New hrothgar hairstyles are really bad.

I'm glad I'm fine with how my hroth looks and don't mind sticking with my current hairstyle. Still very disappointing to see this though, and sad to see the race I enjoy playing get this letdown of a treatment. Really hope its just an april fools joke in bad taste.

This got to be a April's Fool joke, right? Please let this be a joke ...
Reall considering changing back to Miqo'te now that SE proved again and again that Hrothgar are just a joke to them.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I don't see how it "completely" destroys the notion. As you say yourself, it's only a possible implication – and I don't think you can read anything into it unless female Viera and male Hrothgar got a shared selection that was different to what male Viera got, and that is not the case.

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Not sure what you're saying, Male Hrothgar got all the shared hair Male Viera got so that's male-to-male connection right there. We know Female Hrothgar are coming, makes sense to assume that they will also get the hair that Female Viera have.

As for how they pick hair, all we have to go on is YP pointing out that 2B was a high priority hairstyle, presumably because it's popular and highly desired/ whined for. Why 2B and 9S and Karen over styles that came earlier or later like Modern Legend/ Wind Caller/ Early to Rise and that Anime-Boi-Bed hair one? Who knows, only the devs ... but I wouldn't doubt that the Nier hairs and the Karen and the Lightning hair would be more beloved by Viera than Wind Caller/ Modern Legend, for example.

As it stands, there's clearly a link between what hair Viera get and what hair Hrothgar get. Why and What it means is another matter.

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Originally Posted by Apoptomon

In case anyone is interested, here\\'s how hrothgar heads look bald today:
Unless they have changed how the models is structured for 6.1, the ears as much part of the head as hyur/roe/elezen/lala ears and aura horns.

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The bald option is so Nice, much more than all options that SE showed to us.

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Originally Posted by reivaxe

Not sure what you're saying, Male Hrothgar got all the shared hair Male Viera got so that's male-to-male connection right there. We know Female Hrothgar are coming, makes sense to assume that they will also get the hair that Female Viera have.

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Male Viera and male Hrothgar never had a reason to have been linked. It was female Viera and male Hrothgar that might have been (still could be, for all we can know) packaged together as a single race.

Anyway, all three have received the same six hairstyles so there's nothing to be inferred from them receiving different things.

I think you may be thinking of gender-counterpart hairstyles as "different hairstyles"? They're not, from an unlocking perspective. Every time we have gendered unlockable hairstyles, a single Modern Aesthetics brochure unlocks both simultaneously. It's a single item in the system.

Likewise, look at the default hairstyles on a male and female standard character, and count backwards from the point where everyone starts getting unisex hairstyles. You'll find that the corresponding unlocked hairstyles are "the same style" in the list, allowing for the fact that races have different numbers of race-specific hairstyles at the front of the list.

I don't understand why the ears were removed? Like what why???

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Originally Posted by Kling-Klang

I don't understand why the ears were removed? Like what why???

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Because it takes effort to model the ears onto the hair lol

I guess the aesthetician will accidentally cut your ears off if you switch to any of these hairstyles.

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Originally Posted by Fredco191

I guess the aesthetician will accidentally cut your ears off if you switch to any of these hairstyles.

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Darn those scissors are sharp. Probably uses them in Ultimate.

Seriously given the reception and feedback appearing to be universally bad. I have yet to see anyone defend them they should bite the bullet and pull the hair from the update and expedite fixing it. Releasing it is just wrong at this point.

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Originally Posted by Fredco191

I guess the aesthetician will accidentally cut your ears off if you switch to any of these hairstyles.

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Damn... And one can't even truly blame him, after all it is us who brought him his tools of trade after he replaced them. Should've never accepted that quest. :(

Wait those are actually real?!? When I saw those on Discord and Reddit I thought I was looking at a badly photoshopped shitpost.

Hrothgars weren't the ones going around spreading comments about Yoshida and the rest of the team being all sort of -phobe because our gender counterpart hasn't been implemented. If anything the majority of Hrothgar players were patient for changes, especially when we knew Vieras would have stuff first due to popularity.

Hrothgars weren't the ones going around since Heavensward spamming FFXIV streams demanding for this race over and over to the point where nothing but walls of it littered the chat. Most people were, in fact, way more willing to wait for fixes before seeing femgars be implemented, so that those players wouldn't have to suffer through what we have to go through.

But apparently it really does feel like that's how we need to behave in order for Square to implement anything decent. Or even acknowledge that we're still the one race who needs to pay actual money to change hairstyles. I get we're animalistic, but Jandelaine is just as lazy if he refuses to learn how to shear manes.

As much as people think it is, this is not a meme race. Stop trying to push for Hrothgars to be one, especially after implementing content like Bozja where the tone was far more serious and less "anime" than half the content in this game. Even the Sorrow of Werylt was a fountain of memes in comparison. Especially after treating Hrothgar NPCs like noble and chivalrous. We are not your meme race, Square. We like Hrothgars because they're distinct, we like Hrothgars because thus far they've been portrayed as a serious race with a serious backstory. Not everyone is in on it because "hurr durr furry men". And stuff like this discourages people from playing this race you clearly put effort into implementing even harder. Make no mistake: a lot more people would play Hrothgar or stick to it if it weren't for all these limitations. It's not a meme race.

And if you still ask why we're upset? It's because we don't want new Hrothgar players to be met with an incomplete race with low-effort customization and a whole fanbase either treating them as a meme or disgruntled for years. It's bad PR and it just leaves a bad taste for the people already playing an otherwise cool race.

I have to say, i don’t think the whole hrothgar players are a minority is a valid excuse here. If that was the case, the devs wouldn’t be wasting resources on removing genderlock on outfits, because that appeases literally a specific minority, maybe 2% of players.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I have to say, i don’t think the whole hrothgar players are a minority is a valid excuse here. If that was the case, the devs wouldn’t be wasting resources on removing genderlock on outfits, because that appeases literally a specific minority, maybe 2% of players.

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I mean, to be fair, they aren't. sets are still genderlocked everywhere, even after they specifically said they wouldn't do it anymore. just look at the omega outfit, or the casual outfit, or the frontier outfit, or the neo-ishgardian set (that got reused in EW, still locked), and I'd even bet that the casual-ish outfit they showed at the LL will also be locked, which sucks

quick edit: i don't really care if they go back and remove the lock on a few older outfits when they insist on releasing new ones still locked. in any case, i'll stop here to not derail the thread

My brain will never not tell me this is an April fools joke.

Yoshi, if you're going to make a universally bad excuse for cutting off my ears, can i at least wear the calfskin rider's cap now. I will literally STFU if you do ������������

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

but Jandelaine is just as lazy if he refuses to learn how to shear manes.

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Jandelaine just wants to banish some "foul demons", and the devs just gave him the tools to do it. After all, you can neglect people only for so long until they give up. Although your patience start to encroach on saintly at this point, so it's no wonder it's starting to wear out.

The "minority" argument some people bring (not necessarily in this thread) really sits wrong with me. Regardless of what a thing is about, many tend to forget that 2-3% of a very large group of people are still a lot of people. This affects a lot of players. :/

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I have to say, i don’t think the whole hrothgar players are a minority is a valid excuse here. If that was the case, the devs wouldn’t be wasting resources on removing genderlock on outfits, because that appeases literally a specific minority, maybe 2% of players.

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Part of me thinks it'd have all been better if the graphics upgrades and character customisation limitations were addressed first, and then the newer races added (which may have meant waiting longer, running against any "got to get the WoW refugees to play" mentality), but I suspect the senior management was waiting to see how SHB did before releasing more resources for a longer lifespan... a lot of these issues are driven by the limitations of their current engine.

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Originally Posted by Minali

The "minority" argument some people bring (not necessarily in this thread) really sits wrong with me. Regardless of what a thing is about, many tend to forget that 2-3% of a very large group of people are still a lot of people. This affects a lot of players. :/

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Particularly for a race, where the intention is for people to play it. Any concerns about how many people would play it should've been considered upfront. They had some ways of estimating this and I believe they did it to address what Yoshi considered to be a lack of variety in options, so it's not like they went into this blind. So now that the decision is made, they should of course ensure the race is up to a good standard.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I have to say, i don’t think the whole hrothgar players are a minority is a valid excuse here. If that was the case, the devs wouldn’t be wasting resources on removing genderlock on outfits, because that appeases literally a specific minority, maybe 2% of players.

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They continue to be a minority because they continue to be extremely limited in every aspect. Hairstyles that nobody really asked for won't help them. If anything this is already a huge turn off and will do next to nothing to address their many problems. They appeal to a certain niche audience, sure, but there would be more of that audience if they weren't so neglected. If I didn't feel insulted just for playing the race I'd be playing one too.

Giving a race that is already limited as it is hairstyles that just don’t work for them, and also chopping off their ears completely with the hairstyles, seems a very very poor choice for the longevity of said race. If they want them to be a race that draws in people this seems a very bad stance to take.

Adding new races was a mistake. Vieras, Hothgrar... Both were half-assed.

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Originally Posted by Thi

Adding new races was a mistake. Vieras, Hothgrar... Both were half-assed.

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Oh adding them is fine. We have far worse that ends up being too forgettable. Blue Mage, Lord of Verminion, Umbrellas, Mahjong, whatever Fellowships were meant to be. It's not the races' faults, otherwise any race (even male Miqo'te or Femroes) would be a mistake because they weren't originally designed in 1.0. Adding content isn't a problem, especially not more race options for people to choose from.

It's that more work needs to be done to these clearly rushed out and incomplete races but they're not doing it. And then somehow expect people to settle for less.

Have to say i’m tired of seeing people trying to defend the devs and saying “they care.” No. If they really truly cared? They’d have came out with a community wide poll, with a list of hairstyles that hrothgar players would be in and they’d get to vote on them. Even if it was only 6 that would be chosen, at the very least it would be some that hrothgar players actually want and seem to look god. Not whatever mess this is where even they themselves couldn’t hold in their laughter. Yeah they care so much that’s why they were laughing right? People clowning around today.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Have to say i’m tired of seeing people trying to defend the devs and saying “they care.” No. If they really truly cared? They’d have came out with a community wide poll, with a list of hairstyles that hrothgar players would be in and they’d get to vote on them. Even if it was only 6 that would be chosen, at the very least it would be some that hrothgar players actually want and seem to look god. Not whatever mess this is where even they themselves couldn’t hold in their laughter. Yeah they care so much that’s why they were laughing right? People clowning around today.

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I really have to wonder who made the decisions on the hairstyles. What sort of data were they looking at? Did they look at that Karen hair and thought "yeah, EVERYONE uses that, everyone will love it and is clamoring for it!" Meanwhile, sitting here with my coffee browsing 5chan with my limited Japanese knowledge watching them all rip the hairs apart as "ugly, creepy" "looks like a wig".

Remember when Yoshi stated he'd give hrothgar exclusive, beastly hairstyles?

Pepperidge Farm remembers.

i'm honestly just disgusted beyond all reason. i picked Hrothgar because i've wanted to play a beastial race in an MMO for a long time (i never played WoW, and while i did play GW2, the Charr were left to flounder in the same way the Hrothgar are) not only do they look cool, but they have interesting lore. So imagine my surprised when they came with such a massive number of limitations. I had contemplated going back to Hyur, but Yoshi-P promised they would work to fix the problems with the race (like separating the hairstyles from the face so we don't have to use a Fantasia to change it) and i believed him. So i've sat here, patiently waiting for the day where I could freely swap hairstyles because i wasn't going to spend $10 just to do that. Nearly three years after the release of Hrothgar, they finally start hyping us up for "new Hrothgar Hairstyles" and i started to get excited, thinking they not only fixed the problem, but were giving us some new hairstyles on top of it.

I'm sure you don't need to imagine the amount of shock, disappointment and sheer disgust i felt when they showed off those hairstyles with the butchered ears and had the gall to ask us to PRETEND like the ears are hidden inside the hair. On top of that they made no mention of fixing the hairstyles that are attached to the faces, which are a major point of contention for the hrothgar as they are the ONLY race that is punished for wanting to change their hairstyle and are forced to spend real money to make the changes. If this had been an April Fools joke it was a terrible one at the expense of Hrothgar players who have waited so long to be acknowledged and to have their problems addressed. The fact it isn't a joke makes this a hundred times worse. They made so many promises to us and then spit in our faces with this disgraceful showing of how much of an afterthought we Hrothgar players are to them. I'm finally at a point where i'm just ready to give up on Hrothgar and go back to being a Hyur. I am tired of being treated like my time doesn't matter. that my problems don't matter, that any grievances i have don't matter because i play a race that is unpopular because of the very problems that plague it.

I've had my hopes up, looking forward to possibly changing from catgorl into a female Hrothgar when they come out, but seeing the treatment here for our current Hrothgars is absolutely heartbreaking. I can't fathom why they'd think this looks better than having ears clipping through it. I've played another beloved MMO for 10+ years with my long hair clipping completely through my back when I look up, it's literally never bothered me. It's just... such a non-issue. Clipping is going to always exist in some sort of way. These hairstyles would look so much better if they didn't look like the poor ears got cut off for them. It's still hard to believe it's not some sick, twisted april fool's joke.

Now I'm starting to dread what female hrothgar will be, after wanting so badly for them to be decent.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Have to say i’m tired of seeing people trying to defend the devs and saying “they care.” No. If they really truly cared? They’d have came out with a community wide poll, with a list of hairstyles that hrothgar players would be in and they’d get to vote on them. Even if it was only 6 that would be chosen, at the very least it would be some that hrothgar players actually want and seem to look god. Not whatever mess this is where even they themselves couldn’t hold in their laughter. Yeah they care so much that’s why they were laughing right? People clowning around today.

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See, I hope they learn from this because that is actually a fantastic idea. Just like someone mentioned earlier, it seems that they're choosing hairstyles for hrothgar based off of what they give to viera, but you cannot give hairstyles that were OBVIOUSLY designed for females in mind (2B and Karen hair) and then be like "wow, this looks great on a guy"

A community poll should have been done in the first place. The backlash would be almost non-existent if they did that. Watching even people who are against hrothgars at the very least come to their defense is absolutely hilarious

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Originally Posted by Skyborne

I really have to wonder who made the decisions on the hairstyles.

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It honestly feels like malicious compliance at this point.

You know, what really baffles me? If those races can't use headgear properly why don't make the most of the situation and put some really distinct hairstyles.
Specially Hrothgar, speaking for myself, I didn't pick the bestial race for hairstyles made primarily for human races.
If that's too hard, why don't ask the people who plays Hrothgars?

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Originally Posted by Akimori

it seems that they're choosing hairstyles for hrothgar based off of what they give to viera

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I don't think they're choosing hairstyles for any particular race. Those are just the most recent ones to have been made, and probably had the Viera/Hrothgar versions made at the same time. The choices aren't really the best ones for Viera either, but – especially if you assume this is step 1 of getting everything released over time – there are simpler ways of of looking at it like where the choices come from in the system.

So are we absolutely positive, 100%, that the new hairstyles weren't an April Fool's joke? Like they ARE going to add new hairstyles, but those aren't it? Just asking cause I could see them doing it as a troll.

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Originally Posted by Amariel34

So are we absolutely positive, 100%, that the new hairstyles weren't an April Fool's joke? Like they ARE going to add new hairstyles, but those aren't it? Just asking cause I could see them doing it as a troll.

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if it were an April Fools joke, they would have broken it long before now. That's what makes this so devastating, and infuriating. I didn't wait 3 years for you to fix Hrothgar, just to have you chop off my ear and give me the FUGLIEST looking female hairs imaginable. I don't know of a single Hrothgar player who wanted the damn 2B hair. i heard tons and tons of requests for the Windcaller hairstyle, but not a one for 2B.

I hope for a hairstyle design contest with a hard focus on Hrothgar and Viera. Obviously all of the races but I'm not sure how else to express my point so it's just going to be worded like that.
I like the oddly named "karen" (which I think its weird seeing my own name thrown around in such a negative way) but it is clearly a female oriented hairstyle and even on men, it's still feminine.
Gender inclusive does not have to end in a result that upsets the player base of Hrothgar.
I feel these hairstyles show how out of touch they are with their player base when it comes to character customization. And some of it may be lack of interest in creating these hairstyles since player input varies so much.
For players who want Lyse, Hilda and Hien's ponytails (bc they are the best designed ones) yoshi-p is aware these are often requested hairstyles but 4+ years later and they ignore the requests bc there "isn't enough interest in them" when really it's just people saying "you have enough" but enough doesn't = good. Quality over quantity, not the other way around.
Here we are today with Hrothgar beating their heads against a wall as they become the meme and butt of the joke and still stuck with 0 quality and 0 quantity.
"they're the least played" isn't an excuse. Charr players dealt with the same problems and still do in GW2.

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Originally Posted by Amariel34

So are we absolutely positive, 100%, that the new hairstyles weren't an April Fool's joke? Like they ARE going to add new hairstyles, but those aren't it? Just asking cause I could see them doing it as a troll.

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If this is a troll, then they sure picked the worst thing to make fun of. And as I mentioned before, Hrothgars aren't a meme race, and no one in their right mind wants them to turn it into one. We've been waiting for a long time for changes, we expected a modicum of quality, not the world's worst Colgate ad or have us become Van Gogh all of a sudden. This isn't about sense of humour, it's simply in bad taste.

If this isn't a troll, then I sure hope Square acknowledges how disappointed people were with these announcements. And I'm putting it kindly.

Considering no one came out to shout "April Fool's!!", odds are it's none of that. Also, it's already about 2 days after April 1st in Japan at this point, so the chances of it actually being a joke are getting slimmer by the second.

What we really need now is for Yoshi P to confirm that this isn't an April Fools joke. It looks like a lot of people are still assuming that that's what this was. (and in the small chance that this is a joke, apologize, because it's not landing well)

And we need more transparency on what the actual "issue" is. Stream it to us, have one of your hair designers share screen and show us why the only solution was to remove Hrothgar ears, then show us why that isn't the case for Au'ra horns or Miqo ears

I would also like them to comment on the race specific hairstyles that they had mentioned

Lastly, I would be curious to know if they, as the devs of the game, feel content with what they showed

They really should clarify if the sneakpeak of those hairstyles is meant as a April joke. Because it feels like a joke.

When SE mentioned that they would implement more hair for Hrothgar I was positive that they would either add more race appropriate styles or adjust existing styles so that they fit and look good on the headmodels. But this...? Even though it is not the end of the world, it still makes me speechless. Just what happened to SE's love for details and quality?

Okay, was just asking. Those images just seem too poor quality to be real, which is why I was asking. If they are real, down to the ear removal, then yah that's a huge problem.

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Originally Posted by Schwarzwind

They really should clarify if the sneakpeak of those hairstyles is meant as a April joke. Because it feels like a joke.

When SE mentioned that they would implement more hair for Hrothgar I was positive that they would either add more race appropriate styles or adjust existing styles so that they fit and look good on the headmodels. But this...? Even though it is not the end of the world, it still makes me speechless. Just what happened to SE's love for details and quality?

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It’s what happens when they get popular and have a cult of a fanbase. They realized they don’t need to put in that much effort as most people will brush it all off eventually or forgive them or just silence anyone who criticizes them. I always said the community would end up being the downfall of the game and it’s looking like i was right. Decline in quality of everything and content while the game continues to make more and more money.