Endgame gearing in FFXIV

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Originally Posted by Johners

Going forward I'd like to see Square Enix take a leaf out of WoW's book. For PvE gearing, Mythic+ and Raiding can reach the same peak of the item level curve entirely independently of each other and you can do high level Mythic+ keys without ever needing to raid. Likewise the inverse is true if you like raiding but don't want to do Mythic+. This would require Criterion dungeons to be fleshed out into a system that's ready at the start of each raid tier so you can enter with the crafted/normal mode gear and progress to the same need point.

In general I do think the pace of gearing is far too slow, especially if you want multiple gear sets to be as powerful as possible on multiple jobs while playing a single character. Definitely feels like it's balanced solely to keep you playing longer and subscribing for more months per raid tier... although that's a somewhat expected design decision for a subscription MMO.

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WoW has the problem of M+ not being restricted to a lockout meaning you grind the hell out of it to get the best gear from it week one, invalidating two tiers of raids before you do your X 15s for the week and collect your free mythic item level loot from the vault.

It's a terrible system.

Gearing up is pointless in this game. Just wear sexy glamours!

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Originally Posted by Shenlao

Love the guy that doesn't have any savage experience talking about how the loot system is fine. Keep defending this shit while pf is dead as fuck in certain regions and doesn't let people easily jump around on alt jobs to help out people.
Good chunk of my friends already unsubbed cause waiting hours in pf cause shit doesn't fill is very enjoyable.

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"It keeps people subbed!"

People are literally unsubbing because it's not fun.

"You're meant to take breaks!"

Then why can't we change it?

"Uh ...it keeps people subbed!"

Lol, the FFXIV system may suck, but careful what you wish for with WoW's system of loot. There's no coffers, no books either - tokens became a thing only in the last season (which they said is "experimental") - and expansion by expansion they're making it harder to gear within M+ by raising the max Key you need to do to get the best iLevel items - which will always be worse than Mythic Raids. You get the highest iLevel item only from the weekly "Vault", from where you pick only one item out of maximum 9 (3 each for raid, M+ and PvP if you fulfil all requirements).

And no, you can't do M+ Keys without raiding. Have even a slight knowledge of essential BiS like Trinkets and you'll be proved wrong.

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Originally Posted by Shenlao

Love the guy that doesn't have any savage experience talking about how the loot system is fine. Keep defending this shit while pf is dead as fuck in certain regions and doesn't let people easily jump around on alt jobs to help out people.
Good chunk of my friends already unsubbed cause waiting hours in pf cause shit doesn't fill is very enjoyable.

Maybe in the future people who aren't affected by what is talked about here just learn to shut up and let improvements happen based on feedback from people that are actually affected. But I guess for clowns like above me can't stop pretending to give out opinions on things they have no clue about.
Like sorry but mr crafted gear that hasn't killed a single savage boss this entire expansion yes you're fucking unqualified to tell others about how the loot system is fast enough.

Like the logic with which people are defending this shit would have blocked pretty much all changes to the loot system we already got like coffer changes etc. It's actually so unbelievably how stupid the arguments are.

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Why are you and your friends not making a static together then? Seems like blaming the gearing system is just a cover for your laziness. The gearing system is perfectly fine and significantly better than other mmos Go play rng swtor and tell me this games gear progression is bad lol. The only thing that is annoying is being unable to gear alts, but the actual system itself with drops/tomes/books is perfectly fine.

I'm not having any problems with gearing in PF. This week I got the last twine I needed with books. I'm 629 on my main and 620 on my alt even though I started a week late and went 3 weeks without any drops.

The biggest problem is that I haven't been able to see all of p2 because I can't find a party that can get to the mechanic they aim to practice. Any static want a Reaper who can't commit to a set raiding schedule? :D

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Why are you and your friends not making a static together then? Seems like blaming the gearing system is just a cover for your laziness. The gearing system is perfectly fine and significantly better than other moms. Go play rng swtor and tell me this games gear progression is bad lol. The only thing that is annoying is being unable to gear alts, but the actual system itself with drops/tomes/books is perfectly fine.

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"Other MMO is worse" is not an argument as to why this MMO is fine. And considering the first point in the OP is about gearing alts, I don't know how you can try to respond as if alts aren't an issue, because ease of gearing alts is directly tied to the system used to give out gear (drops/tomes/books).

The system is good, but it's not perfect. Being good "enough" isn't a reason for saying that improvements shouldn't be suggested.



Personally, I only actually ever play BRD, so I don't need any changes to the system tbh. But I can see why others would, and I think some sort of system that let you easily gear an alt job after gearing your main may be useful.

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Originally Posted by Shenlao

aha didn't know you can make a static with only 4 people(pls don't even start typing just find 4 other people lul) -> also disregards that leading a static actually takes a ton more work/effort than pf life, also disregards that some of my friends don't necessarily play at the same time as me every week since we're all working adults and some work at different times.
Also disregards that we all are smart enough that we 4 wouldn't even want to raid together because our level of play is different enough 2 of my friends just wouldn't mix. Our expectations on what we'd want out of the experience is just way different.
Making a static isn't a real solution to the party finder experience having become significantly less active than first tier.
Like when raiding becomes that inaccessible despite there being possible systemic solution I'll just stop playing to be honest.

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Gearing problem affects both static splits people (what if bad tome bis rng gl waiting weeks for tomes for no reason) and pf only players.
"Solution" : just make static 4Head

No wonder i have this guy on ignore list here.

I have cleared p1-3s/p5-7s week 1, p4s week 3, p8s week 4 (very cool rng with hc2 traps), i play for more than a year and i still cant find savage static on DEAD EU REGION (this tier i got bis week 10 very cool, thankfully its useless since no one does logs on EU, i cant play the game, system doesnt even let me help other players because i will give them -1 chest)

And all these white knights can do is post pointless useless trash something something just find a static, statics are not affected!

The main that kills me about loot is the lack a variety in terms of gear acquisition with specifics to farming tomestones to cap. I wish there was more varied ways to farm tomestones in a week. Especially since once I hit cap for the week, it opens the option for me to be able to use my roulettes for example to level alt jobs.

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

Lol, the FFXIV system may suck, but careful what you wish for with WoW's system of loot. There's no coffers, no books either - tokens became a thing only in the last season (which they said is "experimental") - and expansion by expansion they're making it harder to gear within M+ by raising the max Key you need to do to get the best iLevel items - which will always be worse than Mythic Raids. You get the highest iLevel item only from the weekly "Vault", from where you pick only one item out of maximum 9 (3 each for raid, M+ and PvP if you fulfil all requirements).

And no, you can't do M+ Keys without raiding. Have even a slight knowledge of essential BiS like Trinkets and you'll be proved wrong.

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The Vault's shitty RNG has nothing to do with FF14's gearing issues. If WoW lives rent free in your brain, why don't you go over here and work some of that out: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/

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Originally Posted by Yeastyloins

The Vault's shitty RNG has nothing to do with FF14's gearing issues. If WoW lives rent free in your brain, why don't you go over here and work some of that out: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/

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Thats a typical se white knight trying to derail "wow bad so we wont do anything in ff14"

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Originally Posted by Shenlao

Aha didn't know you can make a static with only 4 people(pls don't even start typing just find 4 other people lul) -> also disregards that leading a static actually takes a ton more work/effort than pf life, also disregards that some of my friends don't necessarily play at the same time as me every week since we're all working adults and some work at different times.
Also disregards that we all are smart enough that we 4 wouldn't even want to raid together because our level of play is different enough 2 of my friends just wouldn't mix. Our expectations on what we'd want out of the experience is just way different.
Making a static isn't a real solution to the party finder experience having become significantly less active than first tier. Like when raiding becomes that inaccessible despite there being possible systemic solution I'll just stop playing to be honest.
But honestly it's amazing how you couldn't even come up with any reasons yourself, like are you for real? Do you even know what it takes to raid savage? It sure doesn't seem like it... given how I think that anyone that would raid savage in PF just understands why they're doing that. Like contrary to what some people believe people aren't skipping joining statics cause they like being dicked over by the pf team roulette. They play in PF because that's what their life style allows for, it's simple as that.

But why even detract from the topic from this actual thread with some nonsense that is completely irrelevant. Like I hope you do understand me and my friends even if we were to make a successful static these problems just don't disappear and even if we assume it would work for my case I hope there at least enough braincells left to process that it's not a real solution for most players that play with pf. People have reasons for not playing in statics and it's good for the health of the game that content remains pf accessible but sure disagree and call people that aren't going the extra mile to participate in this content lazy.

Also for sure interesting that this question that is completely irrelevant and serves no actual point except just be anti changes comes again from another clown that doesn't actually seem to participate in PFing savage. Pls why do you people feel the need to even post in here. It literally doesn't affect yall.

Like anyone arguing against this is honestly a freaking weirdo. Like you're arguing against the wish of people of being able to play more jobs in party finder. What an absolute horror and how can players be so entitled???? Everything is fine stop demanding changes that won't affect myself. I hope people can look into themselves and actually realize how cringe that shit is.

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Literally your entire rant comes down to its a you problem lol.

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Originally Posted by Stasya

Gearing problem affects both static splits people (what if bad tome bis rng gl waiting weeks for tomes for no reason) and pf only players.
"Solution" : just make static 4Head

No wonder i have this guy on ignore list here.

I have cleared p1-3s/p5-7s week 1, p4s week 3, p8s week 4 (very cool rng with hc2 traps), i play for more than a year and i still cant find savage static on DEAD EU REGION (this tier i got bis week 10 very cool, thankfully its useless since no one does logs on EU, i cant play the game, system doesnt even let me help other players because i will give them -1 chest)

And all these white knights can do is post pointless useless trash something something just find a static, statics are not affected!

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It's not just a PF problem as well, I started this tier out in PF and then eventually found a static.. Yet, even in a static I haven't been able to get a single twine drop this entire time. I would ask for it every week, explaining how it would be a rather large improvement for me to shift away from tenacity(lel) into more optimal substats; and still, I just went unheard. All of the DPS in the group had 2-3 augmented lunar pieces, and the RDM that has been absent for two weeks rolls need on it even though they can buy twine with books by next reclear.. So, it was basically inefficient for the entire raid for them to roll on it.. I will need two more weeks of guaranteed twine or 8 more weeks of books just to reach BiS, to top it off the statics policy for p8s2 is weapons/chest to DPS first, and who is to say that after one of the DPS gets what they want that they don't just "take a break" or "call off". I am the only person in that static that has even cleared p8s2; after asking for twine for weeks(with me saying I desperately need just one), I quit. This loot system is awful, there is no excuse nor any defense when far better options have been suggested, when it is clear that there could be a far more fair way about things, not to even mention that in my case it is completely impossible for me to get even just one alt job to where I would like it regardless of if I put the time in to reclear every week.

PF simply expects you to play on your main. Thats it. People set the ilvl to 610 or 615, even 620 now because they expect you to be past crafting gear. So if you have been gearing one job and suddenly want to do what Yoshi P suggested and try healer you have to create your own group but no one is going to respect your group because the ilvl you set is low.

But then there is another problem because raiding is the only way to increase ilvl beyond 620. Realistically after 8 weeks you can start gearing another job. Thats if you are serious and start day 1 but a casual player probably wont clear the 4th fight week one and not everyone is lucky enough to win loot every week even when in a static.

Literally running p7s every week for a 1/8 chance to get a twine or wait 1 month to get a guaranteed 1 twine from 4 books for 1 job just to do it all over again for the next piece when you need 3 twines so at worst after 3 months you can have 1 job geared. Who would want to do that same thing on another job? That is why most people just play one role/job while the other jobs simply get scraps.

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Originally Posted by Shenlao

get a static or bust

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SE white knights forcing find static meme so much yet there is no ingame system to find one, you have to rely on third party stuff and also literally how alive your region is (cries in eu again)

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Originally Posted by Stasya

SE white knights forcing find static meme so much yet there is no ingame system to find one, you have to rely on third party stuff and also literally how alive your region is (cries in eu again)

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Europan Raiding Central discord has like 30 static recruitment offer each day and that's only counting the english ones. I never had any issue finding other players despite the fact that our schedule has to accomodate to two different night shifts.
I'm not here to defend the gearing system and I understand that statics are not fit for everyone, but EU is not dead if you want to find one.

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

Europan Raiding Central discord has like 30 static recruitment offer each day and that's only counting the english ones. I never had any issue finding other players despite our static's

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I dont know what you are trying to defend. Am i need to join people who search now for p7s prog?

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Originally Posted by Stasya

I dont know what you are trying to defend. Am i need to join people who search now for p7s prog?

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Just today there are four different offers of static looking to prog P7S on ERC.
I don't know you, what job you're playing and what's your schedule. But the idea that it's impossible to start progging P7S on EU is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

Just today there are four different offers of static looking to prog P7S on ERC.
I don't know you, what job you're playing and what's your schedule. But the idea that it's impossible to start progging P7S on EU is wrong.

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Again, you probably missing my point but w/e you can call a bunch of casual statics "alive region" as you wish.

Everything but the 2nd point is off. Gearing is more than fine, and really aside from doing more limiting on variance for high potency substats are fine right where they are. Also as to the static bit, if you are looking and can't find one you are either lying about looking, or are undesirable; pick one

While I kinda do agree with you, Kazhar, I think what Stasya means is that she doesn't want to join a roster that's still stuck on P7S W9 (or 10, I don't know anymore), because they're supposedly people that will take one more month or more to kill P8S.

Basically, they feel left out of the "good" static scene because, for whatever reasons, they couldn't join a roster before that. While I don't think it's true, and that you can find good people progging well even two months after the release of new content, I can't blame them for not being willing to try, since even if they CAN find a good static, chance is they'll probably try one or two statics that won't be good for them, and that's a waste of time for everyone involved. If they're naturally introverted, it can be pretty exhausting to do.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Gearing is more than fine

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I think people like you are too gigabrain to be afk on forums, maybe its time to apply for world prog groups?

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

Basically, they feel left out of the "good" static scene because, for whatever reasons, they couldn't join a roster before that. While I don't think it's true, and that you can find good people progging well even two months after the release of new content, I can't blame them for not being willing to try, since even if they CAN find a good static, chance is they'll probably try one or two statics that won't be good for them, and that's a waste of time for everyone involved. If they're naturally introverted, it can be pretty exhausting to do.

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I have spammed same message about group for couple months so well you got my point, if you want to play seriously on eu you have old friends who play there or idk leave to na.

And i dont want to let down some casual people but i sometime see messages from same people in lfg channel, again calling this raiding scene alive is an insult tbh, compare this to NA or JP, there are statistic about p8s clears released recently too

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Originally Posted by Shenlao

go and play party finder savage for a bit and come back having that experience before talking?

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I've done PF savage and it sucks because pugging sucks. Has nothing to do with the gearing system and my opinion on the gearing system wouldn't change even if I did PF full time. I would like a secondary system to gear alts, but the core design of the current gearing system is perfectly fine.

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Originally Posted by Shenlao

In other words you just need to give your shit opinion on an issue you have no experience on and that won't affect you but you definitely feel the need to argue against changes that would positively affect other players?
That's for sure how a normal person thinks.... people like you are flatout crazy.

Like pls let me know how changes to facilitate better job fluidity in party finder savage will ruin the game for you. I guess in the end you just want people that aren't playing like you to stop playing the game. Very normal person behavior.

Like my guy sometimes when shit doesn't affect you, you can just not have your own opinion. Really nobody needs to hear a take about someone that doesn't engage with the system with how it's discussed. It's frankly worthless. Unless the changes proposed actually infringe on how you play the game .... I just don't understand why... it's like unfathomably levels of cooked brain attitude.

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But it does effect me. Why change something that isn't broken? I've been through gear system changes in several mmos and the result is always worse than what we had before which wasn't even bad to begin with. Swtor being the biggest offender of that.

It used to have a very similar syste to what xiv has and people complained about it cuz of lockouts and other nonsense. The fix? They threw gear at you left and right and all of it was pure rng so you were spending most of your time throwing trash gear out that was cluttering your inventory. Oh and it basically killed the raiding scene cuz there were no guaranteed drops. You basically just spammed the fastest dungeon so you could destroy as much trash gear as possible for tech frags to buy what you needed which made gearing take longer and be more convoluted than the other system.

The grass isn't always greener. Again, I'd like an alternative system to make gearing alts a possibility, but the current system as a whole doesn't need to change, especially with the high possibility of things being worse if they were to change it.

At least with PF, I think the largest issue comes from the fact that there is nothing to stop individuals from rolling need on gear they do not "need". Nothing prevents a person from joining a PF in full bis and just swiping gear left and right from others who need something which makes every piece of loot outside of actual weapon drops from the final turn a 1/8 chance to win which in a way permanently difficult to get gear consistently outside of books. However I don't think there is a solution to this though without causing more issues and making it nigh impossible to gear alt jobs. The only thing I can think of is maybe making it so you are able to win two piece of gear from each floor, so for example you win the twine from P7s but lose the roll for the legs, then you could jump right back into P7s and clear it again for another chance on the legs. But I would be reluctant to the idea since it seems super strenuous on the player to have to double clear in the best case scenario every single floor, even worse should you not get your pieces within 1 to 2 clears per floor.

The issues with gearing is difficult to say what the optimal solution is since there are clear issues but the path forward is unclear.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

I've done PF savage and it sucks because pugging sucks.

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https://media.tenor.com/fYPeTalZ1gcA...-the-truth.gif

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Originally Posted by Stasya

I think people like you are too gigabrain to be afk on forums, maybe its time to apply for world prog groups?

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The recognition of my skill is appreciated, but I don't have the patience for that many hours in a week

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Originally Posted by Ransu

But it does effect me. Why change something that isn't broken? I've been through gear system changes in several mmos and the result is always worse than what we had before which wasn't even bad to begin with. Swtor being the biggest offender of that.

It used to have a very similar syste to what xiv has and people complained about it cuz of lockouts and other nonsense. The fix? They threw gear at you left and right and all of it was pure rng so you were spending most of your time throwing trash gear out that was cluttering your inventory. Oh and it basically killed the raiding scene cuz there were no guaranteed drops. You basically just spammed the fastest dungeon so you could destroy as much trash gear as possible for tech frags to buy what you needed which made gearing take longer and be more convoluted than the other system.

The grass isn't always greener. Again, I'd like an alternative system to make gearing alts a possibility, but the current system as a whole doesn't need to change, especially with the high possibility of things being worse if they were to change it.

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Didn't OP say the system is already good but just needs to be built upon? Not sure how your Swtor example relates to any suggestions from the OP, considering that example just throws the previous system to the wayside, and doesn't contradict any improvement suggestions made here...

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Originally Posted by LysDusoir

It's not just a PF problem as well, I started this tier out in PF and then eventually found a static.. Yet, even in a static I haven't been able to get a single twine drop this entire time. I would ask for it every week, explaining how it would be a rather large improvement for me to shift away from tenacity(lel) into more optimal substats; and still, I just went unheard. All of the DPS in the group had 2-3 augmented lunar pieces, and the RDM that has been absent for two weeks rolls need on it even though they can buy twine with books by next reclear.. So, it was basically inefficient for the entire raid for them to roll on it.. I will need two more weeks of guaranteed twine or 8 more weeks of books just to reach BiS, to top it off the statics policy for p8s2 is weapons/chest to DPS first, and who is to say that after one of the DPS gets what they want that they don't just "take a break" or "call off". I am the only person in that static that has even cleared p8s2; after asking for twine for weeks(with me saying I desperately need just one), I quit. This loot system is awful, there is no excuse nor any defense when far better options have been suggested, when it is clear that there could be a far more fair way about things, not to even mention that in my case it is completely impossible for me to get even just one alt job to where I would like it regardless of if I put the time in to reclear every week.

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To be honest, I would've quit a lot earlier if that story is true. Their loot system was obvious nonsense 10 weeks into the raid tier and with P8S getting nerfed. They either just planned to funnel loot to themselves and call it quits, your dps were incredibly bad or both.

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Originally Posted by Stasya

Thats a typical se white knight trying to derail "wow bad so we wont do anything in ff14"

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Wha? That's some very unnecessary hostility. I was talking to someone who said the game needs WoW's system, literally just scroll up. I just didn't quote them because I couldn't snip neatly on phone.

You people can get very insufferable. GL getting supporters on your side with that attitude.

Gearing is not slow unless you want for multiple jobs at once, current system makes sure you pick your favorite job to kit out first so there is a chance for some skill in the game... if want to do it same pace all classes, make one alt for each one of the jobs.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Gearing is not slow unless you want for multiple jobs at once, current system makes sure you pick your favorite job to kit out first so there is a chance for some skill in the game... if want to do it same pace all classes, make one alt for each one of the jobs.

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...did you actually even read the post? Because that's part of the complaint. One of the game's selling points is being able to play all "classes" on a single character, except you actually can't at the higher end, you're locked into whichever job you decide to gear first.
And no, making an alt for every job you want to play is not a solution. At that point it's just flat out worse than WoW's, ESO's or Guild Wars 2's class system, because those atleast give you some variety while you grind to max level.

Not to mention that almost all cosmetics, mounts and minions are limited to a single character, including those you pay actual money for.

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Originally Posted by Absurdity

...did you actually even read the post? Because that's part of the complaint. One of the game's selling points is being able to play all "classes" on a single character, except you actually can't at the higher end, you're locked into whichever job you decide to gear first.
And no, making an alt for every job you want to play is not a solution. At that point it's probably worse than WoW's, ESO's or Guild Wars 2's class system, because those atleast give you some variety while you grind to max level.

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Because you can, you can kit out character entirely with previous generation gear or use crafted, you may be off 10 ilevels for a while, but that is it, it wont make you stop being able to use your character for pretty much any content in the game as it is.

Not for ultimates or Criterion Savage. If you want to do other jobs, then you're SOL.\

Edit: Not to mention, people don't want the bare minimum for the most part they went leeway and buffers so they will set the ilvl higher than what the crafted gear is.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Because you can, you can kit out character entirely with previous generation gear or use crafted, you may be off 10 ilevels for a while, but that is it, it wont make you stop being able to use your character for pretty much any content in the game as it is.

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Unless you are siphoning resources from your main, everything else is stuck at, at best, the peak of the previous tier.

To be only 10 ilvl off means you either cleared Savage week 1 and got lucky on alt gear rolls (which still only covers 1 of several alternate gear classes), or you held your main back by funneling resources to another job.

For those unlucky with drops, that could often mean being unable to take part in Week 3 farms, given how high the community likes to jack up ilvl requirements.

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Gearing is not slow unless you want for multiple jobs at once, current system makes sure you pick your favorite job to kit out first so there is a chance for some skill in the game... if want to do it same pace all classes, make one alt for each one of the jobs.

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Let me guess, you dont do savage?

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Originally Posted by Themarvin

Gearing is not slow unless you want for multiple jobs at once, current system makes sure you pick your favorite job to kit out first so there is a chance for some skill in the game... if want to do it same pace all classes, make one alt for each one of the jobs.

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What does gearing have to do with skill?

I've been savage raiding the current tier for the 2 1/2 months on my main and nothing but books and 1 upgrade material...It's been frustrating..and the pacing is very slow for me who gets nothing but books and one upgrade material roll on P6S..don't think anyone here understands how rough it is for folks who have bad RNG...from my experience, it has been very frustrating, to say the least.

We still need alot of tome acc upgrade and that thing only dropped on p6s... Why not p5s as well? Almost entire static need them :(

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Originally Posted by Knot_D

We still need alot of tome acc upgrade and that thing only dropped on p6s... Why not p5s as well? Almost entire static need them :(

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1st turn dropping right side upgrade wound be dope.

As someone who now mains 5 jobs across different roles and is picking up more... this hurts more than ever. I have no way to reasonably gear my alts despite this game meant for swapping, meaning I cannot be the flex I wanna be in other content with my friends.