Will you bother to PVP?

I'll play pvp, although I prefer to play pve, I had fun on wow, so I hope it will be the same on ARR

PVP doesnt interest me in the slightest.... for me anyways it would be a surefire way of ending up with huge repair bills lol

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Originally Posted by Mijin

No. I'm just going by exactly what they said word for word:
I guess you're the one who didn't think your comment through after all :(

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Handling TP is going to change. In the current version the player had to fight to generate TP, but it changed to be similar to MP where you start the battle with full TP. The main reason to make it that way was due to PvP.

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One can understand that mages can already combo right of the bat because most of the time they're at full mp.


You may try to hide from the other highly possible reason of this change, but the fact is if tp gain remained the same, PvP/PvE would be completely unbalance with mages dominating the battle field in both respectively. As it is right now there is an unfair advantage.

PvP yes, please.

Let's hope it's made accessable early and they keep levels and gear separate for it. GW2 looks like they are doing it right (can PvP at lvl 2, scales everyone to 80, can customize gear immediately, separate levels from PvE).

I will PvP. Sometimes, it's good to have something like that everyone now and again.

I'm not sure about the Arena style battles that are planned for Limsa Lominsa, but the three way battles against the other Grand Companies? Definitely - particularly being able to fight as a character that I have grown attached too over the past couple of years.

Here is hoping that they are able to tie it in story wise - heck, they managed the changed monster size, so why not the Grand Companies going to battle?

Probably not. I've never really done PvP in MMO's.

PvP so hard

I was never big on PvP but depending on how its implemented I will probably give it a shot, if its more of a large scale battle or tower defense kind of deal, which it seems like it is, I may like it.

I just know there are lots of d bags I want to fight. I don't care if they win, I just want to beat them and /pray over their face once. I guess that will be our T-bagging

I see a lot of ignore-anuses thinking PvP would be healthy for a MMO like this one. It's not the be-all, end-all content for everyone.

PvP can still be in FFXIV (and I'll be all for it!)as long as it's contained and it's not focused on 100% ganking your opponent. If some you seen "Bully Beat-down" on MVT2, I'm sure none of you want to go up against someone tougher and skillful than you.

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Originally Posted by Xakery

I just know there are lots of d bags I want to fight. I don't care if they win, I just want to beat them and /pray over their face once. I guess that will be our T-bagging

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I know some D-bags I want to fight( and win) too! Then T-bag their arsh! Make them go level a job more suitable(or change servers,lol).

The thing is... I wouldn't waste time stooping down to a level of pointless competition/ challenges. If it's going to be for sport, there needs to be sport elements thrown in... and you bet your arsh I am thinking of "Ballista"!

I don't really care a lot (if at all) for PvP in MMOs. If I wanted PvP, I'd go play an FPS or LoL.

Also, I knew their addition of PvP would mess up the battle system... separate skills/systems my ass. I hate how they're planning to dumb down the system for this.

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Originally Posted by Klefth

I don't really care a lot (if at all) for PvP in MMOs. If I wanted PvP, I'd go play an FPS or LoL.

Also, I knew their addition of PvP would mess up the battle system... separate skills/systems my ass. I hate how they're planning to dumb down the system for this.

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dumb down the system? they're increasing the number of characters, and mobs you can have displayed on screen. thats just one enhancement. its hardly a dumb down in your vocabulary.

I am talking about the battle system. Sure, the possibility to display more stuff on screen is nice (and it should've been like that from the very beginning), but have you even seen the changes planned for the battle system? How is eliminating WS/Spell timers, making TP pretty much like MP, and making combos almost pointless (except maybe for "fair play" to raise the limit break gauge faster) not dumbing down the battle system? They're taking a somewhat unique system like the one we currently have and turning it into pretty much what you see in every other MMO, but with a little something added in.

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Originally Posted by PSxpert2011

I see a lot of ignore-anuses thinking PvP would be healthy for a MMO like this one. It's not the be-all, end-all content for everyone.

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Are you implying that user generated content isn't healthy for an MMO? Also, not all content is meant for everyone. That's how a theme park MMO works. That's how it worked in FFXI, and that's how it worked in WoW. Unless you dedicated a lot of time and effort into the game, you don't get to experience everything. You are not handed everything on a silver platter. Which is why there will be people who do not have a clear on Nael (hard) and Garuda come A Realm Reborn.

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PvP can still be in FFXIV (and I'll be all for it!)as long as it's contained and it's not focused on 100% ganking your opponent. If some you seen "Bully Beat-down" on MVT2, I'm sure none of you want to go up against someone tougher and skillful than you.

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It's already been confirmed that we won't be getting open world PvP. Numerous times. It wouldn't work with this game anyways.

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Originally Posted by Klefth

I am talking about the battle system. Sure, the possibility to display more stuff on screen is nice (and it should've been like that from the very beginning), but have you even seen the changes planned for the battle system? How is eliminating WS/Spell timers, making TP pretty much like MP, and making combos almost pointless (except maybe for "fair play" to raise the limit break gauge faster) not dumbing down the battle system? They're taking a somewhat unique system like the one we currently have and turning it into pretty much what you see in every other MMO, but with a little something added in.

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Care to elaborate what they're taking from other mmo battle wise? Regardless, the changes will make the battle system more balance. As it is right now Mages whether in PvP or in PvE is unbalanced. Mages can combo from the very start of the battle while facing any direction. No matter how you look at it mages have the upper hand in the current system. The limit break system is in itself unique.

My problem with pvp or any other unnecessary thing in MMO's is:

Why would I waste my playtime doing something that doesn't involve progression for my character?

Pvp wont, and should not, have any rewards that effect your characters development. As such pvping is a waste of time. I understand that some people are casual, and they just want to goof around. For me I want to make the most of my playtime to make my character better, and that's my fun.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

Care to elaborate what they're taking from other mmo battle wise? Regardless, the changes will make the battle system more balance. As it is right now Mages whether in PvP or in PvE is unbalanced. Mages can combo from the very start of the battle while facing any direction. No matter how you look at it mages have the upper hand in the current system. The limit break system is in itself unique.

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PvP does not bring balance to an MMO environment where PvE is the largest focus of the game. In fact, when it comes to your average MMORPG, PvP is what destroys the balance.

While I'm not a fan of it, nor do I play it at all, World of Warcraft is one such thing; each patch brings new tidings to each class when it comes to PvP, but never is anything in equilibrium. One class gets the nerfhammer, while another becomes OP. People cry about the OP class and it gets the nerfhammer in the next patch, while another class gets the buffhammer - It's a never-ending cycle of failure.

TERA: Another good example. Back when I still played, the two most OP classes were Slayer and Sorcerer. Sorc binds and sleeps you while going through it's cycle of nukes. By the time it's finished, you're nothing but a pile of ash on the ground. Slayer behaved similarly, constantly stun-locking you while teleporting behind your character, to make quick work of you. Also, on open-world PvP servers, any high-level can go to any low-level area and gank the lowbies with little-to-no opposition. And even if the person isn't that high level compared to people questing in the area, one or two levels makes all the difference due to the multipliers applied to stats. Someone 2 or 3 levels above you will utterly annihilate you in PvP.
Does that seem balanced? Not to me.

As far as I'm aware, FFXI is the sole exception to this rule, being that the algorithms and formulas for PvP and PvE were kept separate, due to PvP being restricted to zones designed with only PvP in mind. Then again, PvP in FFXI has never been prevalent, as there is not an ounce of progression to be had; it's also slow, and in my opinion doesn't fit with the pace of the game's battles.

I can't recall a single instance where PvP is ever truly 'balanced', nor do I care for such a feature. If I wanted to play against people and destroy them, as mentioned earlier, I'd play an FPS or a MOBA.

DAoC RvR was balanced. As each classes were faction specific, even if couple classes were bad while couple classes were "OP", in the end, across a whole faction, everything would balance out. Every faction has these little OP abilities when used properly etc.

Levels and gear seperate is silly.
Yes, there should be gear thats good for PvP and gear thats good for PvE, but why should you have to entirely level up your character again for PvP? that's just silly.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

My problem with pvp or any other unnecessary thing in MMO's is:

Why would I waste my playtime doing something that doesn't involve progression for my character?

Pvp wont, and should not, have any rewards that effect your characters development. As such pvping is a waste of time. I understand that some people are casual, and they just want to goof around. For me I want to make the most of my playtime to make my character better, and that's my fun.

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That's because your mentality is 100% anti-PvP so your sense of progression is different than that of an avid PvPer's.

PvP should effect character development, because there is nothing out there that says PvP has to affect PvE character development. A person that does PvE content does it in the end to fight harder content and so forth until they reach the end. An avid PvPer would do PvP content to progress in PvP until they are at the top where the battles require the most amount of skill to fight in. Two different types of progression, creating two different times of mentalities.

There's nothing wrong with not enjoying one or the other, however to stuff up your own as the absolute is not accomplishing anything. Some people prefer fighting a target with the most advanced AI possible (the human brain) and some people prefer fighting a target that, while it isn't as smart, it overpowers you by far so it requires extensive planning to take down. It has nothing to do with casuals wanting to goof around and fight each other.

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Originally Posted by Yucie

PvP does not bring balance to an MMO environment where PvE is the largest focus of the game.

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I'm not saying PvP brings balance, what I'm saying is that the current system is unbalance right now, and they're making adjustments for it.

Time to adapt, resistance is futile

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Originally Posted by Dawiichan

That's because your mentality is 100% anti-PvP so your sense of progression is different than that of an avid PvPer's.

PvP should effect character development, because there is nothing out there that says PvP has to affect PvE character development. A person that does PvE content does it in the end to fight harder content and so forth until they reach the end. An avid PvPer would do PvP content to progress in PvP until they are at the top where the battles require the most amount of skill to fight in. Two different types of progression, creating two different times of mentalities.

There's nothing wrong with not enjoying one or the other, however to stuff up your own as the absolute is not accomplishing anything. Some people prefer fighting a target with the most advanced AI possible (the human brain) and some people prefer fighting a target that, while it isn't as smart, it overpowers you by far so it requires extensive planning to take down. It has nothing to do with casuals wanting to goof around and fight each other.

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My point was that in order to be the best at either you have to devote all your time to one or the other.

I'll participate, as an aside. I do enjoy to play it every now and then to pass time if nothing else is going on. (Especially if I don't have the time to due any major leveling) However, it wont be my main focus.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

My point was that in order to be the best at either you have to devote all your time to one or the other.

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He is just bias, I don't hate PvP but I don't sympathy for hard core PvPers coming from other MMOs deeming it politically-correct to have PvP as the norm for player progression.

I would rather have teamwork in either PvE or PvP so credit is not individualized.

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Originally Posted by PSxpert2011

He is just bias, I don't hate PvP but I don't sympathy for hard core PvPers coming from other MMOs deeming it politically-correct to have PvP as the norm for player progression.

I would rather have teamwork in either PvE or PvP so credit is not individualized.

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While I'm obviously biased I don't think it affects the credibility of that statement.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

My point was that in order to be the best at either you have to devote all your time to one or the other.

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While I'm obviously biased I don't think it affects the credibility of that statement.

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-100% FALSE. Just stick to PvE. 'Nuff said. As long as pvp is implemented correctly it can become a huge community. I wouldn't call sitting around hitting SPACEBAR a good alternative to PvE.. which is what "crafting" is. The question everyone really needs to ask is not "will you pvp?" but "how will pvp be implimented?" which there rly isnt anything to speculate about until we see the changes, this whole topic is premature.

- Most of you probably suck at PvP anyway, leave it to those of us who know how to handle it.

Edit: My major concern is, with them releasing on PS3 platform that obviously leaves control mechanics upto gamepad, which limits keybinds, movement, etc. So idk.. this will be interesting.

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Originally Posted by Mujen

Edit: My major concern is, with them releasing on PS3 platform that obviously leaves control mechanics upto gamepad, which limits keybinds, movement, etc. So idk.. this will be interesting.

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I'm worried as well that PvP will be dumbed down because of console users. Just like most (if not all) FPS are now retarded skill wise thanks to Xbox/PS3 players. I hardly see any proper and interesting large scale PvP content coming with people playing with a controller.

A resounding no, I have no interest in PvP. I don't love Final Fantasy for the PvP.......................................................

If SE is going to implement a PvP system that works separately from the games PvE mechanics (much like FFXI), then they better be paying close attention to balance and ability mechanics, much like they didn't in FFXI. PvP in FFXI was also unnecessarily complicated to get started/join, and it turned off a lot of players.

I remember how bland Ballista/Brenner could become in FFXI due to either the entire fight being Blink/Utsusemi spamfests. Oh, and how Bluemage scared away a lot of regulars thanks to Headbutt stun-locking and how people repeatedly cried about it. How pet classes were looked down upon because their pet gave "Gate Breach," and how entire fights usually stayed as a staring match from a distance because nobody wants to be the 1st to run in and get ganged-up on and have no incentive to do so. And then you got NA & JP players who can't come up with a detailed strategy on the fly due to the language barrier. That may be due the the "sport-like" nature of Ballista though. Hit and running got old real fast.

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Originally Posted by Mujen

-100% FALSE. Just stick to PvE. 'Nuff said. As long as pvp is implemented correctly it can become a huge community. I wouldn't call sitting around hitting SPACEBAR a good alternative to PvE.. which is what "crafting" is. The question everyone really needs to ask is not "will you pvp?" but "how will pvp be implimented?" which there rly isnt anything to speculate about until we see the changes, this whole topic is premature.

- Most of you probably suck at PvP anyway, leave it to those of us who know how to handle it.

Edit: My major concern is, with them releasing on PS3 platform that obviously leaves control mechanics upto gamepad, which limits keybinds, movement, etc. So idk.. this will be interesting.

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lol

Can I get you to elaborate on how my comment was false? And don't worry I have no intention of wasting my time pvping, so I will stick to PvE. It's funny, I craft an awful lot, and I've never hit the spacebar while doing it lol. If you can't see why making gil is a good alternitive to pvping I don't know what to tell you. This thread was about who cares about them implementing PvP, so there's really nothing premature about it.

Most of us suck at PvP? Lol really? Couldn't it also be true that you just suck at PvE? I hope you're just trolling.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

lol

Can I get you to elaborate on how my comment was false? And don't worry I have no intention of wasting my time pvping, so I will stick to PvE. It's funny, I craft an aweful lot and I've never hit the spacebar while doing it lol. If you cant see why making gil is a good alternitive to pvping I don't know what to tell you. This thread was about who cares about them implementing PvP, so there's really nothing premature about it.

Most of us suck at PvP? Lol really? Couldn't it also be true that you just suck at PvE? I hope you're just trolling.

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- "Will you PvP?" = Will you participate in PvP? - "Omg no!, ruins the game, etc etc!" We haven't even seen the changes outside of the TP change and early DEMO footage.
- Yes I suck at this game's current PvE.. it's too hard, I'm not pro at animation lock and low drop rates scare me.
- Did you know that many games top PvP'rs are actually part of very far progression guilds/LS? Some games the best PvE gear helps in pvp & pvp gives them something to do. If you understand all class's abilities & limitations you do become a better player.
- Good PvP'r/Raiders are able to analyze a situation and based on their party's comp & their knowledge able to create a strategy of tackling challenge. PvE is also repetative, practice makes perfect. Fast reactions w/ good knowledge of abilities & proper macro's/keybinds significantly make things better both PvP/PvE. It can be the difference between a WHM who scrolls to find their benedicition button & a WHM who has benediciton on easily accessible macro and hits it 1-2 seconds earlier which could prevent a wipe. ALSO macros sometimes communicate faster than clicks on spells & allow multi-ability chains to be implemented.
Keybinds/Macros/Commands:
- There are many players who don't even know how to use the <st> & <lastst> command.. Say you're WAR/PLD and wish to use Collusion/Cover.. normally you'd have to find cover and click it then click on the player.. I have a macro I hit it then click the person, it announces to Party who i am covering and makes it fast & simple. You can also add /recast to macros to know when skills that might not be on Bar#1 are ready.. it's things like this that you can get away with having no knowledge of this for PvE that is pretty much basic beyond the intermediate lvl of PvPing.. "Clicker" is a term associated with most non-pvp'rs.. these players click ever skill they have.. this requires time to find said skills and click it, instead of keybind/macro'd skill.

-This is just on an introductory level but hopefully you can see where i'm coming from.

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Originally Posted by Mujen

- "Will you PvP?" = Will you participate in PvP? - "Omg no!, ruins the game, etc etc!" We haven't even seen the changes outside of the TP change and early DEMO footage.
- Yes I suck at this game's current PvE.. it's too hard, I'm not pro at animation lock and low drop rates scare me.
- Did you know that many games top PvP'rs are actually part of very far progression guilds/LS? Some games the best PvE gear helps in pvp & pvp gives them something to do. If you understand all class's abilities & limitations you do become a better player.
- Good PvP'r/Raiders are able to analyze a situation and based on their party's comp & their knowledge able to create a strategy of tackling challenge. PvE is also repetative, practice makes perfect. Fast reactions w/ good knowledge of abilities & proper macro's/keybinds significantly make things better both PvP/PvE. It can be the difference between a WHM who scrolls to find their benedicition button & a WHM who has benediciton on easily accessible macro and hits it 1-2 seconds earlier which could prevent a wipe. ALSO macros sometimes communicate faster than clicks on spells & allow multi-ability chains to be implemented.
Keybinds/Macros/Commands:
- There are many players who don't even know how to use the <st> & <lastst> command.. Say you're WAR/PLD and wish to use Collusion/Cover.. normally you'd have to find cover and click it then click on the player.. I have a macro I hit it then click the person, it announces to Party who i am covering and makes it fast & simple. You can also add /recast to macros to know when skills that might not be on Bar#1 are ready.. it's things like this that you can get away with having no knowledge of this for PvE that is pretty much basic beyond the intermediate lvl of PvPing.. "Clicker" is a term associated with most non-pvp'rs.. these players click ever skill they have.. this requires time to find said skills and click it, instead of keybind/macro'd skill.

-This is just on an introductory level but hopefully you can see where i'm coming from.

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Well I don't think people need to know the specifics of what pvp will be like in ffxiv to know if they hate pvp in general or not. In regards to top pvpers being in top pve guilds, I've never seen that, and I've played a a lot of MMO's. Unless of course your talking about mmos where pvp is the focus like Aion, then yeah. The whole thing about macros, most skilled players use macros weather they pvp or not. Hell, I even have a mouse with 12 buttons on it, but I don't see why you think only people who pvp use macros.

PvP is just as repetitive as PvE, you basically learn a strategy for fighting every class, and against top end players it's the same every time. Reaction time is just as important in PvE to be successful.

I don't really hate pvp, I actually enjoyed Aion quite a lot. However I think MMOpvp, and MMOpve are two different genres, and belong in different games. The only game I've seen pull off both is WoW, but they have an exponentially larger budget and staff than ffxiv does.

Only to piss people off.

Edit: as long as NO aspect of the PVE gameplay is changed in favor of PvP(ie: Buff/nerf of classes, changing skills) then I'm perfectly fine. Bioware literally shoved a flaming, serrated Gae Bolg up their ass when they ruined the classes attempting to do the impossible task of balancing pve/pvp.

Balancing PvE/PvP is simple: Any necessary modifications to balance PvP apply only during PvP. Thats how FFXI did it, and it works fine.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Balancing PvE/PvP is simple: Any necessary modifications to balance PvP apply only during PvP. Thats how FFXI did it, and it works fine.

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It would be possible in ffxiv too considering we wont have world pvp, but considering the way the changed tp for pvp kind of suggests they're willing to make global changes to complement pvp.

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Originally Posted by Mijin

It would be possible in ffxiv too considering we wont have world pvp, but considering the way the changed tp for pvp kind of suggests they're willing to make global changes to complement pvp.

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Thou shalt not nerf pve mechanics! e.e

So much paranoia and biased from the naysayers.

It baffles me that people don't see the unbalance mp/tp combo system we have right now.

i don't care much for pvp, but i hate this game's community with such a passion that i think i would revel in smashing their faces in on a daily basis

so