Would you be opposed to SE implementing a program to scan for addons/parsers?

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Today I learned me being colourblind and needing shaders for this game means I'm secretly cheating to get an advantage over any raider!

And yet I still didn't clear P3S 'cause I suck!
https://i.imgur.com/NP96Rri.png

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Lie I just saw your lodestone you never did P1S...

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Today I learned me being colourblind and needing shaders for this game means I'm secretly cheating to get an advantage over any raider!

And yet I still didn't clear P3S 'cause I suck!
https://i.imgur.com/NP96Rri.png

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Guess I should inform a friend of mine she's a dirty, filthy cheater because she used triggers for E10S' shadow gimmick. We'll just ignore she is legally blind in her left eye and couldn't actually see the black shadow connecting to a black shadow monster. You can probably imagine how much fun P3S was for her.

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Originally Posted by Oldschoolegamer38

Lie I just saw your lodestone you never did P1S...

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You know you have a fflogs link in your bio right?

Basically admitting to cheating right there https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...6/IMG_4964.png

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Originally Posted by Ivtrix

You know you have a fflogs link in your bio right?

Basically admitting to cheating right there https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...6/IMG_4964.png

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OMEGA LOL. Holy crap, man, good find LOL

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Originally Posted by Anger

In light of the recent TOP issue and concerns surrounding the legitimacy of their clear - would you be opposed to anticheat software scanning your system for addons/parsers/plugins?

This would help enforce the total and categorical ban on any third party programs used.

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Yes I would because I don't need some intrusive malware on my system because people care too much about pointless world first runs. Just let people be. Their clears have no bearing at all on your progression of end game.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Killing ACT will kill the raid community. Killing textools and similar things will kill the lion's share of the RP community, and it will take a sizeable chunk out of the general playerbase as well. There are plenty of hills out there to die on, but anti-mod sentiment is not one of them. They are the reason the game has lasted as long as it has, and eliminating them will not do it any favors.

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I just wish that FFXIV was good enough for people. I know we're not the best MMO and that WoW has more raids, features, etc. than we do. I know that this is only a side game for most people in between breaks for their main game. I know we don't deserve much and Square Enix is a struggling company.

But...for a brief period of time, people actually had faith in FFXIV. They didn't scoff at our lack of features, or trivialize our hardest content. They didn't trash the art style and replace it with imported abominations from Second Life. They enjoyed the game for what it was. They had fun. And some people on consoles still have fun! But that group is getting smaller as PC players get louder and more numerous. PC players seem like they hate large parts of the game, since they replace everything with third-party solutions. Are they really enjoying FFXIV, or are they enjoying what someone else made in Blender?

Maybe someday Square Enix will realize what made FFXIV good in 2013-2020, and rekindle that magic for the next MMO. But for now, I guess FFXIV is past its prime. Maybe the rest of us should put our time in a game that's actually respected.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

WoW has more raids, features

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Maybe in a 'current' expansion, but although it might not be everyone's cup of tea depending on what it is, XIV usually keeps features from old expansions relevant all the time. I'm not playing anymore so maybe that is changed in Dragonflight, but afaik WoW used to discontinue every previous expansion's features as soon as it was over.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

Maybe in a 'current' expansion, but although it might not be everyone's cup of tea depending on what it is, XIV usually keeps features from old expansions relevant all the time. I'm not playing anymore so maybe that is changed in Dragonflight, but afaik WoW used to discontinue every previous expansion's features as soon as it was over.

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Uhh... I'm not sure what you mean, but most of WoW's raids were always available for people to go back to. WoW just doesn't have level sync, and AFAIK before the Cataclysm revamp of the world, the only raid that was actually removed was Naxx (which got readded in WotLK anyways).

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Uhh... I'm not sure what you mean, but most of WoW's raids were always available for people to go back to. WoW just doesn't have level sync, and AFAIK before the Cataclysm revamp of the world, the only raid that was actually removed was Naxx (which got readded in WotLK anyways).

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I think they mean the 'expansion gimmick' style content being removed. Legendary weapon grind is something recent like that I heard? Where for an expansion every class had same weapon and had basically to grind to empower that and in next expansion whole feature was pertty much gone. I imagine unless Blizaard changes their course, whatever expansion gimmick there is this time will only exist for this expansion and never again. FF14 does have some 'left behind' features that didnt get updates in expansions that followed (or did but sparingly) but doesnt truly remove them ever, and you can always just go back and do that. I think some pvp content for that regard is the only exception.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

I just wish that FFXIV was good enough for people. I know we're not the best MMO and that WoW has more raids, features, etc. than we do. I know that this is only a side game for most people in between breaks for their main game. I know we don't deserve much and Square Enix is a struggling company.

But...for a brief period of time, people actually had faith in FFXIV. They didn't scoff at our lack of features, or trivialize our hardest content. They didn't trash the art style and replace it with imported abominations from Second Life. They enjoyed the game for what it was. They had fun. And some people on consoles still have fun! But that group is getting smaller as PC players get louder and more numerous. PC players seem like they hate large parts of the game, since they replace everything with third-party solutions. Are they really enjoying FFXIV, or are they enjoying what someone else made in Blender?

Maybe someday Square Enix will realize what made FFXIV good in 2013-2020, and rekindle that magic for the next MMO. But for now, I guess FFXIV is past its prime. Maybe the rest of us should put our time in a game that's actually respected.

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Parsing has been a thing in the game since at least ARR, and people have been making cosmetic modifications to it for just as long. The PC players have always outnumbered the console players, and they've pretty much always been the loudest demographic to boot.

As for trivializing content, I feel you are overestimating the kind of edge players can get from those tools. The most egregious of them is Cactbot, and even it can only give you warnings. None of them will play the game for you. I do not personally use or approve of Cactbot, but I'm well aware of how prevalent it is - and how often the people using it still suck even with it. Personal skill still matters, whether you're getting warnings from Cactbot or zooming your camera out to the point of absurdity with whatever that JP raid team was using.

The above aside, I do tend to agree with you in the hope SE eventually remembers what FFXIV's golden age looked like. Unfortunately, I fear they are going to judge what people want purely by subscriber count rather than taking an objective look at the systems, cosmetics, and whatever else people had the most positive feedback about.

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Originally Posted by Heroman3003

I think they mean the 'expansion gimmick' style content being removed. Legendary weapon grind is something recent like that I heard? Where for an expansion every class had same weapon and had basically to grind to empower that and in next expansion whole feature was pertty much gone. I imagine unless Blizaard changes their course, whatever expansion gimmick there is this time will only exist for this expansion and never again. FF14 does have some 'left behind' features that didnt get updates in expansions that followed (or did but sparingly) but doesnt truly remove them ever, and you can always just go back and do that. I think some pvp content for that regard is the only exception.

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Oh that's fair if true. I never bothered to go back to old zones to check if the special gear grinding stuff was still active.

There are some 3rd party programs that actually improve features that people have asked for for years
Like a motion sickness camera & settings add-on that isn't even in the game.
There are some in-game work arounds but they hardly help.

I do not want an anti-cheat rootkit digging around my PC.

A good way to keep people from cheating is just punish them- take away their rewards & prestige when caught & enact perma bans.

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Originally Posted by HeyMcFly

I do not want an anti-cheat rootkit digging around my PC.

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EAC will sit there and run in the background even when the game it's associated with isn't on. There's no telling what all that thing is actually looking for. Most other anti-cheats are much the same. No matter what type of anti-cheat they opted for, I'd definitely be peacing out the second it got announced.

Ok, so let's break this down, you can only use mods if your on pc master race, I'm a console peasent so I can't use them, even If I wanted to use the harmless mods you describe, or if I was colour blind, can't use mods on console unless it's implemented by square.
Second, all mods are banned, no excuses, no exceptions, look at the last statement from yoshida.
So in admitting you use any kind of mod, independent of circumstances you are breaking the rules and should be banned.
Remember you are paying for a service and agreed to the TOS, you have no rights.
Third get down from your high horse pc master race, stop using banned tools ( all of them are banned ) and start flooding the forums with your requests.
Learn Japanese and go to that part of the forum and make your request there to gain more momentum.
I honestly wish that everyone that uses mods was banned at the same time. If there was noone left to play besides console players , that would still be fine with me.

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Originally Posted by solimiano

Text wall

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Shhh. Nobody tell them third-party tools exist for console players as well.

Let me rephrase, ps5 peasent, not hackable ps4... There's still mods???

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Originally Posted by solimiano

Let me rephrase, ps5 peasent, not hackable ps4... There's still mods???

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Yes, there are in fact ways to make use of third-party tools from a PS5. You would be correct were you to assume the practice is less common on consoles, however. One has to jump through a few extra hoops to get it done.

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Originally Posted by Oldschoolegamer38

I don't buy that child.....

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I'm far and away from being a child, sir. I haven't been a child for 20+ years. I'd like to say that I'm older than you based on what I've seen, but age =/= maturity, sadly.

I'm tellin' ya'll,
You keep on pushing the devs buttons and it's gonna happen.
The moment they do that this games going to hell instantly lmao.

Like I stated before, not something I'm interested in, in fact Sony should partner with square and block that shit, and ban anyone using it from PSN as well.
You want a feature request if from the Devs, dont get what you want tough luck, maybe go play something else

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Originally Posted by Jybril

I'm tellin' ya'll,
You keep on pushing the devs buttons and it's gonna happen.
The moment they do that this games going to hell instantly lmao.

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Bring it, ban everyone using mods, apparently now on console as well, the game will still be fine. Play the game as it is intended, not with mods.
Want to play with mods, go play something else.
You need a qol feature request it every day on the forums, email the Devs, go through the propper channels. Using mods is not the way to do it

Absolutely laughable, considering YoshiP has even said there are gray areas when it comes to mods.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Absolutely laughable, considering YoshiP has even said there are gray areas when it comes to mods.

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There are no grey areas on the forums. Only black and white. It reminds me of the mother from the movie Water Boy calling everything the "devil".

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Oh that's fair if true. I never bothered to go back to old zones to check if the special gear grinding stuff was still active.

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That's what I meant, but also XIV's level sync + roulettes gives old dungeons/raids much more relevance than the Timewalking feature of WoW.

Also we can think about big 'side features' that aren't discontinued. Old Deep Dungeons, Exploratory zones, previous Map hunts - they are all still relevant to this day even after you completed them, because of rewards or something lucrative to farm.

Still on side activities, I remember that during Pandaria, we got that cooking place with several reputations, etc, that I genuinely thought it would become the "cooking hub" going forward, and it was forgotten after the expansion. We got the amazing Class Halls and its side activities and stories... again to be forgotten. As a mage player, I was suprised how the class hub, allegedly housing the best and strongest of the kind, never got involved with anything after Legion.

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Originally Posted by solimiano

Bring it, ban everyone using mods, apparently now on console as well, the game will still be fine. Play the game as it is intended, not with mods.
Want to play with mods, go play something else.
You need a qol feature request it every day on the forums, email the Devs, go through the propper channels. Using mods is not the way to do it

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Do you fully comprehend the number of players currently employing third-party tools? Let's assume they do all get banned. You know what happens? FFXIV stops being lucrative because they will have just shot most of their cash cows in the head. This would legitimately kill the game faster than just about anything else. It won't just be this game that goes under, either - it will hit Square-Enix hard.

SE has already been having a bit of a rough time of it lately courtesy of a number of factors, not the least of which being multiple mediocre releases and their own shady business practices. Having FFXIV's influx of cash kicked out from under them would be a crippling blow to the entire company. I don't think for a minute it would be enough to put SE under fully, but it would definitely hurt them. They're already cutting a lot of corners in their games, and this would force them to cut even more. It's a spiral most gaming companies never recover from. They were only saved from it back in the 80s by the original Final Fantasy, which was named final because they very much expected it to be their last release before the company, then just Square (or SquareSoft, in the US), went under.

tl;dr: If SE gets rid of everyone using third-party tools and/or mods, they will probably deal irreparable harm to their own company.

Too brutal method with bunch of side annoyances, and the modders will find a way around by the afternoon if it's implemented in morning.
It's nothing useful, there is better places to put that energy into than trying to put together some anti-cheat.
With love, Console player #12345.

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Originally Posted by solimiano

Bring it, ban everyone using mods, apparently now on console as well, the game will still be fine. Play the game as it is intended, not with mods.
Want to play with mods, go play something else.
You need a qol feature request it every day on the forums, email the Devs, go through the propper channels. Using mods is not the way to do it

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If they find a way to detect and ban mods, they will have to do the same with ACT and thus killing fflogs. Can you imagine the number of people stopping to play XIV just because of it?... The game will probably be fine, like you said, but I don't see that financial bleed overlooked.

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Originally Posted by solimiano

Like I stated before, not something I'm interested in, in fact Sony should partner with square and block that shit, and ban anyone using it from PSN as well.
You want a feature request if from the Devs, dont get what you want tough luck, maybe go play something else

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A good chunk of people using mods are super casual players who use mostly graphical mods... Pissing off the casual player base is basically saying you don't want your game active anymore.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

If they find a way to detect and ban mods, they will have to do the same with ACT and thus killing fflogs. Can you imagine the number of people stopping to play XIV just because of it?... The game will probably be fine, like you said, but I don't see that financial bleed overlooked.

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You'd just lose people for a short time till someone finds a work around (which usually happens).

The Mobile Games division is hard carrying Sqenix right now but that bleed would make corporate less likely to approve stuff that people want that would cost money like more servers, voice acting, and stuff that's more experimental.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

A good chunk of people using mods are super casual players who use mostly graphical mods... Pissing off the casual player base is basically saying you don't want your game active anymore.

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This for sure. People assume that most of the mod usage is parsing and stuff. But you have a lot more people using the really good QoL mods, graphical mods, and even language packs that would be affected by this.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Do you fully comprehend the number of players currently employing third-party tools? Let's assume they do all get banned. You know what happens? FFXIV stops being lucrative because they will have just shot most of their cash cows in the head. This would legitimately kill the game faster than just about anything else. It won't just be this game that goes under, either - it will hit Square-Enix hard.

SE has already been having a bit of a rough time of it lately courtesy of a number of factors, not the least of which being multiple mediocre releases and their own shady business practices. Having FFXIV's influx of cash kicked out from under them would be a crippling blow to the entire company. I don't think for a minute it would be enough to put SE under fully, but it would definitely hurt them. They're already cutting a lot of corners in their games, and this would force them to cut even more. It's a spiral most gaming companies never recover from. They were only saved from it back in the 80s by the original Final Fantasy, which was named final because they very much expected it to be their last release before the company, then just Square (or SquareSoft, in the US), went under.

tl;dr: If SE gets rid of everyone using third-party tools and/or mods, they will probably deal irreparable harm to their own company.

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Not to take sides too hard here, but regardless of how many people use mods, I genuinely think you're severely overestimating amount of people who would be willing to permanently quit the game over the blockage. In fact, Id say among those who use them, only superminority actually has their enjoyment of the game RELY on the mods, rather than just being enhanced by them. An annoyingly loud minority, but a minority nevertheless.

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Originally Posted by Heroman3003

Not to take sides too hard here, but regardless of how many people use mods, I genuinely think you're severely overestimating amount of people who would be willing to permanently quit the game over the blockage. In fact, Id say among those who use them, only superminority actually has their enjoyment of the game RELY on the mods, rather than just being enhanced by them. An annoyingly loud minority, but a minority nevertheless.

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Reread what the person I am responding to said. They were calling for a blanket ban of everyone using mods, as in players being permanently removed from the game by Square-Enix. No mention was made of anyone quitting.

I do think you're gravely underestimating the number of people that would quit if mods were somehow defeated, however. Would it be a majority? No, but it would be enough to make the game a good bit less lucrative than it is. ...And considering FFXIV and the mobile games are about the only things keeping SE alive right now, that probably isn't in their best interest.

I would encourage everyone who is in support of them adding an anti-cheat to look up Denuvo, which is the anti-cheat and anti-tamper software Square has used for most of its other titles. Denuvo has a number of claims against them for causing performance issues with games. It has been reported to cause excessive writing operations which can significantly reduce the lifespan of SSDs and also to have incredibly high CPU usage.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Reread what the person I am responding to said. They were calling for a blanket ban of everyone using mods, as in players being permanently removed from the game by Square-Enix. No mention was made of anyone quitting.

I do think you're gravely underestimating the number of people that would quit if mods were somehow defeated, however. Would it be a majority? No, but it would be enough to make the game a good bit less lucrative than it is. ...And considering FFXIV and the mobile games are about the only things keeping SE alive right now, that probably isn't in their best interest.

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And unlike them I am realistic in my entertaining of the possibility that the blockage happens. There will almost certainly be advance warning of it, system itself most likely will just block usage of existing mods rather than be about punishing players for using them and those that manage to modify the game anyway will be treated no different than they are now - innocent until proven guilty. And even there, it will probably go down the usual rung of starting with lightest punishments like warnings.

Thing is, people in this thread doomsay a lot about 'if mods are blocked SO MANY people will quit the game' and I cant help but think of how far up in the clouds the heads of those that think that that many people will actually quit the game over it must be.

And all the talks of intrusive anti-cheats are silly as well. SE's game is bare naked in terms of most basic protection. They can make game much more anti-mod by just upping the security of the game without need to scan systems of users for other programs and files. But it'd be a giant undertaking of fundamental level of the spaghetti and sticks the game is built on, which is the true main reason thats so unlikely to happen.

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Originally Posted by Heroman3003

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You and your reasonable reply!

I like to think of it this way, without a system to combat mods, SE *has* to be all or nothing.

If they ever decide to implement a system to combat problematic mods this will allow SE the flexibility to officially allow mods they feel that contribute to the game in a positive way.

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Originally Posted by Heroman3003

Not to take sides too hard here, but regardless of how many people use mods, I genuinely think you're severely overestimating amount of people who would be willing to permanently quit the game over the blockage. In fact, Id say among those who use them, only superminority actually has their enjoyment of the game RELY on the mods, rather than just being enhanced by them. An annoyingly loud minority, but a minority nevertheless.

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I'd say easily 1 out of every 3 players is using some kind of mod/plugin whether it be data type stuff or graphical. I know the RP community religiously uses bubble chat addons and they are a extremely large population of players in this game.

Anyone notice that only players already using mods are pro mod, according to the latest statement you should be punished period, no grey areas, no mod whatsoever is allowed, go back and read the last statement from yoshi, he does not allow any mods.
It's a shame we cannot use this thread to start banning the people already using mods.
And if square stops doing shitty mobile titles and concentrates more on xiv, even better.
If the game has to go under to stop all the mods, so be it, it has been a wonderful 9 year journey without mods.

I personally wouldn't care though getting a program that wouldn't just have a work around done is a effort in futility I would much rather they clearly state you may use addons that adjust looks aka shader injections like reshade or whatever it is called and sure allow a damage meter or even put on in by default but if your caught using an addon like this it's just a perma ban not stop no appeals though if there not going to budge to allow some things then sure go for it I wouldn't mind.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

I do think you're gravely underestimating the number of people that would quit if mods were somehow defeated, however. Would it be a majority? No, but it would be enough to make the game a good bit less lucrative than it is. ...And considering FFXIV and the mobile games are about the only things keeping SE alive right now, that probably isn't in their best interest.

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Quit and go where? Back to world of Warcraft? Twitter? Tumblr? Sims 4?
People will stomp their feet. Cry online somewhere. Then realize there aren’t really any options. Most who quit will return when there’s nowhere else to go

Fact of it all is, any and all mods are against ToS. It's not right. It defeats the integrity of the experience for everyone that matters: the people who share yoshi's value and sentiment toward clearing content through fair and natural trial and error.

DBM ruined WoW, cactbot and other mods are ruining FFXIV. I really hope that the FFXIV team does the right thing and brings the hammer down hard, instead of doing what WoW did and making the game into mechanic overload vomit because it's too easy any other way with the way addons work. WoW is a really really weird feeling game when you don't have addons installed. FFXIV feels proper without addons. Please preserve the integrity of this experience. It must not be lost on people who want to take the easy route through life.

I'm getting some crazy flashbacks to the Windower days.