of what I have read so far are valid.

I know that as of right now, it is not strategic.

Take the idea of having separate AOE spells, and apply that same idea to the toogle.

When the toggle is on, have the spells cost more mana, cure power would be abit weaker, and hate would be more, along with a longer casting time. and the problem would be solved.

this would give the same solution to having separate spells and would not clutter up a casters spell list.

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You just don't want to understand what people are talking about do you? If the AoE toggle is being kept, there goes the whole "decision" thing I was talking about(cause you can still put up ALLLLLLLLLLL of your spells that are useful without even having to think if there is a need for them or not). While seperating spells between Single and AoE spells(some spells shouldn't even have a AoE version to begin with) will limit the amount of spells you can/will use due to you're AP limiting your choices. So you actually have to THINK what you're putting up on your bars, instead of just putting up everything...

And in fact, my arguments are valid, cause right now there is no class uniqueness and with the AoE toggle staying in the game, there won't be. I'm not insulting you btw, I'm telling you that your arguments are not valid, cause all your arguments are based solely on one thing. You don't want to have more spells on your bar than needed...which is a selfish thing, no argument...having a Single and AoE Version of the spell makes no difference to keeping the AoE toggle, but the actual consequence of you not being able to put up all your spells you wish to have on your bar is actually forcing you to think and make decisions...and you clearly don't want to think and make decisions, you'd rather just have it all...and that's an opinion I cannot agree with.

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

You just don't want to understand what people are talking about do you? If the AoE toggle is being kept, there goes the whole "decision" thing I was talking about(cause you can still put up ALLLLLLLLLLL of your spells that are useful without even having to think if there is a need for them or not). While seperating spells between Single and AoE spells(some spells shouldn't even have a AoE version to begin with) will limit the amount of spells you can/will use due to you're AP limiting your choices. So you actually have to THINK what you're putting up on your bars, instead of just putting up everything...

And in fact, my arguments are valid, cause right now there is no class uniqueness and with the AoE toggle staying in the game, there won't be. I'm not insulting you btw, I'm telling you that your arguments are not valid, cause all your arguments are based solely on one thing. You don't want to have more spells on your bar than needed...which is a selfish thing, no argument...having a Single and AoE Version of the spell makes no difference to keeping the AoE toggle, but the actual consequence of you not being able to put up all your spells you wish to have on your bar is actually forcing you to think and make decisions...and you clearly don't want to think and make decisions, you'd rather just have it all...and that's an opinion I cannot agree with.

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Too bad I'm going to just pick all the useful AoE spells now!

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Originally Posted by TirionCrey

You just don't want to understand what people are talking about do you? If the AoE toggle is being kept, there goes the whole "decision" thing I was talking about(cause you can still put up ALLLLLLLLLLL of your spells that are useful without even having to think if there is a need for them or not). While seperating spells between Single and AoE spells(some spells shouldn't even have a AoE version to begin with) will limit the amount of spells you can/will use due to you're AP limiting your choices. So you actually have to THINK what you're putting up on your bars, instead of just putting up everything...

And in fact, my arguments are valid, cause right now there is no class uniqueness and with the AoE toggle staying in the game, there won't be. I'm not insulting you btw, I'm telling you that your arguments are not valid, cause all your arguments are based solely on one thing. You don't want to have more spells on your bar than needed...which is a selfish thing, no argument...having a Single and AoE Version of the spell makes no difference to keeping the AoE toggle, but the actual consequence of you not being able to put up all your spells you wish to have on your bar is actually forcing you to think and make decisions...and you clearly don't want to think and make decisions, you'd rather just have it all...and that's an opinion I cannot agree with.

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As of right now, you cant equip "all the spells you want" I dont know about you, but I still have to think of what spells I want to equip on my CON/THM as I mix and match their spells some depending on what I am doing.

The main strategy of "what spell to use and AOE or no" would still be there, and without the backwards notion of separate AOE spells.

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Originally Posted by ApplePie

Too bad I'm going to just pick all the useful AoE spells now!

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this.


/p What you don't want adds?... too bad.

Why not have 2 toggles?

One for Offensive and One for Defensive?
Toggle can remember what last setting it was on, but you wouldnt have to toggle it on and off as much.

I've found that the only players that complain about the AoE toggle have either been KO'ed because they rather risk pulling in a stray add than USE THE TOGGLE, or someone in their group died when they threw out a heal at some random party member than actually toggling AoE on (or actually targeting the one that really needed the heal).

Complainers complain because they fail.

I guess I'm the only one that writes macros then...cause it kinda makes all of these arguments moot.

1.) Write a macro to set your job skills. No longer care how many skills are in my book since I never open it.
2.) Write a buff macro and cure macro with AOE turned on.
3.) Write a debuff/nuke/whatever else macro with AOE turned off.
4.) ???
5.) Profit.

Seriously guys, the hours you've wasted arguing in this thread coulda been used utilizing the tools we already have and everyone would be happy.