"Fix" Speed Runs? How about fixing the real issue?

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Originally Posted by Stryker

NOOOOOOO let me get all my DL and relic stuff first. Now I have to grind hardcore to catch up to everyone else.

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Actually, maybe I'm just being optimistic, but I read it as they're going to give us a reason to kill them. Hopefully that means Moneyz and Lootz! XD

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Originally Posted by Stryker

NOOOOOOO let me get all my DL and relic stuff first. Now I have to grind hardcore to catch up to everyone else.

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Hahahhaa! I'm going to spam CM so bad every day until they do this >.>

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Originally Posted by Riko_113

Actually, maybe I'm just being optimistic, but I read it as they're going to give us a reason to kill them. Hopefully that means Moneyz and Lootz! XD

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judging from the post, yes it is something positive!
but who knows?

Wonder if we'll see a challenge mode type of implementation from WoW where you have to kill x trash mobs to finish it.

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Originally Posted by Laiyenu

Yup. wouldn't be though if more Allg peices dropped, so far we've see the Healer headpiece 3 times and nothing else sides tank and LNC stuff.

To your point, I cant convert AK gear, its just a poor stepping stone into DL (which you dont even need due to people just running CM day and night)

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I always wondered about this, none of my green gear, even from 1.0 can be converted..

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

We're planning to release a hotfix next week that we'll use to address and adjust a few elements.

One of the adjustments regards the regular monsters in level 50 dungeons and how there is currently no reason to defeat them.

We'll be announcing additional details about the hotfix details soon!

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How about increasing the amount of Tomes for completing these dungeons aswell,
that way it wont feel like such a major grind.

A nice fat gil reward would be nice too, or better random loot.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

We're planning to release a hotfix next week that we'll use to address and adjust a few elements.

One of the adjustments regards the regular monsters in level 50 dungeons and how there is currently no reason to defeat them.

We'll be announcing additional details about the hotfix details soon!

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The hotfix isn't going to be anything great. Unless they add a chance for some mobs to drop 1 phil/myth tome then ppl will still cry.

Edit Maybe SE will troll us and give us a reason to defeat them...... One we don't want.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

We're planning to release a hotfix next week that we'll use to address and adjust a few elements.

One of the adjustments regards the regular monsters in level 50 dungeons and how there is currently no reason to defeat them.

We'll be announcing additional details about the hotfix details soon!

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Here is my idea for this fix. Give 1 Philosophy Tome per enemy defeated in a dungeon. That way people actually have a reason to defeat them! You can readjust the amount of tomes given out per boss (they drop loot anyway) so that it isn't broken in terms of rushing through equipment. Sound good?

Now I know I am probably being way to positive since this is SE we are talking about......but maybe if you kill all the trash mobs you will get more tomes? I know its probably a one-handed, blind man's shot in the dark but I can be irrationally optimistic, can't I?

inb4 "reason to kill them" means "you have to kill every mob in an area to unlock a portal to the next"

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

We're planning to release a hotfix next week that we'll use to address and adjust a few elements.

One of the adjustments regards the regular monsters in level 50 dungeons and how there is currently no reason to defeat them.

We'll be announcing additional details about the hotfix details soon!

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Only way to fix it, is to
A) Make it so you need to kill everything (please don't, that is just stupid)
B) Make it so they drop a SUBSTANTIAL amount of Gil. Maybe some Allagan pieces or the occasional 1-3 Tomes.
I don't mean so much gil we become rich, but enough to pay for repair costs. Your 1 Gil from mobs in Ak is a joke.

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Originally Posted by BodomsChild

Here is my idea for this fix. Give 1 Philosophy Tome per enemy defeated in a dungeon. That way people actually have a reason to defeat them! You can readjust the amount of tomes given out per boss (they drop loot anyway) so that it isn't broken in terms of rushing through equipment. Sound good?

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that's a really good idea. :D

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Originally Posted by Fusionx

inb4 "reason to kill them" means "you have to kill every mob in an area to unlock a portal to the next"

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PLEASE don't give them any ideas! I'm already on the verge of just quitting due to being burnt out on CM and AK and that I think doing my laundry is more fun those those on the 20th run

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Originally Posted by EgweneALvere

Now I know I am probably being way to positive since this is SE we are talking about......but maybe if you kill all the trash mobs you will get more tomes? I know its probably a one-handed, blind man's shot in the dark but I can be irrationally optimistic, can't I?

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They could do it similar to a HQ item for a crafting leve. Kill ALL the mobs and you get a percentage bonus of tomes at the end, that'd be a pretty good adjustment if you ask me, I hate being forced to skip packs, especially when it feels like each group has different expectations of the tank.

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Originally Posted by Fusionx

inb4 "reason to kill them" means "you have to kill every mob in an area to unlock a portal to the next"

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Wouldnt surpise me. The fix will be that we have to kill all mobs to proceed to bosses but no added rewards for doing so. Nope wouldnt surprise me in the least.

The problem isn't that it doesn't drop any gil. They all drop 1 gil. ONE. GIL. It's a fucking insult!

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

We're planning to release a hotfix next week that we'll use to address and adjust a few elements.

One of the adjustments regards the regular monsters in level 50 dungeons and how there is currently no reason to defeat them.

We'll be announcing additional details about the hotfix details soon!

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I see no good coming from this.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

We're planning to release a hotfix next week that we'll use to address and adjust a few elements.

One of the adjustments regards the regular monsters in level 50 dungeons and how there is currently no reason to defeat them.

We'll be announcing additional details about the hotfix details soon!

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Why only the Level 50 Dungeons? Theres more than just the level 50 Dungeons.

CM nerf incoming, guess I have to farm it even more than usual.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Why only the Level 50 Dungeons? Theres more than just the level 50 Dungeons.

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Because killing enemies in pre-50 dungeons nets you experience unlike level 50 dungeons where killing the extra enemies nets you nothing but a bigger repair bill.

ONE. SINGLE. GIL.

I thought this game is casual why do people want to fix speed runs? do you all really want to waste 30-45m+ a run to get your points? I play 8-10hours a day so at the end it does not bug me w/e they do but i thought more then half of players are casual lol.

Really they could solve the issue with trash mobs in 50 dungeons very easily. Give them a good (> 50%) chance to drop a tomestone of philosophy or mythology. Then we'd all be yelling "put more trash mobs in dungeons!" ^_^

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Originally Posted by Ladon

Because killing enemies in pre-50 dungeons nets you experience unlike level 50 dungeons where killing the extra enemies nets you nothing but a bigger repair bill.

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What if you are running a low level dungeon at max level with your friend? No xp there.

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

What if you are running a low level dungeon at max level with your friend? No xp there.

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Once you get your friend through it you don't have to do it again. You don't have to FARM it.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

We're planning to release a hotfix next week that we'll use to address and adjust a few elements.

One of the adjustments regards the regular monsters in level 50 dungeons and how there is currently no reason to defeat them.

We'll be announcing additional details about the hotfix details soon!

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/em points at signature

/em skips off laughing waiting for that certain job 'nerf'

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Originally Posted by Cairdeas

What if you are running a low level dungeon at max level with your friend? No xp there.

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Then your reward is the gratitude of your friend. Seeing as how you're voluntarily there to help a friend, they don't need to give you more incentive.

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Originally Posted by Pyrix

ONE. SINGLE. GIL.

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Wait I'm confused? How much Gil?

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Originally Posted by Fusionx

inb4 "reason to kill them" means "you have to kill every mob in an area to unlock a portal to the next"

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lol at this

more people will cry in forum

wait... maybe its true

a "reason" to defeat every single mob they said... i see no good coming from this...

No idea what they will actually do, but what I would like to see is every monster either drop or have the potential to drop 1 or more tomestones. Have it start out as say 1% chance, with every kill in the dungeon increasing the drop rate. Balance it by changing the amount of tomestones and the drop rate as you see fit. Then keep it so boss fights drop a set amount of tomestones, lower the set amount if necessary.

Anything with a reasonable gil amount lets say 500-1000gil would cover my average repair bill. (wich is around 300-500gil/run.)
(and oh yeah...on my main character that is, not this one...)

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Originally Posted by Boyahd

Oh, let's not forget that FFXI actually gave you incentive to kill trash mobs in dungeon-like settings. It's strange that a game made by the same company ELEVEN YEARS AGO has the right idea in comparison. If anything, this is a hardcore regression that makes me wonder if Yoshi_P only played Korean MMOs, the worst of them all.

Edit: Oh, with a little dash of Guild Wars 2, as it's obvious this is where he pulled the FATE system from. I hope there's an interview with him admitting this as it would be rather disgusting if he doesn't even mention the inspiration.

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Just for the record when he did a live letter way back when he was talking about all the changes he was going to make to FFXIV, he actually stated he played tons of MMO's said afew (including Guild Wars 2) and said he was getting inspiration and advice from them and mechanics he believed would work in this game. So yeah.

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Originally Posted by ilJumperMT

Trash mobs are a waste of time that yield no items or gil.

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I get that some people make the argument that "the incentive is that if you want to kill the bosses than killing the trash is necessary".

The reality, however, is that if the trash mobs did drop gil (lets say enough to compensate for the gil sinks) than that would be more then enough motivation for people to start playing the dungeons "correctly". I mean you could speed run..and not make enough gil to pay for your runs..or you could play it the ways its meant to be played and be rewarded for doing so.

Hey, you get 1 gil in AK, that's something! :p

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

We're planning to release a hotfix next week that we'll use to address and adjust a few elements.

One of the adjustments regards the regular monsters in level 50 dungeons and how there is currently no reason to defeat them.

We'll be announcing additional details about the hotfix details soon!

---

Just make "objectives" list - defeat x amount numbers of certain enemies, get certain amount of tomes. And make the Boss battle as the bonus round where it gives additional more tomes that are must be completed to bump up the amount of rewards. This way players have to hunt down the enemies to complete the objectives or it will severely undercut the rewards potential. Also for each objectives completed you get 300 gils, so you end up with 3000 gils per dungeon if you complete all objectives and boss battle. If we have to do the dungeon for twice as long then the reward should be doubled. Also make those mobs drop random end game crafting items for better weapons and random materias tier 3 + 4.

Basically make each end game dungeon runs as "multiple levee runs" with gil rewards, item rewards, and additional tomes. You already have the mechanic of these "killed x amount number of enemies" in the game, why not use it.

Honestly kinda worried about this hotfix.

No one is doing CM or AK for gil. They want tomes. Mobs dropping more gil isn't going to make me want to waste time fighting them. No one is going "Man, I want to waste my time killing all these trash mobs, but only if they'd drop enough gil to at least cover the repair costs..." So hopefully it's not that.

Them dropping tomes would be great. But only if they DON'T adjust the amount of tomes you get from bosses. If they lower the boss tomes to even things out then all that would do is make the grind even more horrible than it is now. Same reward, except now you have to fight more trash! Yay. The rewards have to be greater than they are now, or they just made things worse. Making CM worse...that would be quite the feat.

Please don't mess this up, SE. I know you want to prolong the game, but if the grind is too brutal then you're not doing yourselves any favors. I would gear up multiple jobs if it didn't mean running the same dungeon over and over and over and over x 60 or whatever. That's already not fun. Don't make it even less fun. Please.

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Originally Posted by Miburo

Honestly kinda worried about this hotfix.

No one is doing CM or AK for gil. They want tomes. Mobs dropping more gil isn't going to make me want to waste time fighting them. No one is going "Man, I want to waste my time killing all these trash mobs, but only if they'd drop enough gil to at least cover the repair costs..." So hopefully it's not that.

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Yes. While I might want the party to go out of their way for an extra 1K gil per run, everyone farming won't want to waste the time they could be getting Tomestones. Gil isn't enough of an incentive to go for all the trash mobs, because many people aren't poor enough to warrant that waste of time. It's called a SPEED run because people want to defeat it as quickly as possible so they can hurry and do it again. The only viable solution would be to have mobs drop tomestones. Even 1 or 2 per mob would really help out.

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

I thought this game is casual why do people want to fix speed runs? do you all really want to waste 30-45m+ a run to get your points? I play 8-10hours a day so at the end it does not bug me w/e they do but i thought more then half of players are casual lol.

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8-10 hours a day?!? Is this game a full time job to you? lmao

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Originally Posted by Miburo

Honestly kinda worried about this hotfix.

No one is doing CM or AK for gil. They want tomes. Mobs dropping more gil isn't going to make me want to waste time fighting them. No one is going "Man, I want to waste my time killing all these trash mobs, but only if they'd drop enough gil to at least cover the repair costs..." So hopefully it's not that.

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I have seen so many threads on these forums from people bitching about how the endgame is not sustainable due to the fact that the repair costs associated with running dungeons far outweighs the reward for those dungeons...so what you end up with is a large gil sink that drains money from the economy.

Some of you want the best of both worlds...you want to quick run the dungeons over and over...but you also want enormous rewards for skipping the majority of the dungeons..sorry it shouldn't work that way. In fact, I think they should tie the tome reward to the percentage of mobs you kill and if you clear the dungeon maybe provide a tome bonus on top of the gil earned from killing the mobs.

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Originally Posted by Uriahnool

Yes. While I might want the party to go out of their way for an extra 1K gil per run, everyone farming won't want to waste the time they could be getting Tomestones. Gil isn't enough of an incentive to go for all the trash mobs, because many people aren't poor enough to warrant that waste of time. It's called a SPEED run because people want to defeat it as quickly as possible so they can hurry and do it again. The only viable solution would be to have mobs drop tomestones. Even 1 or 2 per mob would really help out.

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I'm pretty sure the previous changes implies they don't want people doing "speed runs". At least not by the same meaning that most of us are used to, which is to avoid everything you can to finish the instance without losing a single second.

Tomestones dropping from mobs would be a bit extreme IMO, given that that's part of the games current means of gating endgame. Great if they do make it that way, but seems a little too poorly thought out, given that this is just a hotfix... which I'm not sure is even the appropriate term, unless it literally was a mistake they made.