History repeats itself: Time for the Great Archer Nerf of 2011

we are talking about nerfing archer, not nerfing THM, which worth in another thread. so to make your argument relevant, you must proving ARC is overpowered. what you just showing is THM overpower, not archer. so its irrevelant.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

You just don't comprehend anything relevant to the discussion, do you?

Seven archers and a thaumaturge obviates the need for any archer to tank anything, even if they could. In fact, it completely negates any archer's argument that they are a "glass cannon". Pathetic argument, irrelevant to the discussion. That thaumaturge can solo the great buffalo. You aren't a glass cannon. You're a cannon.

That's why you and six other archers will carry around a token thaumaturge.

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You're trying to add a THM to ARC to make it more powerful. Any DD can carry a token THM and get things done.

ARC may be the best DD thats currently in the game but they deserve to be. And there's not this HUGE distance in DPS between ARC and the other DD's.

I'm just the only guy on the forum willing and cognizant enough to stop four years of archers and their posturing, just like rangers did, before it starts. That we already have 19 pages of over-entitled archers kinda just says I made this post a month and a half too late.


Look at em. Making the same statements rangers did, for the same reasons.
They earned the right to be powerful.
We can't take hits so we deserve the power.
Archer's not imbalanced, it's the "most balanced."
You're just jealous.

No, I don't like games that fail so hard that bard, ninja, black mage, red mage, and ranger are really the only jobs in the game while everyone else is a second class citizen.

Your busted class caused problems in XI. Those mistakes are being made all over again. Tanaka was the only thing standing between 2002 rangers and their ranger-get and now he's gone.

The next 4 years of this game are going to go the same way as XI. Over-entitled archers and thaumaturges running endgame and any difficult content, demanding content to be more difficult than blended "gimp" setups can handle.

Again, this game's already losing diversity faster than a CoP static.

And some players like it that way because it makes them feel special.

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Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

You're trying to add a THM to ARC to make it more powerful. Any DD can carry a token THM and get things done.

ARC may be the best DD thats currently in the game but they deserve to be. And there's not this HUGE distance in DPS between ARC and the other DD's.

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This. so the argument is not proving ARC should be nerfed, but THM IS.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

I'm just the only guy on the forum willing and cognizant enough to stop four years of archers and their posturing, just like rangers did, before it starts. That we already have 19 pages of over-entitled archers kinda just says I made this post a month and a half too late.

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just make the video, like the THM. then it worth of discussion of nerfing or not.

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Originally Posted by Joe_Cool

You're trying to add a THM to ARC to make it more powerful. Any DD can carry a token THM and get things done.

ARC may be the best DD thats currently in the game but they deserve to be. And there's not this HUGE distance in DPS between ARC and the other DD's.

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That's exactly what you'll do. You're just extremely pissed that someone sees exactly what you're trying to do, and unlike you they're not impressed with your grand schemes to rule the endgame.

A. Kite it!
B. Token tank! Not that one, the one that can heal itself and punishing barb!
C. Ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger! UHranger ranger ranger ranger ranger ranger.

GET THAT PUGILIST OUT OF HERE. Waste of a Victimize ability!

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Originally Posted by Aion

just make the video, like the THM. then it worth of discussion of nerfing or not.

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Your tanking ability is not an issue. You're the one who fails when you argue that you're not a tank, so you should have OP damage. Not me. YOU show me a buffalo fight where you're tanking. You're the one saying you're a glass cannon. And yet one would think I'd be the one laughing at you for not showing me where you're paying that price.

I'm sorry, I see thaumaturges and gladiators negating your argument that your weakling status gives you permission to over-damage. Even if you are right that you're a wet noodle.

Which you're not, but doesn't even matter.

You arguing you're a glass cannon (that never gets hit and thus never pays any of that price) is a fail as the archers in this topic saying they EARNED the right to outdamage everyone because they paid good gil (oxymoron) for it.

No, you pay good gil to stay out of AoE range. When you're talking about R50's fighting a R75 mob, everyone is "glass."

Again, you all are so unbelievably predictable as archer fans. You actually think we haven't learned why your arguments don't work, after what...almost a decade of arguing this very thing.

You all have nothing to argue. The second archers outdamage meleers is the second they require nerfs because it is UNFAIR to tether meleers inside AoE range. The more powerful the mob, the more archers KNOW they will be called on.

They know it. And they would rather play their little busted tricks and game than to build balance into the other jobs. **** the other guys, all eyes on rangers. So say the rangers.

What are the rangers saying in FFXI now...lol nothing. pwned.

The more you posture, the more satisfying it's going to be seeing an entirely new generation of ranged attackers get their asses handed to them by the devs.

First, of all battle classes, NONE is as vulnerable as archer. Secondly, you do realize the guy who wrote the initial post that set you off on your blind jealous rage isn't an archer, right? Or a thaumaturge. He's a Gladiator who would get hit by any attack, ranged or otherwise, because that's his job. He doesn't have some crazy agenda, and he's not a part of any conspiracy. It really is just stupid that every mob in the game attacks from range.

Can't believe this eyesore is still going on, with OP using the invalid point with fallacy I pointed out again and again, and even some ppl praised OP defended well despite OP ignored all the critical question and still giving no source or proof.

Just a karma warning to you OP,
if you so adamant hoping a job, which the gaming population enjoyed, to be nerf with all of your failing logic and baseless standpoint, beware it comes back to you at tenfold.

You have been warned. It's coming.
People learned lesson from that, and unfortunately, the history would be repeated on you.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Your tanking ability is not an issue. You're the one who fails when you argue that you're not a tank, so you should have OP damage. Not me. YOU show me a buffalo fight where you're tanking. You're the one saying you're a glass cannon. And yet one would think I'd be the one laughing at you for not showing me where you're paying that price.

I'm sorry, I see thaumaturges and gladiators negating your argument that your weakling status gives you permission to over-damage. Even if you are right that you're a wet noodle.

Which you're not, but doesn't even matter.

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Yes Archer SHOULD Overdamage other class, thats the NATURE of Archer, give me example of MMO that its archer not overdamaging melee class,will you?

why should I showing ARC tanking GB?? while my R25 Arc cannot survive against R32 Algoat Billy? what is this nonsense "your tanking is not an issue"? while the fragility of ARC is trade off of their BURST DAMAGE, as simple as that.

i disagree that archer should outdmg other DDs, what is that based on? fact is in a tank situation there is no advantage to survivability, if they really do outdmg dds, then he is right the best party will end up being tank rng rng rng rng rng rng thm

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Originally Posted by RoninYabusame

First, of all battle classes, NONE is as vulnerable as archer. Secondly, you do realize the guy who wrote the initial post that set you off on your blind jealous rage isn't an archer, right? Or a thaumaturge. He's a Gladiator who would get hit by any attack, ranged or otherwise, because that's his job. He doesn't have some crazy agenda, and he's not a part of any conspiracy. It really is just stupid that every mob in the game attacks from range.

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Archer: enmity minus everywhere. You're not vulnerable at all. The only reason you're vulnerable is because all those pesky meleers are so behind your damage that you stick out like a sore thumb. If only those meleers were ARCHERS like you! Ohh how grand that would be.

Maybe the gladiator has dreams of kiting kirin with a staff on. You don't know.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Archer: enmity minus everywhere. You're not vulnerable at all. The only reason you're vulnerable is because all those pesky meleers are so behind your damage that you stick out like a sore thumb. If only those meleers were ARCHERS like you! Ohh how grand that would be.

Maybe the gladiator has dreams of kiting kirin with a staff on. You don't know.

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And you have dreams of being our Conjurer Jesus, savior of the world from all the terrible people who choose a different weapon than you. LOL

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Archer: enmity minus everywhere. You're not vulnerable at all. The only reason you're vulnerable is because all those pesky meleers are so behind your damage that you stick out like a sore thumb. If only those meleers were ARCHERS like you! Ohh how grand that would be.

Maybe the gladiator has dreams of kiting kirin with a staff on. You don't know.

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You have been warned, yet the history is repeating itself. It WILL come back to you. TENFOLD.

Archer's kiting is a common gameplay in other MMO.....and while here you cant kite, and some people want to take ARC damage also???

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Originally Posted by Physic

i disagree that archer should outdmg other DDs, what is that based on? fact is in a tank situation there is no advantage to survivability, if they really do outdmg dds, then he is right the best party will end up being tank rng rng rng rng rng rng thm

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Ba-ding. You all can't win this fight. Honestly you can't. I was there for the great war, and my side won. There is nothing you can do to re-argue this debate. We now know EXACTLY when rangers need nerfing, and you're due. 8 years of FFXI history under my belt. I've seen the rise and fall of your fathers. I was there. And I argued for it. And I got it.

Ditch the tank, physic. Add another thaumaturge or archer. The thaumaturge can tank. The tank can't damage, so he's unnecessary. You see that thaumaturge tanking the great buffalo. What is a gladiator then? A bad thaumaturge with a long barb recast.

People are just mad that I know exactly what they're thinking.
Know what...so was Tanaka, and he wasn't about to have any of that **** in this game again.

Again, you want to know why antelopes spit on you?
This is why. Archers arching on their archer. Just like their dads did.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Ba-ding. You all can't win this fight. Honestly you can't. I was there for the great war, and my side won. There is nothing you can do to re-argue this debate. We now know EXACTLY when rangers need nerfing, and you're due. 8 years of FFXI history under my belt. I've seen the rise and fall of your fathers. I was there. And I argued for it. And I got it.

Ditch the tank, physic. Add another thaumaturge or archer. The thaumaturge can tank. The tank can't damage, so he's unnecessary. You see that thaumaturge tanking the great buffalo. What is a gladiator then? A bad thaumaturge with a long barb recast.

People are just mad that I know exactly what they're thinking.
Know what...so was Tanaka, and he wasn't about to have any of that **** in this game again.

Again, you want to know why antelopes spit on you?
This is why. Archers arching on their archer. Just like their dads did.

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You lost horrible in every aspect(except your own) in this so-call debate..and what.. great war?
I guess I learn new things everyday. New level of shamelessness, i guess.

You even dont know why exactly ranger is nerfed.

You totally ignored all the real question and your own baseless logic. And you "proclaim" you won.
Yea, you won, the king of shamelessness.

Too bad I can't "like" my own post. It is perfect.

the title is about nerfing ARC but the OP keep talking about THM-blah, shame

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Originally Posted by RoninYabusame

And you have dreams of being our Conjurer Jesus, savior of the world from all the terrible people who choose a different weapon than you. LOL

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Half the reason I started with conjurer was to make sure this class didn't BLACK MAGE it up. Because FFXI's pain didn't start with rangers. They started with black mages and transitioned to rangers. I should have gone with my instinct and kept levelling archer. I levelled archer to 30 in beta twice for this exact reason too. To make sure they were doing it right this time.

Tanaka mostly had archers in check. Unfortunately the new team didn't get the memo to watch archer and the mages like a hawk. Now we have two classes who have crown too entitled for nerfing, so now the only option is to hammer them against their collective will.

Too late. Can't stop history when no one else is paying attention. I was watching conjurer. No one was watching archer and thaumaturge.

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Originally Posted by Timotheus

You lost horrible in every aspect(except your own) in this so-call debate..and what.. great war?
I guess I learn new things everyday. New level of shamelessness, i guess.

You even dont know why exactly ranger is nerfed.

You totally ignored all the real question and your own baseless logic. And you "proclaim" you won.
Yea, you won, the king of shamelessness.

Too bad I can't "like" my own post. It is perfect.

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Dude, my side shut archers up so hard in XI that they didnt' say a word for years.

No, YOU have no idea why ranger was nerfed. I bet you don't even know how ranger damage used to be calculated.

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Originally Posted by Physic

i disagree that archer should outdmg other DDs, what is that based on? fact is in a tank situation there is no advantage to survivability, if they really do outdmg dds, then he is right the best party will end up being tank rng rng rng rng rng rng thm

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and if the tank dies,who would tank? if tank fails to keep the enmity,can the ARC survive enemy hits? and please take the OP THM out of this discussion will you? we're talking about the ARC compare with other melee job

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Dude, my side shut archers up so hard in XI that they didnt' say a word for years.

No, YOU have no idea why ranger was nerfed. I bet you don't even know how ranger damage used to be calculated.

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you are challenging a player in FFXI who started playing since JP PS2 release. Are you sure?
your side? who is on your side. debate? which forum? I am pretty sure I was full time at Allakazham overlooking the real debate at that time.

Of course there is no logic that can comparable to yours, in terms of fallacy. So I am REALLY not sure who is on "your" side.

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Originally Posted by Timotheus

you are challenging a player in FFXI who started playing since JP PS2 release. Are you sure?

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Uh yeah. Gee, I wouldn't expect an importer to be able to put their OP job down. You're all about paying more for advantage, amirite? Were you a ranger? Did you play ranger because it made you feel good? Did it get you the attention you craved? Did you argue the same things you're arguing now? You earned it? You deserve it? It's your right?

Same fate for the same mistakes. If you were there to see what ranger did to that game and weren't a ranger, god help you because you sure won't help yourself.

And if you were a ranger...well apparently you didn't learn your lesson the first time.
Tanaka beat you with a baseball bat the last time the ranged class got out of hand.
You'd better hope Yoshi-P played ranged in...**** he was a ranged class.

Oh well. We're boned.

I lived in Asia and totally competence in Japanese. Why not play earlier?
No one know there is gonna be a US version at May 02.
I can give you my 6-digit POL handle ID as proof if you want.

Ranger was totally broken at that time, yet they over-nerfed it.
Archer brokeness is no where comparable to what RNG at that time.

Know which job got 1st nuke-nerfed ever in FFXI? It was BLM, fixed at 1st July 02 patch.
Nerfing near 100% macc Bind with no hate and 20s+ duration to near rubbish

btw, I was no rng. I know you like to personal attack in order to show your shamelessness, unfortunately I was no rng, but a blm.

OP is jealous because most of MMO make ARC is the most damaging job(burst/spike)

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Originally Posted by Aion

and if the tank dies,who would tank? if tank fails to keep the enmity,can the ARC survive enemy hits? and please take the OP THM out of this discussion will you? we're talking about the ARC compare with other melee job

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Dude, seriously. You're like a mafia guy saying whaaaaat I was jus' gon' hug him a little bit!
We all know of every elitist shell's daring schemes to get 7 archers and a thaumaturge ready by raid time so they can brag about server firsts, record time kills, etc. etc.

lol is this thread for real?

Archer is fine. They can demolish regular mobs just fine, but if you fight anything more than 10 ranks higher than you without a tank, you better kill it fast or get destroyed.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

lol is this thread for real?

Archer is fine. They can demolish regular mobs just fine, but if you fight anything more than 10 ranks higher than you without a tank, you better kill it fast or get destroyed.

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what about with a tank though? Im not really saying they are OP, i havent done the math, but if they are actually more powerfull than other DD, then yeah other DD need not exist. Im not saying nerf is the only way, they could buff as well, or alter mob mechanics, but a ranger with a tank is taking very little risk as it is, and if they do more dmg, then yeah, problem may be there

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Originally Posted by Aion

OP is jealous because most of MMO make ARC is the most damaging job(burst/spike)

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Haha the JELLY argument again. I know and you know there are players who play nothing but mages and ranged attackers in MMOs because they're always chronically overpowered and they grant said players the undue attention they could never earn as a meleer. Most FFXI rangers wouldn't have what it takes to lfp as a decked-ass meleer. They couldn't even compete.

Like I said last time one of you all made this argument: not only am I not jealous of you, but this argument is at the top of the list of why an impending nerf will be so...funny. Amusing. Karma. If you were a little more...tolerable...I might actually have felt bad for rangers after what Tanaka did the last time they got too bold and started telling the rest of us were were just JEALOUS.

What's the phrase, "jealous?" sound like through a straw? Never heard rangers ask that question after their beating. I'd imagine it sounds like "JRMMMRRRR?"

No. I'm not jealous. DAMN are you jacked up lol...

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Originally Posted by Physic

what about with a tank though? Im not really saying they are OP, i havent done the math, but if they are actually more powerfull than other DD, then yeah other DD need not exist. Im not saying nerf is the only way, they could buff as well, or alter mob mechanics, but a ranger with a tank is taking very little risk as it is, and if they do more dmg, then yeah, problem may be there

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In normal situation, with the crazy hate modifier that ARC currently have, NO SINGLE TANK can hold hate if the ARC goes all out and outdamage other DD. If you want ARC goes all out, you always need more tank then arc to minimize risk, lowering the total output as a result of reducing total number of DD available.

THIS shouldbe what balance ARC. Hate.
but the system is broken. arc need no nerf. the only thing need fix is the enmity system.

Threads like these are the reason I wish they never made a forums. Idiots like you filling SE's ears with garbage that you have no clue what you are talking about..... "Use multi shot then Weapon skill for 3k dmg"..... GTFO Maybe learn about the class and try to understand how it works before getting your torch and storming the gates screaming and crying nerf nerf nerf like a butt hurt two year old child.

SE pay this troll no attention.

Edit: After reading more of this awful thread, I think it is clear there is some mental issues going on..... Maybe get back on the meds?

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Originally Posted by Fiddle_Sticks

Threads like these are the reason I wish they never made a forums. Idiots like you filling SE's ears with garbage that you have no clue what you are talking about..... "Use multi shot then Weapon skill for 3k dmg"..... GTFO Maybe learn about the class and try to understand how it works before getting your torch and storming the gates screaming and crying nerf nerf nerf like a butt hurt two year old child.

SE pay this troll no attention.

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Thats why I have been actively de-credit and de-rail the thread in the middle pages, so that SE would not even try to consider any content within this thread.

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Originally Posted by Physic

what about with a tank though? Im not really saying they are OP, i havent done the math, but if they are actually more powerfull than other DD, then yeah other DD need not exist. Im not saying nerf is the only way, they could buff as well, or alter mob mechanics, but a ranger with a tank is taking very little risk as it is, and if they do more dmg, then yeah, problem may be there

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Let's just put it in terms we all know because most of us have been there and done that.

At great buffalo:

Team 1: Gladiator, archer, archer, archer, conjurer, thaumaturge.
Team 2: Gladiator, pugilist, lancer, marauder, conjurer, thaumaturge,

One team wins with 6 minutes to spare.
The other team gets raged and there's really not a lot they can do about it without 2 more DD.

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Originally Posted by Fiddle_Sticks

Threads like these are the reason I wish they never made a forums. Idiots like you filling SE's ears with garbage that you have no clue what you are talking about..... "Use multi shot then Weapon skill for 3k dmg"..... GTFO Maybe learn about the class and try to understand how it works before getting your torch and storming the gates screaming and crying nerf nerf nerf like a butt hurt two year old child.

SE pay this troll no attention.

Edit: After reading more of this awful thread, I think it is clear there is some mental issues going on..... Maybe get back on the meds?

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You're just mad that someone already knows your entire scheme in this game, and is getting in your way. And the funny part is you can't respond in any other way but raging. Medicines. Really. That's great! Good comeback.

You're not fooling anyone lol...Tanaka was onto you before you even started, but you've made yourselves a little bore-hole in the game in all the chaos.

Welp, time to stop the archer archer archer archer archer archer.

It completely enrages you that I took your plan to be this awesome archer that everyone looked up to...oh it's an ARCHER save us Archer Jebus!!!...and openly mocked it and threw what happened to you last time you tried in your face.

You earned it last time. You will earn it again.

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Originally Posted by Physic

what about with a tank though? Im not really saying they are OP, i havent done the math, but if they are actually more powerfull than other DD, then yeah other DD need not exist. Im not saying nerf is the only way, they could buff as well, or alter mob mechanics, but a ranger with a tank is taking very little risk as it is, and if they do more dmg, then yeah, problem may be there

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They are more powerfull than other DD jobs. They have the highest physical damage output in the game. They are also fragile as hell.

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Originally Posted by Timotheus

Thats why I have been actively de-credit and de-rail the thread in the middle pages, so that SE would not even try to consider any content within this thread.

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Why, so you can run the game on your archer like you did XI with your ranger?
Gee, I would think that the next time you pushed your luck on a ranged attacker, they'd just straight ban you and tell you not to come back.

I would. Jack with XI for 4 years, kill off almost all the meleers, use them as 2nd class citizens...and you want to come back and start that again, see if you can get away with it a 2nd time?

Huh uh. Tanaka, you still have that ranger bat? You WILL be needing it here in about 3 months.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

They are more powerfull than other DD jobs. They have the highest physical damage output in the game. They are also fragile as hell.

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Fail argument again. Didn't EVER see that argument from FFXI rangers!
"they are fragile"
Well so is every other R50 fighting a R75 mob. Everyone is glass at Fafnir. Your glass just has the luxury of staying out of AoE range.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Why, so you can run the game on your archer like you did XI with your ranger?
Gee, I would think that the next time you pushed your luck on a ranged attacker, they'd just straight ban you and tell you not to come back.

I would. Jack with XI for 4 years, kill off almost all the meleers, use them as 2nd class citizens...and you want to come back and start that again, see if you can get away with it a 2nd time?

Huh uh. Tanaka, you still have that ranger bat? You WILL be needing it here in about 3 months.

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I stated I dont play ranger, fool.

FOOL.
Seems you are even something beyond king of shamelessness.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

You're just mad that someone already knows your entire scheme to with this game, and is getting in your way. And the funny part is you can't respond in any other way but raging. Medicines. Really. That's great! Good comeback.

You're not fooling anyone lol...Tanaka was onto you before you even started, but you've made yourselves a little bore-hole in the game in all the chaos.

Welp, time to stop the archer archer archer archer archer archer.

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sad, just sad...

I don't even play ARC.... Why do I even care, my ARC is r19.... So no I'm not " just mad that someone already knows my entire scheme to with this game, and is getting in my way"

Trolls will be trolls.... But, I'm out of here, sorry I will not feed you anymore.... Have fun with you're trolling and making yourself look retarded.

Edit: Comment removed...