Materia System

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amineri

I see your point, but what are the alternatives?

What are the alternatives?

---

Let me cook something up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Physic

its just because, lets say that while you have an item equiped you get attachment, and you have some good item that you want to add materia too, The system would encourage you to wear the gear that needed to level, and not the one that you wanted to make powerful.
hence you would be using your gimped attachment gear most of the time rather than your god armor of the heavens. It makes a lot of sense while your leveling, to give your new gear some boost from your old, but high level, it means wear gimp gear, equip god gear for boss only maybe.

soooo they got to figure how to balance that urge

---

Why do they have to balance that urge? People who don't wanna spend god awful amounts of time making awesome materia can do their thing, while the ones who do can farm all the materia to their heart's content. Conversly you can also buy and/or trade materia.

Options, people.

I think it would be cool if we had to talk to an NPC who gives you a random "crystallized item" that you have to use to accumulate attachment points for, and then that item becomes materia after you reach 100% with it. This said item can be random, like a weapon of any type, or some kind of armor.
At least that way we don't have to sacrifice our own (in some cases) hard to earn gear. I would feel better about loosing gear that I know would be lost for a good cause.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SydeBeheln

I think it would be cool if we had to talk to an NPC who gives you a random "crystallized item" that you have to use to accumulate attachment points for, and then that item becomes materia after you reach 100% with it. This said item can be random, like a weapon of any type, or some kind of armor.
At least that way we don't have to sacrifice our own (in some cases) hard to earn gear. I would feel better about loosing gear that I know would be lost for a good cause.

---

Gaining really awesome materia could be done in quests like these.

I like the idea of this consuming gear, however it should ONLY work on craftable and salable gear.

For example, players should not be incentivized to camp multiple Ridills because they want to randomly generate the ultimate Materia.

The ultimate use of this should be to give additional sale opportunities for crafters so people can power-up their super-rare weapons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SydeBeheln

I think it would be cool if we had to talk to an NPC who gives you a random "crystallized item" that you have to use to accumulate attachment points for, and then that item becomes materia after you reach 100% with it. This said item can be random, like a weapon of any type, or some kind of armor.
At least that way we don't have to sacrifice our own (in some cases) hard to earn gear. I would feel better about loosing gear that I know would be lost for a good cause.

---

you should probably only blow up gear that you dont need anymore. IE you outlevel or find a rarer version, you kill your gear that you love, take its soul and put into your new gear. What a bastard move

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ravidrath

I like the idea of this consuming gear, however it should ONLY work on craftable and salable gear.

For example, players should not be incentivized to camp multiple Ridills because they want to randomly generate the ultimate Materia.

The ultimate use of this should be to give additional sale opportunities for crafters so people can power-up their super-rare weapons.

---

Ooh, extremely good point.

Never again with the spawn camping!

If there's an ultimate piece of gear to be obtained from an open world goal(mainly NM's), then it shouldn't be able to be materia...lized. Or if it can be, then it shouldn't turn into anything better then similar level, more easily obtained gear.

Running list of player critique of the Materia system, with proposed solutions:


Problem:
Matsui's new system focuses on rewarding the effort and innovation of players playing at their best, but this system seems to incentivize equipping low-grade equipment to battle. These focuses seem antagonistic to each other, and a player may be forced to choose between being at their best and getting materia.
Solution
You can attach to one tool, one weapon, and three armors at any given time. You do not have to be wearing said armor to attach.

Problem:
Jobs that have already hit the level cap sustain massive reductions in the amount of hits they perform on a given weapon or in a given armor set, relegating attachment to gear to a "grinding" activity like levelling or farming, which are either impossible for some or not fun for most.

Solution
You do not have to be on the job of the armor weapon or tool that you are attaching to
Diverse actions found in different playstyles cause attachment.

Problem:
Materia growing appears to be an activity that favors current unaddressed problems in the game: players who farm shards with bots will now have more incentive to continue this activity. Let's not pretend that shard bots don't exist, or allow a system that further rewards that behavior.

Solution
More positively correlate materia growth to activities with high impact value, less growth for menial grinding and timespamming.

Problem:
This system will eventually settle out to what outcome is common and what is rare as a means to distinguish materia on gear. For battlers, that rare event seems to be HQ'ing materia as their mechanism for power. For crafters, it seems to be that rare double materia attach. Where is the power-outcome for gatherers to give them equal weight?

Solution
-very rare catalysts
-Limiting common provisions to making common results.

Problem:
The system feels like an archaic MMO farm or grind activity, which this game must avoid if it is to rise above.
Solution
-Diverse actions found in different playstyles cause attachment.

Problem:
INVENTORY!
Solution
-new tab.

Problem:
If Rare/ Ex/ Rare Ex gear is consumable, it may drive rampant demand for bottleneck-supplied pieces.
Solution
-Rare/ Ex/ Rare Ex pieces do not produce materia, but very amenable to receiving materia.

Problem:
One Materia?!?
Solution
Two?

Problem:
Crafters may be able to double dip profits from this system, enjoying steady sales of their over-produced crap and charging ridiculous prices for materia inlaying and HQ inlaying.
Solution
Emphasize crafters' primary economic benefit to be to increase demand for their undesired final product production, not primarily from profit from materia activity.

Problem
If catalysts are made rare from gathering to give gatherers economic weight in the system, demand will drive overproduction of every other gathering material which is as big a problem as or a BIGGER problem than gear overproduction

Solution
-Separate catalyst aquisition from primary material aquisition
-Reduce incidental material-gets
-Place catalysts in secondary gathering locations

You very clearly state

Quote:

---

Finally, rumors tell of a forbidden technique with a high risk of failure to attach another materia to an item that already has a materia attached to it…

---

A materia? as in 1?

I REALLY hope there can be more than 1 materia on each piece of equip.
That would REALLY be a downer.

I want to add 2-6 materia PER piece of gear I have.

Reduce the effect of each materia if you have to, I don't want no 1 stupid materia per gear I wear!

Thanks!

I think this idea is EXACTLY what this game needs.

Think about it, you add materia to an item, it makes it untradeable as well as enhancing stats.

This does two key things:

1.) Fixes the problem of items flooding the market, and deflation; everything is basically worthless because you can just trade your crap back into the market. In this system, you'll have to vendor things you don't want instead of reselling them.

FIXED!!!

2.) Players have complained about lack of stats affecting gameplay. Now, more than ever with materia, stats will have a more substantial effect, giving the player more of a feel for stats in general.

I think this is exactly what this game needs right now to balance some issues and give the player some meaning and weight to their actions. In both items having value and rarity, as well as stats starting to matter in the game, this is a great decision by the dev team. In conjunction with the planned battle and physical level changes, this whole thing could turn the game around!!

Keep in mind I haven't played in months, but this kind of new development is the sort of thing that make me start playing again, I'm sure with many others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoctorMog

You very clearly state



A materia? as in 1?



I REALLY hope there can be more than 1 materia on each piece of equip.
That would REALLY be a downer.

I want to add 2-6 materia PER piece of gear I have.

Reduce the effect of each materia if you have to, I don't want no 1 stupid materia per gear I wear!

Thanks!

---

That would be too much to be honest. This isn't ff7's version of materia. Decreasing the effectiveness of materia just so you can equip more than one, is the same as equipping 1 or 2, and having larger effects.

There's nothing saying in the future they will add quests to undertake to expand even further. but who knows

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoctorMog

You very clearly state



A materia? as in 1?

I REALLY hope there can be more than 1 materia on each piece of equip.
That would REALLY be a downer.

I want to add 2-6 materia PER piece of gear I have.

Reduce the effect of each materia if you have to, I don't want no 1 stupid materia per gear I wear!

Thanks!

---

Not to mention you would be doing 2-6 materia Per item, every single time you upgrade gear?? That would be ridiculous lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SydeBeheln

That would be too much to be honest. This isn't ff7's version of materia. Decreasing the effectiveness of materia just so you can equip more than one, is the same as equipping 1 or 2, and having larger effects.

There's nothing saying in the future they will add quests to undertake to expand even further. but who knows

---

If there is only 1-2 materia slots per item, You run into the problem that EVERYONE will have the SAME materia in the SAME gear. Why? because THIS body piece has the most STR, and thus EVERYONE puts more STR into it.

Customization plox!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoctorMog

If there is only 1-2 materia slots per item, You run into the problem that EVERYONE will have the SAME materia in the SAME gear. Why? because THIS body piece has the most STR, and thus EVERYONE puts more STR into it.

Customization plox!

---

Following that line of thought, people will do the exact same thing with 6 slots.

People will equip the best stuff they can get for any given situation, and more often than not, people's gear will overlap. It's inevitable and there isn't much you can do about it.

I already have an idea about how i will personaly mass produce materia

not bad at all, not bad at all

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DoctorMog

If there is only 1-2 materia slots per item, You run into the problem that EVERYONE will have the SAME materia in the SAME gear. Why? because THIS body piece has the most STR, and thus EVERYONE puts more STR into it.

Customization plox!

---

Your assuming materia is going to be as simple as "+3 str." or "+5 dex."

I am gonna post it one more time people are acting like they know what the materia system is when they know nothing at all i already see people saying omg this is gonna make people do xyz thing in battle now just stop with the senseless speculation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Firon

I am gonna post it one more time people are acting like they know what the materia system is when they know nothing at all i already see people saying omg this is gonna make people do xyz thing in battle now just stop with the senseless speculation.

---

Uh no champ. They asked for feedback. The world isn't all voodoo and magic. There are expected consequences and results of developmental actions that players are the best to comment on. It's not speculation. It's consultation.

If you want to go sit in the corner and wait on your food, get out of the kitchen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cairdeas

Also, Please PLEASE keep the name.

---

Well it looks like its official now what with "materia conversion" and all...I would assume anyway. System sounds cool, I hope it pans out well...this'll give people incentive to hang onto armor for extended periods and use the armor on multiple classes probably.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Uh no champ. They asked for feedback. The world isn't all voodoo and magic. There are expected consequences and results of developmental actions that players are the best to comment on. It's not speculation. It's consultation.

If you want to go sit in the corner and wait on your food, get out of the kitchen.

---

But you don't know anything your saying shit about the system you haven't even used yet. You cant give feed back on something you haven't used.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Firon

But you don't know anything your saying shit about the system you haven't even used yet. You cant give feed back on something you haven't used.

---

lol it's done all the time.
Again, if you don't want to do it just go sit somewhere and wait on the product.
This is the part where you are SUPPOSED to be helping.

Devs don't play this game like we do. They asked for feedback on what they have, primarily so they don't keep producing the **** fest that was September without realizing it too late again.

Understand?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Firon

But you don't know anything your saying shit about the system you haven't even used yet. You cant give feed back on something you haven't used.

---

They gave us quite a bit of information. With that in mind, and nothing more, you can say a lot about the system. They even gave us some potential effects and mechanisms. It works kind of like the repair system when you equip the materia. It makes gear untradeable. Among many other things, you can definitely give feedback to the fairly detailed explanation they gave.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Firon

But you don't know anything your saying shit about the system you haven't even used yet. You cant give feed back on something you haven't used.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bayohne

Got some new tidbits regarding the upcoming Materia system implementation to share with you straight from the dev. team!


We're looking forward to hearing feedback on this! :)

---

they did say they were looking forward to feedback, you give feeddback on the information they presented. The people in charge can see what they already thought of or didnt, whatever your feedback is on this system is worthwhile, no reason to try to silence people doing what they asked them to do

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rentahamster

If you read the original Japanese post, it's a little clearer that you turn the actual item into materia.

---

Told ya.


As far as not wanting to use your own HQ weapons-


Then just buy your own materia. Or, find another HQ weapon and turn one of them into materia. It's not that big a deal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Running list of player critique of the Materia system, with proposed solutions:


Problem:
Matsui's new system focuses on rewarding the effort and innovation of players playing at their best, but this system seems to incentivize equipping low-grade equipment to battle. These focuses seem antagonistic to each other, and a player may be forced to choose between being at their best and getting materia.
Solution
You can attach to one tool, one weapon, and three armors at any given time. You do not have to be wearing said armor to attach.

---

I wouldn't agree 100% with "equipping low-grade equipment to battle". Another way to characterize this is "gives incentives to players to wear gear appropriate to the challenge". It's saying the same thing, just another way to characterize it.

For example, your proposed solution leads to "everyone always wearing the same best gear". And this is just my own bias, but carrying around gear and not using it, in order to power it up to turn it into materia ... just seems kind of weird.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Told ya.


As far as not wanting to use your own HQ weapons-


Then just buy your own materia. Or, find another HQ weapon and turn one of them into materia. It's not that big a deal.

---

They should avoid pyramid schemes where the HQ weapons make HQ parts to make HQ weapons to make HQ parts
Then it becomes how insistant are you to climb the mountain of trash, and the vast majority of people are unable to get on top of the trash so they're buried in losses and mediocrity.

Pyramid schemes are illegal.

Question:

Will jewelry items be able to have materia attached? If so, does that mean the jewelry can also be converted in materia? If not, will this not further marginalize the usefulness of jewelry?

Also, if jewelry can have materia attached, what mechanism brings into balance using three high-rank jewelry pieces (with three pieces of materia) vs six low-rank jewelry pieces (with six pieces of materia)?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amineri

I wouldn't agree 100% with "equipping low-grade equipment to battle". Another way to characterize this is "gives incentives to players to wear gear appropriate to the challenge". It's saying the same thing, just another way to characterize it.

For example, your proposed solution leads to "everyone always wearing the same best gear". And this is just my own bias, but carrying around gear and not using it, in order to power it up to turn it into materia ... just seems kind of weird.

---

If you bring your materia crap out to get sp on, there are players out there who will not tolerate that. Thus would you rather carry around the gear with you to attach to it, or be forced to skill it up on marmots on your own time?

I'd rather keep the 5 pieces I'm attaching to on me, while having the option to perform at my best at all times.

OR you don't even technically have to have it on you. Maybe you trade gear you attach to to a moogle, and it atherite links it to you so that any actions you perform attach directly to the gear. Thus you trade a NPC the gear. It disappears. You go do some stuff. You come back. You get your materia with a chance of HQ.

Thus, you can always put your best foot forward, while cooking a better foot on the backburner.

I bet the further your armor level is from your class level, in either direction, the slower the "materia conversion rate" becomes until it eventually stops. So for those of you saying this'll endorse people wearing armor not appropriate for their rank just so they can convert it to materia, it probably wont play into their favor both from an efficient point of view (as they wont perform well in battle) and the materia point of view.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peregrine

They should avoid pyramid schemes where the HQ weapons make HQ parts to make HQ weapons to make HQ parts

---

Not unless the NQ just can just as easily make as good materia as HQ gear.

And if you don't want to use NQ gear to accumulate "affection points", then don't. Just buy your own materia. It's the same concept as buying stuff from gatherers because you don't want to gather, and buying stuff from crafters because your don't want to craft.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peregrine

If you bring your materia crap out to get sp on, there are players out there who will not tolerate that. Thus would you rather carry around the gear with you to attach to it, or be forced to skill it up on marmots on your own time?

---

Hmmm, already a new buzzword has appeared ... "materia crap".

Sure, there are players that would scream bloody murder if I brought out and used an Iron Halberd instead of an Iron Halberd +2. But, those are the same players that would complain because I wasn't using an Iron Halberd +3, or more likely, that I wasn't using a Lance of whatever flavor they think is best. Fortunately, I don't play with those players ^-^.

Also, the current HQ system really needs to DIAF. There have been more than enough posts already about how HQ gear is 95% or so useless. Weapons and tools, and armor for tanks. That's the only useful HQ gear. Hopefully the materia system will be strong enough to make the absolute need for HQ items relatively moot, and then SE can rework the HQ / crafting quality system without it making such a huge impact on people.

That said, it'll be interesting to see how this plays out with all of the changes to the battle system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Not unless the NQ just can just as easily make as good materia as HQ gear.

And if you don't want to use NQ gear to accumulate "affection points", then don't. Just buy your own materia. It's the same concept as buying stuff from gatherers because you don't want to gather, and buying stuff from crafters because your don't want to craft.

---

Better to never force or incentivise players to wear poor gear in the first place. They will choose to do so, and I won't be inviting them to get SP. Neither will Matsui, because a lancer who doesn't care about their performance, they just care about converting materia...won't be rewarded in the months to come.

I'm not advocating yet another stupid grind addition to this game...materia skillups. No way. That is 4/10 content that RMT, mindless grinders, and botters would love.

Quote:

---

I bet the further your armor level is from your class level, in either direction, the slower the "materia conversion rate" becomes until it eventually stops. So for those of you saying this'll endorse people wearing armor not appropriate for their rank just so they can convert it to materia, it probably wont play into their favor both from an efficient point of view (as they wont perform well in battle) and the materia point of view.

---

Yeah you're right mack, great idea, i bet SE is probably smart enough to think of that themselves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Amineri

Question:

Will jewelry items be able to have materia attached? If so, does that mean the jewelry can also be converted in materia? If not, will this not further marginalize the usefulness of jewelry?

Also, if jewelry can have materia attached, what mechanism brings into balance using three high-rank jewelry pieces (with three pieces of materia) vs six low-rank jewelry pieces (with six pieces of materia)?

---

Believe they said they were removing slot cost at some point. One of the dev posts somewhere mentioned it.

Some suggestions and concerns:
Like others, I am worried about being R50 on the job I love, going to all the effort to make all the gear I really want, and then have it marginalized by having to wear other gear to get my own materia. I enjoy being self sufficient wherever possibly, and helping others that do not have the desire to be so, but I don't want to have to sacrifice my own ability to perform well. If I level a DoL and DoH to use materia, why should I have to essentially nerf/gimp my DoW/DoM to get my materia?

I am also worried about the possibility of better stats on gear giving better materia. This has not been said to be the case, but I would think it is one possibility that at the very least the dev team already considered. The problem with this is that NM gear, which is currently the best gear in the game (arguably) could become the claim fest that it was in 11.

Hi Peregrine and all,

Definitely some good concerns about the Materia System that I hope SE will address before it's released.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Running list of player critique of the Materia system, with proposed solutions:


Problem:
Matsui's new system focuses on rewarding the effort and innovation of players playing at their best, but this system seems to incentivize equipping low-grade equipment to battle. These focuses seem antagonistic to each other, and a player may be forced to choose between being at their best and getting materia.
Solution
You can attach to one tool, one weapon, and three armors at any given time. You do not have to be wearing said armor to attach.

---

This is a good solution. :)

But I also think - (shudder) - that they may be pushing to have you find *2* of the same HQ / "Best" Equipment you have, and expect you to turn 1 into the Ultimate Materia for use on the other.

I could definitely see a situation where SE's Designers think that the "Ultimate Materia" is to have, say TWO Crab Bows +3.

You use one to build up Attachment Points and turn into the best Materia it can spawn, and attach it to your 2nd Crab Bow +3. (~_~)

Is it a crazy grind / crazy expectation to put on Players? Yes. But compared to how long it took people to fully upgrade their Relic Weapons in FF XI (the early years), getting 2 Crab Bows +3 to turn one into Materia for the other is "easy" by comparison. (I don't like it, but I could see them thinking this would be a solution.)

Quote:

---

Problem:
Materia growing appears to be an activity that favors current unaddressed problems in the game: players who farm shards with bots will now have more incentive to continue this activity. Let's not pretend that shard bots don't exist, or allow a system that further rewards that behavior.

Solution
More positively correlate materia growth to activities with high impact value, less growth for menial grinding and timespamming.

---

Definitely agree. :)

I hope Square considers something like "Performing the (New) Battle Regimen / Skillchain System", or "Effectively performing your role in the new Combat System (Debuffing, Enhancing the Party, using different Weaponskills or Actions, Staying at Ideal Distances to Attack, etc.)" or other diversity as you speak of, as the main factor for gaining Attachment Points.

NOT menial grinding of just "kill 1000 Enemies" to get your Materia created.

Quote:

---

Problem:
The system feels like an archaic MMO farm or grind activity, which this game must avoid if it is to rise above.
Solution
-Diverse actions found in different playstyles cause attachment.

---

Agreed. I hope there are things like Multi-Step Challenges, Quests and Trials to overcome to gain Materia, and not just menial grinding.

This would prevent RMT / Bots from just grinding out Materia by equipping random Item and botting for X# of Hours to get Materia to flood the market.

Make it about SKILL. I'd rather spend ~3 months doing all sorts of various Quests and Challenges to gain my Ultimate Materia, vs. 3 months of Grinding over and over to get the same thing.

Lastly, if Square really is thinking about something like "You just have to have TWO of the same +3 Item (one for Materia generation, the other to attach it to)," THAT would actually cause MORE flooding of NQ and +1, +2 items onto the market, as the hardcore would go bonkers trying to get TWO +3 Items of the same type, and in the process, dump twice as many leftovers (NQ, +1, +2) onto the market.

But overall, don't get me wrong, I think this could be really exciting. (^_^)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mack

Yeah you're right mack, great idea, i bet SE is probably smart enough to think of that themselves.

---

It's OK, man. I read it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Malakhim

It's OK, man. I read it.

---

LOL thanks I needed the feedback. I just think SE have thought of the consequences and have done risk analysis on the system, people are just blowing things out of proportion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Better to never force or incentivise players to wear poor gear in the first place. They will choose to do so, and I won't be inviting them to get SP.

---

And if they only had NQ gear to begin with, then what?

Do you not invite people with NQ gear to party with you now?

Yeah, I don't think that ANYTHING that crafters already over-provide should feed into the HQ rates of any new item. Let's be honest. The crafters are the problem here. Too many products. Too little to do with them.

Thus, I don't want to see any crafters blowing +3 weapons on the best materia outcomes. I'd be okay with the only meaningful $$$$$$$$$$$$ that crafters see from this system for their services is a tip for their time. The resulting gear is not going to be sellable anyway.

If they refuse to craft your materia into a weapon, I know I will do it for nothing. Your mats. You bought that weapon from me. That was my benefit.

Crafters are going to rage at that statement, but really they're already benefitting from materia even if they never synth materia synths. People buy those weapons armor and tools to destroy. They get business. They already get their reward.

You can't have crafters double dipping this system by both enjoying people buying their NQ +1 and +2 crap AND taking heavy profits from inlaying materia into things.

One or the other.

Just because it has the name "Materia" on it means absolutely nothing.

This system isn't exactly new or inventive or fresh either. TERA's (now scrapped) crafting/upgrade system basically did the same thing. You took gear, any gear whether farmed, boss drops, world drops ect, and broke it down into a craftable mat and then upgraded other gear with it to make +1 to +9 gear. You lost the original piece of gear in the process to upgrade the new piece of gear. To get close to +9 gear (the best in the game) you would need incredibly rare weapons/armor which could take forever to get, just to upgrade another piece of armor.