PvP is simply garbage

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Originally Posted by tsuchii

It's been hotfixed. Covered players get interrupted now.

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Has it ? Can you show me where they say they've hotfixed it ?

I haven't played Onsal, but I just asked around quickly and I've been told it's still a thing. I can't find a mention of it in the game updates, just a boss fight cover fix in PVE.

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Originally Posted by GordonGeeko

Has it ? Can you show me where they say they've hotfixed it ?

I haven't played Onsal, but I just asked around quickly and I've been told it's still a thing. I can't find a mention of it in the game updates, just a boss fight cover fix in PVE.

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My bad. I was just told by a friend but I saw it firsthand that it's not yet fixed.

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Originally Posted by Sindele

Asking people to not be abusive is not the same as asking for no criticism. Considering the state of the mortally aggrieved posting that goes on here, I'm not surprised that that point seems to fly over people's heads, but nonetheless it remains true.

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When people go ignored for MONTHS on end about pressing issues without any kind of statement on the matter, people tend to get bitter about things, leading to emotionally charged posts deriding intern-san for not doing anything about the current state of PvP. I've been there lmao. Just take the onsal PLD meme. It has been around for MONTHS, blatantly ruining games and the devs choose to do nothing about it. Ya feel?

Samurai just killed 3-4 of us because of his limit break. I'm not sure why that is a thing or who thought it was a good idea to input something so skill less and boring.
On top of that, anytime you want to get into combat as a melee you are instantly met with stuns and crowd control stuff. The PVP all around is just awful and gets worse every time they change it. At least PVP was fun and bearable in 3.0.
To note the stun issue, I would like to actually play the game and not be stuck in a single spot every time I want to get into combat. Mega boring gameplay.

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Originally Posted by tsuchii

Frontline is the mount collector's hell.

The number of people who can't grasp the idea that breaking ice (70 and 300 pts) nets you more points then killing a player (5 pts). I honestly CANNOT wait for the day I'm done farming wins in this godawful cancer PVP so I can forget about it and never set foot in it again.

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Yet there are also plenty of instances where people religiously break those ices but still get stomped hard by that group who grinds their BH5s and become literally unstoppable at 2nd half of entire match duration. First half of frontlines are always objective heavy, while the 2nd half the objective isn’t as prominent.

On the topic… I still enjoy FLs mostly, but they certainly can get some improvement. Having a single melee DPS tanking a quarter of alliance by themselves shouldn’t even be a thing. Implementing diminishing return on CC could also be a good start, except the unique ones like RPR’s Hysteria & DNC’s Charmed. BH bonus and the rate which they are gained & lost could probably be tweaked as well (I personally think the healing buff is a bit broken now that it’s also paired with increased overall damage reduction especially on melees). Maybe make BH does slightly different things for different roles i.e in addition to increased health pool, tanks get additional damage reduction%, dpses gets increased damage%, healer gets healing boost & higher CC resistance… but idk. I’m no game designer :) Just putting that out.

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Originally Posted by Neon231

Samurai just killed 3-4 of us because of his limit break. I'm not sure why that is a thing or who thought it was a good idea to input something so skill less and boring.
On top of that, anytime you want to get into combat as a melee you are instantly met with stuns and crowd control stuff. The PVP all around is just awful and gets worse every time they change it. At least PVP was fun and bearable in 3.0.
To note the stun issue, I would like to actually play the game and not be stuck in a single spot every time I want to get into combat. Mega boring gameplay.

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Yeah, I'm not sure why they keep buffing melee in frontlines when they legitimately just need to add CC diminishing returns back. Also maybe don't make it so over half the CC abilities randomly aren't cleansable. I actually have no idea what they were thinking when they removed CC DR. It's like they completely forgot why they added in the first place and are just repeating old mistakes again.

There's quite a few things I don't like about current skills in Frontlines.

The samurai LB thing is one thing. If you can't know if they have LB ready, it's kind of like playing russian roulette everytime you are facing one. Do they have LB ready ? Are they about to pop Chiten ? If they do, will I insta die ? You just can't know.

I also don't like the PLD LB and the DRK LB slowing the game down so much. There's just not much in terms of counterplay. I miss when you could dispel Hallowed Ground on summoner with wither. Now, you just end up with 15 teammates hitting those tanks with no one dying.

The PLD cover exploit is just ridiculous. It's baffling that's it not been fixed yet.

Secure games are way too long. They usually reach the full distance and 20 minutes is just too much.

Playing team mode without teams is tuff.

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Originally Posted by GordonGeeko

There's quite a few things I don't like about current skills in Frontlines.

The samurai LB thing is one thing. If you can't know if they have LB ready, it's kind of like playing russian roulette everytime you are facing one. Do they have LB ready ? Are they about to pop Chiten ? If they do, will I insta die ? You just can't know.

I also don't like the PLD LB and the DRK LB slowing the game down so much. There's just not much in terms of counterplay. I miss when you could dispel Hallowed Ground on summoner with wither. Now, you just end up with 15 teammates hitting those tanks with no one dying.

The PLD cover exploit is just ridiculous. It's baffling that's it not been fixed yet.

Secure games are way too long. They usually reach the full distance and 20 minutes is just too much.

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The Frontline damage reduction is a bit ridiculous. Everything hits like a wet noodle. Kind of sad when some MNK busts out his LB combo...and it doesn't even break through Huton shield lol.

They balance themselves into hell, if they try to make arenamode skills work in frontline.
They could make seperate traits/skillsets for each mode, but their PvP agenda is casual-orientated, so they wont add too much complexity to it.

Something as simple as making heals cost 5k MP instead of only 2,5k in frontline and let sprint have a cooldown while in combat, would make it more PvP focused, as you don't have an easy way to escape.

Paladin hallowed ground could be changed to shield with 150% of his maxHP when used, making it useless in frontline when ganged up upon, while keeping much of it's efficiency in the arena mode.

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Originally Posted by Neon231

Samurai just killed 3-4 of us because of his limit break. I'm not sure why that is a thing or who thought it was a good idea to input something so skill less and boring.
On top of that, anytime you want to get into combat as a melee you are instantly met with stuns and crowd control stuff. The PVP all around is just awful and gets worse every time they change it. At least PVP was fun and bearable in 3.0.
To note the stun issue, I would like to actually play the game and not be stuck in a single spot every time I want to get into combat. Mega boring gameplay.

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Yes... the times i clicked on my guard or healed myself but the stun got to the server first is a joke... i literally can put away my controller as every stun means basically im dead as ill get 10 in row... meanwhile you cant kill certain jobs even with half an team... the nerf on my rdm lb is a joke as well as i basically cant even kill ppl stacking mid cross with 1/4 their hp...


At this point when i go onsai and see pala cheating i just leave. idk, rather i dont do the roulett at all bc it makes me so angry.

I wish I could make a pre-made to combat the teams with five bots that act like hunter-killer drones.

Shoddy server ticks means knock-back/draw-in effects NEVER work the way you need or want them to
I can sometimes be breathing down an enemies neck, not be CC'd, not be stunned, not be silenced, not be anim-locked, not be disabled in any way, and my skills just won't go off when I use them
It's hard to even tell what you're getting knocked-back/drawn-in by anymore in FL. There'll be not a DRK or MCH around for miles and I'll get drawn-in without taking any damage like I just got Salted Earth'd, or knocked-back like I got Scattergun'd

This thing we call PvP is just falling apart more and more every day

I've tried the new PvP and I'm very much not impressed. Too much CC with almost no counterplay. Unless you're playing a busted class, you insta-die. And the Limit Breaks seriously need to be re-tuned. Instant kills/deaths are not fun. Once again, zero counterplay, especially since there's a good chance you're going to be chain-stunned around the time when the Limit Break is being executed.

SWTOR's answer to CC was a good one, where after a certain number of CC hits, your character temporarily became immune to stun/binding effects for a set duration. That buff would eventually wear off, but it gave you time to kite, retreat, kill your opponent, or heal if the opportunity presented itself. Again, CC existed but it was possible to counter it with well-timed use of your stun-break. As far as I can tell, there's none of this in FFXIV's PvP and it makes playing any melee class that's not NIN really annoying.

All this CC needs to be removed or at least severely toned down, as well as OHKO Limit Breaks. No class, anywhere, should have an ability that can kill another class from 100% to 0% in a single hit. That's just plain terrible design in any PvP game, not just an MMO.

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Originally Posted by CrazyAce

I've tried the new PvP and I'm very much not impressed. Too much CC with almost no counterplay. Unless you're playing a busted class, you insta-die. And the Limit Breaks seriously need to be re-tuned. Instant kills/deaths are not fun. Once again, zero counterplay, especially since there's a good chance you're going to be chain-stunned around the time when the Limit Break is being executed.

SWTOR's answer to CC was a good one, where after a certain number of CC hits, your character temporarily became immune to stun/binding effects for a set duration. That buff would eventually wear off, but it gave you time to kite, retreat, kill your opponent, or heal if the opportunity presented itself. Again, CC existed but it was possible to counter it with well-timed use of your stun-break. As far as I can tell, there's none of this in FFXIV's PvP and it makes playing any melee class that's not NIN really annoying.

All this CC needs to be removed or at least severely toned down, as well as OHKO Limit Breaks. No class, anywhere, should have an ability that can kill another class from 100% to 0% in a single hit. That's just plain terrible design in any PvP game, not just an MMO.

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I suggested then same. Even Black Desert has a value system of two hard cc's, and is invulnerable to CC for 5 to 6 seconds. But this whole pvp system is soooo noob catered that if you're not good you should just stop pvp'ing ranked and go to casuals. Or do your easy other scripted game content. Or Like LoL players say. "Please Uninstall" your game.

FFXIV PvP Changes and Suggestions:

Damage Calculations: (Bold: Will be Calculated for PvP)
PHYSICAL DAMAGE TAKEN

PDT = ⌊ PDT3 × rand[95,105] ⌋ /100 ⌋ × ( 1 - buff_1 ) ⌋ × ( 1 - buff_2 ) ⌋

MAGICAL DAMAGE TAKEN
MDT = ⌊ MDT3 × rand[95,105] ⌋ /100 ⌋ × ( 1 - buff_1 ) ⌋ × ( 1 - buff_2 ) ⌋


HEALING
DIRECT HEALS

H = ⌊ H3 × rand[97,103] ⌋ /100 ⌋ × buff_1 ⌋ × buff_2 ⌋
The Direct Heals formula looks similar to Direct Damage with f(HMP) substituting for f(ATK) and DH removed. Furthermore, the randomisation range is reduced from +/-5% to +/-3%.

HEALING-OVER-TIME

H = ⌊ H3 × CRIT? ⌋ /1000 ⌋ × buff_1 ⌋ × buff_2 ⌋

Source: https://www.akhmorning.com/allagan-s...ling-over-time
Base Health: (Suggestions)
Tank - 25000
Melee - 20000
Healer - 18000
R.Dps (MCH,BRD,DNC) -18500
M.Dps (BLM,SMN) - 18600
Red mage / Blue Mage - 17400

Past Actions (Removed):
https://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/C...Removed_Action


Adding to next post

• Current Problem:
• Highly Imbalanced
• Low amount of consecutive counterplay
• Linear Combo and Less Button, choreographed Bursts
• Job Class/Role Removed
• Catered to only one PvP Mode disregarding other modes to keep engagement
• Example: Frontlines / Rival Wings [50% damage reduction]

What is PvP?

Now this question is debatable & can not come to one right answer. So what do we expect from something we called in a multiplayer game Player versus Player (PvP). When confronting an opponent and also engagement in PVP one must always come to mind that:
They are not simulated and scripted opponents
This is a confrontation of skill and understanding of the game.
Example: Like a Chess game
There must be balance between Job/Class Abilities respectively.
There might be times that a display of skill may be shown and it may appear to be an unkillable opponent. There could be many factors separating the opponent and class that has been chosen.

PvP vs PvE Sources and Opinions
PvP vs PvE | A Discussion for the Gaming Ages: https://youtu.be/mh5VQRFN2k4
Has PvP become more Creative than PvE in FFXIV? : https://youtu.be/fui1m7J6oEE
Is WoW PvP Easy or Hard?: https://youtu.be/wZDRwh4gAqQ
How to Play WoW Arena | The Basic Strategy: https://youtu.be/7_qacNramPQ

What can be implemented to increase technical play?
There are plenty of ways to modify PvP. From shielding, to crowd control. But what makes crowd controls imbalanced? To answer from my own perspective, it can only be imbalanced by lack of counterplay. So what can we do about that?

My suggestion is as followed:
Adding a Technique Point Gauge [TP Bar] with a new revamp to it towards PvP.
1000 TP [50-80 TP recovery/ 4s]

• Functionality : Added Depth to PvP
• Counterplay
• Buffs
• Empowered Weapon Skills / Abilities / Magic
• Purify / Fetterward Multi-Use (Spamable)
• Medical Kit / Potions
• Similar to Feast calculations.

Combo Swapping Abilities (Single Target and AoE)
Eg: Similar to Monk going from Opo, Raptor, Coeurl Forms
Similar to Monk PvE that can change to any 1 of 3 form moves, all classes are able to rotate between their designated Single Target to AoE combo without losing combo potency.
Another Example not using Monk for a 3 part Combo:
*Note: After using any GCD that is part of the 3 part combo, it will continue for all combos whether its the Single Target Combo or AoE combo and also depending on which part of rotation you are currently within either the Beginning Middle or End. *

• Single > Single > Single
• Single > AoE > AoE
• Single > Single > AoE
• AoE > Single > Single
• Aoe > Single > AoE

Increase Length of Holding off a rotation in a combo to 15s-20s.
Reason: Many combos fall off in about 9.5-10s from every FFXIV Job.
Can Help with Team Synergy and Burst Play
Touch of Death Combos (ToD)
Requires significant understanding of the game, class, and counterplay
Weaving oGCDs
Limit Breaks add value to already existing combo

Theoretical idea: requires a lot of time and consideration to critically think multiple scenarios
Class / Jobs Abilities: Return of Class Gauges
*Note: Any move following a forward Slash (/) is an Empowered move under correct requirements.* (All Classes will have their gauges returned to PvE counterpart)
[All classes will have 12-16 normal moves, or 4 - 8 additional abilities]
Tanks:
Paladin:
Single Target:
Fast Blade / Blade of Faith
Riot Blade / Blade of Truth
Rage of Halone / Blade of Valor
AoE Target:
Prominence /
Holy Circle /
Confiteor /
Utilities:
Cover / Area Cover
Hallowed Ground
Intervene

How to know your group has bots?

The rest of your team focuses fires on killing targets!

I didn't think it was possible, but CC is now even worse than it was in Season 2. Getting Gold ranks on the other team, I'm now getting stun locked every time I dare to peek my head out.

It's almost like Squeenix doesn't want anyone but botters to play CC.

After putting one minute of thought into PvP, I have come to the obvious conclusion that everyone involved in making the game mode is grossly incompetent. I can see the skeleton of a fun mode, but the current people working on it really have zero talent for making a PvP experience. Shame.

Imo range players, aside for maybe BLM, shouldn't have any CC, or if they keep CC they should do trash damage. But to do decent damage and great CC from a safe distance is absolutely dumb. Much like a lot of things CC related in this mode.

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Originally Posted by GordonGeeko

There's quite a few things I don't like about current skills in Frontlines.

The samurai LB thing is one thing. If you can't know if they have LB ready, it's kind of like playing russian roulette everytime you are facing one. Do they have LB ready ? Are they about to pop Chiten ? If they do, will I insta die ? You just can't know.

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This is exactly what i hate too (about SAM). When i have to fight against one, i must use like 4 eyes.. and often it is not enough.. usually i attack him, just for him pop chiten half second AFTER my attack but i still get the debuff.. i know conterplays (i can use my shields to UP my life, or RUN) but it is annoying as hell and sometimes that bugs out too..
If you see me on some maps (like on bases on Borderland), and defending a node against a SAM "apparently doing nothing", it is because that is the best way to oppose them the majority of the time.. no point in going 1VS1 when they can just trow their trump card, just for me NOT KNOWING if they can oneshot me in return at their pleasure.. i just refute the confrontation.

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Originally Posted by Oextra

Imo range players, aside for maybe BLM, shouldn't have any CC, or if they keep CC they should do trash damage. But to do decent damage and great CC from a safe distance is absolutely dumb. Much like a lot of things CC related in this mode.

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I LOVE being chain silenced by a brd and then by a rdm, which i just happened to be in line of. Group silence, great idea tbh!

Purify needs stacks, an immunity to cc on USE and cc of some classes need longer cooldowns.

Why is it they nerfed the Aoe BIND of Ast but keep the Aoe silence of rdm? Because rdm is a line instead of 5 yalm circle? But why does rdm need to have an aoe silence/bind then if asts was too strong and was changed?

Why is it that they needed to reduce IMP range instead of making IMP cleansable?

There's so many questionable changes to one thing but not other things in play.

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Originally Posted by Cheremia

I LOVE being chain silenced by a brd and then by a rdm, which i just happened to be in line of. Group silence, great idea tbh!

Purify needs stacks, an immunity to cc on USE and cc of some classes need longer cooldowns.

Why is it they nerfed the Aoe BIND of Ast but keep the Aoe silence of rdm? Because rdm is a line instead of 5 yalm circle? But why does rdm need to have an aoe silence/bind then if asts was too strong and was changed?

Why is it that they needed to reduce IMP range instead of making IMP cleansable?

There's so many questionable changes to one thing but not other things in play.

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I really wonder what these goobers were smoking that made them think that magical ranged DPS need shields, dots, aoes, gap closers and aoe CC. Absolute morons, the lot of em.

Im close to saying bring feast back...i dont remember being nearly as frustrated not even close

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Originally Posted by Dreadz

I really wonder what these goobers were smoking that made them think that magical ranged DPS need shields, dots, aoes, gap closers and aoe CC. Absolute morons, the lot of em.

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and lets not forget all melee but drg have some form of stun and or cc effect. i'll say ti again everyone gets cc/stun or no one get it

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Originally Posted by Latarma

and lets not forget all melee but drg have some form of stun and or cc effect. i'll say ti again everyone gets cc/stun or no one get it

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I think it'd be better to have soft CC like slows. Still nowhere near as much though. Also reaper's kinda in the same boat as DRG, only having CC on their LB.

When you do a promotion match for the next tier and only ever have bronze/unranked on your team, it's pretty clear the "PvP" team doesn't even test their garbage math matching system.