Petition to fix Miqo'te Face 2 Eyebrows

https://www.kalimbatabs.net/wp-conte...24/11/meow.jpg

Is this your technique to try and strongarm/bully SE into implementing the change you're hoping for? Keep bumping this thread endlessly every day or so until they comply?

This is the one and only time I'll ever post in here because I don't want to be the cause of it going back up to the top of the list. This is my opinion of course, and clearly there is a vocal group who oppose this opinion .. but as someone wrote not too long ago in this thread - this is a non-issue. They made a change to the race's image, you don't like that change. Understood. You made your claims, presented supporting evidence and desired outcomes, what's been said has been said.

That was a year ago.

Time to move on and let other threads take the top page because quite frankly I'm just tired of seeing this constantly bumped up to the top. SE had plenty of time to fix this if they wanted to, I'm certain they have seen this brought up and have had the opportunity to discuss a fix if they were planning to fix it.. but I'm willing to bet since it's been like this for so long they're just not going to. The decision's already been made. Sometimes you just have to move on.

Edit: (because again, I will not bump this thread ever again) - I have worked for over a decade in the gaming development industry and there is a lovely term for very low-impact bugs within titles, both before and after release, called known shippable. By definition it is qualifying a bug as being not worth development's time to fix since there are much bigger bugs to fry. The simple fact that you need to put a magnifying lense over your character to even see the minute differences being brought up here is a textbook example of a bug that falls into this category.

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Originally Posted by Appleboops

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I couldn't disagree with you more.

Do you also think that any raised concerns about story, job identity, playable content, or QoL requests should be silenced because there are inevitably people that don't care for those topics? That ANY topic of feedback that hasn't been addressed after a year is moot, and pointless?
No. Everyone has different opinions about what parts of the game are important to them, and we have every right to continue to make it known to the staff that this is still not fixed, and we still very much are not okay with it. The team responsible for fixing graphical errors is not the same team that balances combat. You are not affected by feedback that you don't care about.

The difference with things like this is that it's not just opinion; there is an actual texture map error that impacts a character feature that it makes no sense to change. This is in the realm of a bug.
There are many errors that have been in the game for 1+ year now that have yet to be fixed, that doesn't mean that they are intentional or preferred.

We will continue to ask for better quality for a subject that is important to us.
Here's hoping that there's a fix in 7.4, so that we can all be happy!

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Originally Posted by Tahli

I couldn't disagree with you more.

Do you also think that any raised concerns about story, job identity, playable content, or QoL requests should be silenced because there are inevitably people that don't care for those topics? That ANY topic of feedback that hasn't been addressed after a year is moot, and pointless?
No. Everyone has different opinions about what parts of the game are important to them, and we have every right to continue to make it known to the staff that this is still not fixed, and we still very much are not okay with it. The team responsible for fixing graphical errors is not the same team that balances combat. You are not affected by feedback that you don't care about.

The difference with things like this is that it's not just opinion; there is an actual texture map error that impacts a character feature that it makes no sense to change. This is in the realm of a bug.
There are many errors that have been in the game for 1+ year now that have yet to be fixed, that doesn't mean that they are intentional or preferred.

We will continue to ask for better quality for a subject that is important to us.
Here's hoping that there's a fix in 7.4, so that we can all be happy!

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https://media.tenor.com/uLZcDhQLcFcA...n-the-back.png

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Originally Posted by Appleboops

Is this your technique to try and strongarm/bully SE into implementing the change you're hoping for? Keep bumping this thread endlessly every day or so until they comply?

This is the one and only time I'll ever post in here because I don't want to be the cause of it going back up to the top of the list. This is my opinion of course, and clearly there is a vocal group who oppose this opinion .. but as someone wrote not too long ago in this thread - this is a non-issue. They made a change to the race's image, you don't like that change. Understood. You made your claims, presented supporting evidence and desired outcomes, what's been said has been said.

That was a year ago.

Time to move on and let other threads take the top page because quite frankly I'm just tired of seeing this constantly bumped up to the top. SE had plenty of time to fix this if they wanted to, I'm certain they have seen this brought up and have had the opportunity to discuss a fix if they were planning to fix it.. but I'm willing to bet since it's been like this for so long they're just not going to. The decision's already been made. Sometimes you just have to move on.

Edit: (because again, I will not bump this thread ever again) - I have worked for over a decade in the gaming development industry and there is a lovely term for very low-impact bugs within titles, both before and after release, called known shippable. By definition it is qualifying a bug as being not worth development's time to fix since there are much bigger bugs to fry. The simple fact that you need to put a magnifying lense over your character to even see the minute differences being brought up here is a textbook example of a bug that falls into this category.

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Trying to construe this change as a change of identity or visuals is disingenuous for two reasons:

- The producer specifically promised they'd try to keep it as close as possible to the originals.
- More importantly, this isn't about visual style, this is a texture UV map that's been fucked up as evidenced by how stretched the diffuse texture is as a result comparatively to what it used to be (it's squished, it's bad). If anything, I'd qualify this as a glitch (which has been already reported btw).

( I've also worked for years in the game industry development, specifically in the 3D art side, and this is salvageable in less than a couple of hours by one person especially since it was still not glitched in the benchmark before release btw, but let me guess, you worked on the producing side right? )


Edit: if SE isn't happy about that thread constantly coming back up, they can either 1) fix the issue or 2) make themselves know here and lock the topic.

Okay, so I was absolutely in support of remapping the eyebrows multiple patches ago, but what about us that have gotten used to or even attached to the razor brow look that this thread reviles, now? Who takes precedent? Current players that love their avatar and new players that join, or the people in this thread that hate sharp eyebrows?

This is my favorite Miqo'te face pre-Dawntrail, and I swapped to it again and finally don't want to change my WoL despite being a Fantasia addict.

So. I'm just out? The fact that the gremlin-like >:] smile has developed into a personality that fits me and at this point I realize I might be upset if 7.4 or beyond suddenly softens the brows completely as desired by those in support of it. That won't be my Lorna

Also MALE Miqo'te consistently have the same type of brow shapes across all of their faces. The pointed, thin brows have become a consistent racial trait, and face 2 of the girls now consistently matches the males in that regard.

At this point. I want dev time put into expanding gear with two dye channels and improving textures, not changing 3 pixels again and again and again because the graphical update changed the graphics on faces.

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Originally Posted by Appleboops

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This is clearly an error and it is being marked as "working as intended" when it clearly isn't. It also is a fix which takes about 1 minute to fix, as demonstrated by a video referenced earlier which shows exactly what is needed to fix it. Meanwhile other races have had adjustments significantly smaller than this one done and had their threads marked correctly (as *bugs*).

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

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I'm sorry, but I don't agree with leaving a face-altering bug in the game just because some people could get used to it, especially since there are many people who greatly dislike it. I also believe they should stick to their promise of being an accurate update without changing the original impression of 10+ years.

Genuinely, they look the least functional right now than any other iteration they've gone through (Pre-DT, Benchmark 1), so if you can somehow get used to that, I really don't think you'd have trouble getting used to them again if they actually looked the way they should. The bug never should have been ingame to begin with. I can't speak for male Miqo'te since I don't play one, but there's a big difference in a face's options that have always looked similar to eachother vs ones that used to have MUCH clearer variety but changed after DT.

If they were changed to be shaped more like their original version, and you like a sharper, angrier look, I'd suggest trying Eyebrow option 1. Those were originally the "angrier" brows that more than filled that niche without overwriting all other options' shapes.

If it came to it and you still want something choppier, I'd support you in asking for it as an additional option, since they've strongly hinted at working to expand the character creator in the future.

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Originally Posted by Tahli

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But it ISN'T bugged, thinking they look unattractive isn't a BUG, it's an opinion. This whole graphical update debate is a bunch of players voicing their opinions.

Since Yoshi-P is now considering adding options to the creator as the update allows for more layering and a bigger selection of options, we should be asking for *additional* softer brow options. Then players that like the current look, like me, aren't screwed over, too. Can't we have both?

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

Okay, so I was absolutely in support of remapping the eyebrows multiple patches ago, but what about us that have gotten used to or even attached to the razor brow look that this thread reviles, now? Who takes precedent? Current players that love their avatar and new players that join, or the people in this thread that hate sharp eyebrows?

This is my favorite Miqo'te face pre-Dawntrail, and I swapped to it again and finally don't want to change my WoL despite being a Fantasia addict.

So. I'm just out? The fact that the gremlin-like >:] smile has developed into a personality that fits me and at this point I realize I might be upset if 7.4 or beyond suddenly softens the brows completely as desired by those in support of it. That won't be my Lorna

Also MALE Miqo'te consistently have the same type of brow shapes across all of their faces. The pointed, thin brows have become a consistent racial trait, and face 2 of the girls now consistently matches the males in that regard.

At this point. I want dev time put into expanding gear with two dye channels and improving textures, not changing 3 pixels again and again and again because the graphical update changed the graphics on faces.

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Easy to say when you're the one privileged. It's always the same discourse with job changes as well. Every time we have the people benefiting trying to swap the victim card around.
This isn't even an art change, this is a fucked UVW texture map... Like for real, are we also gonna complain when the devs hotfix something after it gets broken by a patch just because we "got attached to the glitch"?

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

But it ISN'T bugged, thinking they look unattractive isn't a BUG, it's an opinion. This whole graphical update debate is a bunch of players voicing their opinions.

Since Yoshi-P is now considering adding options to the creator as the update allows for more layering and a bigger selection of options, we should be asking for *additional* softer brow options. Then players that like the current look, like me, aren't screwed over, too. Can't we have both?

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This is the kind of stuff we're dealing with here - it's been like this since EW released. Here it's deformed, stretched on the left of the motif, and squished on the right of it. It's sloppy.
But I'm not complaining or making reports over this because I frankly couldn't care less, it doesn't stand right in my face every time I stroll through Old Sharlayan, unlike my character in cutscenes.

https://i.imgur.com/POibPfq.png

Same thing with those eyebrow textures, they're not only squished horizontally so that all of their details get lost, but they're also stretched vertically. Probably because the artists moved the mesh beneath slightly and forgot to adjust UVs.

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Originally Posted by Valence

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I was in favor until I started playing one. That's the difference. I see her emote and move and instead of being weirded out like everyone insist I should be, I find her charming and fun and full of personality, mischievous. Between her sharp, surime eyes and fangs, she has the best facial sculpt I could ask for.

So no, I DON'T want it changed, but I wholly sympathize that it totally is different from the look from 6.55 and earlier and that it sucks BAD that the old look was deleted. But, just as selfishly as those that demand the sculpt be changed, I don't want my current avatar changed because of aesthetic opinions.

There's no way to make everyone happy outside of just adding more options. That's it. Keep what we have, add what was lost.

I'm sorry but you can't claim precedence over this, and even less so over a glitch, and it's frankly crummy to boot. You were even pointed at older options that had that sharp shape, all miqo'te faces have it. If they have to adjust one of the older eyebrows to have that shape (there was already one anyway, I believe old option 3 for the thin, sharper one), then so be it and everybody is happy. Heck if they did this they'd actually also fix the texture so your sharp eyebrow shape would also actually regain its hairy details as well.

My WoL finally clicked into place after trying this face out multiple times over the years I've played FFXIV, and only after the eyes, nose, lips, brows, stripes, and textures implemented in Dawntrail did that happen. I'm not going to feel bad for enjoying myself and being upset I am is strange.

I still want to encourage the devs to add more options to give everyone here what they want, because that's what we deserve.

I would like to start this off by saying that i stopped subbing because i am completely unhappy with this and do not wish to continue playing the game when my character is not the one i started with. But some of the things said here recently missed the mark so much that i felt forced to respond too.

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Originally Posted by DaKitten

I dont see a difference ... this is a non-issue.

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There's a whole thread talking about this on a variety of different races which have been patched. Some are still missing and this thread is the result of the missing ones.
If you don't see a difference maybe actually check all the clear-cut evidence in this thread?

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Originally Posted by Appleboops

Is this your technique to try and strongarm/bully SE into implementing the change you're hoping for? Keep bumping this thread endlessly every day or so until they comply?

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We aren't asking to "implement a change." We are asking to fix a bug. Your very specific wording to minimalize our issue throughout your post with such language has been duly noted though.

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this is a non-issue.

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People are invested in these issues and there's been countless threads throughout all the forums about these small bugs that occured. And only some of them have been fixed. But they were all non-issues? The exact same bugs happening on other peoples face were important but this one isn't? I don't see that logic at all, i apologize.

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They made a change to the race's image

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They experienced a bug while updating which has been pushed back for other things. And it wasn't said early enough to be in the small wave of facial fixes. Sorry, had to clarify again since you deliberately used "change" again.

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you don't like that change.

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Bug.

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Time to move on and let other threads take the top page because quite frankly I'm just tired of seeing this constantly bumped up to the top.

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It's a bug and we are bumping a bug. I am also tired of having my characters look bugged. Which has more weight?

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I'm certain they have seen this brought up ... Sometimes you just have to move on.

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Tried, as you can see from my avatar, but can't. My character is dear to me, and i love the game, but cannot enjoy it. Feels more like an imposter is acting as my character than it being my character.

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The simple fact that you need to put a magnifying lense over your character to even see the minute differences being brought up here is a textbook example of a bug that falls into this category.

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Others in the same category have been fixed. Races that are much less played and had much less people mentioning them. This was the wave of fixes in the beginning and we were unlucky to not have someone mention Miqo in that time. There are more such small bugs being fixed continuously. We just actually don't know if they still know about it. Hence the bumping.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

But it ISN'T bugged, thinking they look unattractive isn't a BUG, it's an opinion. This whole graphical update debate is a bunch of players voicing their opinions.

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It really, really, truly is a bug. This has been dissected in many unspeakable ways and it really is bugged. The eyebrows are squished together for some odd reason. This is a mapping error that can be remedied very quickly. A skilled dev could do this within minutes.

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Originally Posted by RedLolly

My WoL finally clicked into place after trying this face out multiple times over the years I've played FFXIV, and only after the eyes, nose, lips, brows, stripes, and textures implemented in Dawntrail did that happen. I'm not going to feel bad for enjoying myself and being upset I am is strange.

I still want to encourage the devs to add more options to give everyone here what they want, because that's what we deserve.

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I am all for you having your preferred face. But how is it then fair that i played since ARR, with my characters face, and it now being bugged? Why do i have to live with it even though it's been my character with this exact face for a decade when you fantasiad into it recently?
I am genuinely not trying to downplay you, i also agree there should be more options. But this is an actual, genuine bug. This has been proven by multiple ways.

Absolutely i am for you having fun and enjoying the game. But it shouldn't rob me of this fun and enjoyment either, should it?
I would also like to add that two of the five look already similar unbugged, just that their emotes actually all work correct. Which is possibly cause for this being marked as low priority.

IMPORTANT NOTE!!!

Under "Resolved Issues" at the bottom of the patch notes, reads this:

https://i.postimg.cc/W13PJz6F/Untitled.png


I'll wait until I see what they look like ingame after the patch of course, but..! :eek:

I threw together this quick picture of how all the new eyebrows look in 7.4. I expect there will be a much better example posted later so this is just if anyone is curious and unable to log in yet.

Ordered 1-5, I can't notice any significant changes at a tired glance but I'll let everyone affected be the judge.

https://lds-img.finalfantasyxiv.com/...d6f310e400.png

I notice some changes on my character, but it is still a far shot from what it is supposed to be.

https://i.imgur.com/f41FuBW.png

Not sure why they didn't fix it all the way. They made it an actual eyebrow, but the curve is still missing on those that had it.

Those changes from your image @Metool42 look good no? I can see clearly that eyebrows now go straight and she looks more "angry" style than before. Is this how it's supposed to look or needs more work? I'd say this looks nice. Just let's hope they change other things as well such as infamous Hyur eye bags on face 1...

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Originally Posted by MayuAmakura

Those changes from your image @Metool42 look good no? I can see clearly that eyebrows now go straight and she looks more "angry" style than before. Is this how it's supposed to look or needs more work? I'd say this looks nice. Just let's hope they change other things as well such as infamous Hyur eye bags on face 1...

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Sadly no. We want the 6.58 version back The angry eyebrows are the bugged version. It was still working in the very first Dawntrail Benchmark, but after that it got bugged and we got something akin to the 7.4 one. They fixed parts of it, as in the inner parts are now thicker and closer to the original, but it is still not curved as it should be.
I am trying desperately to get them to fix the curve so my character doesn't permanently look annoyed anymore.

It's better. Before it was literally just a drawn-on line which looked utterly ridiculous, now at least it looks like an eyebrow. But the curve to just make her the friendly goober she was before is still missing and that makes me incredibly sad.

There's quite a few still having issues with DT changes and it's honestly just kind of ridiculous at this point. They might be working on something else entirely, sure, but SOME transparency would be nice. ANY. I wouldn't mind stepping back and chilling out if they'd at least say they've heard all these issues and they'll fix them in the future. But nothing.

Okay! So here's another image showing the 7.4 eyebrows (Thank you lunartears for sharing that earlier today as well).

https://i.postimg.cc/xnnT9LFq/Timeline-1-0003.png


Here are also the previous versions for you to tab back and forth to compare:

6.58
https://i.postimg.cc/CSSLwb60/Timeline-1-0000.png

Benchmark 1.0
https://i.postimg.cc/c004df5H/Timeline-1-0001.png

Most of Dawntrail up to 7.3
https://i.postimg.cc/WTTbs0fz/Timeline-1-0002.png


The situation with these eyebrows has always been twofold:
1. Since the first updated graphics of DT Benchmark 1.0, these brows have been shorter, and very straight, no longer having a downward curving taper.
2. Since DT Benchmark 1.1 and onward, a bug had compressed the brows thin, making them lose their squared inner corner and becoming very dense.

What they changed in this 7.4 update was point #2, and the shape is now essentially the same as it was back in Benchmark 1.0.

It's true that point #1 remains the same.

SO, my Miqo'usins... What do we think? How do we feel?



For my own opinion:
While I would also like for the longer, curved shape to return, I at least think this is an improvement. The inner half of the brow has a shape again, the color is a touch lighter, the texture of the hairs has been made clear again.

We're back to Benchmark 1.0. Half the work is done I guess.

Sadly this didn't at all fix the half that was so important to me. I'm just perplexed how this is such an easy thing to fix yet they just did not care to do this. Some dude on YT did it within minutes.

Bump. Because the issue persists and was not properly addressed by the devs.

they should just add more eyebrows to all races.

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Originally Posted by Avenheit

they should just add more eyebrows to all races.

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I very heartily agree!

I just noticed this too!! And I'm happy about it! as Valence said, half the work is done! So let's keep hoping

Just popping in here to say that I am so happy there has been a change for you guys! I hope that they will restore the eyebrows to their original, pre-DT shapes, but it is great to see that they were aware this was an issue and at least reverted it to the Benchmark version :)

It makes me hopeful that these forum threads are being acknowledged and that we'll also see changes to Thancred's face in the future based on our feedback!

Hoping that you will get your full fix in due course <3

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Originally Posted by Turethir

Just popping in here to say that I am so happy there has been a change for you guys! I hope that they will restore the eyebrows to their original, pre-DT shapes, but it is great to see that they were aware this was an issue and at least reverted it to the Benchmark version :)

It makes me hopeful that these forum threads are being acknowledged and that we'll also see changes to Thancred's face in the future based on our feedback!

Hoping that you will get your full fix in due course <3

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Thank you very much, Turethir! One step at a time. Really hoping Thancred will have his face restored, too!

holiday bump because of sadness

Thanks for the images, now I can clearly see the difference. Yeah that definitely need much bigger fixing. I really hope they do because a lot of things still haven't been fixed. Including Hyur 1 eye bags (they did a slight one which isn't enough) and more.

If other races have similar issues, I'd suggest making their own dedicated threads that people would push up regularly instead of getting them drowned into a gigathread of hundred pages.

Here's an updated comparison of old, current, and suggested edit of the brows!

https://i.postimg.cc/cxsRvV69/Eyebrow-Edit-Please.gif

They are closer than before. Now if they could just... pull down that outer tip and soften the taper.

I've also edited the first post of the petition to reflect recent changes.

Sure would love for them to take 5 minutes to fix the rest of it.

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Originally Posted by Tahli

Here's an updated comparison of old, current, and suggested edit of the brows!

https://i.postimg.cc/cxsRvV69/Eyebrow-Edit-Please.gif

They are closer than before. Now if they could just... pull down that outer tip and soften the taper.

I've also edited the first post of the petition to reflect recent changes.

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Love this edit. Would prob switch to this face if they did that.

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Originally Posted by Rikizza

Love this edit. Would prob switch to this face if they did that.

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Thank you!! I would be overjoyed beyond belief if they could just do that. :)

Push, for whatever it's worth.