Final Fantasy XIV Hot Takes

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Originally Posted by Snorky

I wish to apologize to you, I looked up toxic positivity and it is real. I just never knew it was. I will say people take it too far though. I happen to enjoy FFXIV and my reaction is one of defence when people constantly critize this game. Sure it has faults sure things need to be worked on. But you have to admit some people just critize to jump on the band wagon and this thread is a good example. My hot take is: I'm going to read another thread with a more upbeat take.

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That is called "white knighting" and there is nothing more detrimental to a game then a horde of white knights defending even poorly done systems.

You can be critical and not be negative. It's actually really good for a game, or anything really, because it can help to improve it. But when you defend a game, no matter what, you are doing nothing but help pull that game down. Not everyone is perfect and if you love something and that thing is being taken in a really bad direction or if things get lazy or half hearted or whatever, its much better to step back and point that out, rather than grab your sword and shield. This is why we have such mediocrity in a lot of things these days, Endwalker alone is proof of that and the white knights who are staunchly defending it against even well thought out criticism, are the biggest part of that problem.

The design of the Au'ra was a major disappointment. When SE first said they were going to add a half dragon/half human playable race, I was initially excited for it thinking that it would look like the half dragon race from D&D or the bipedal half dragons from WoW. But no, the Au'ra just turned out to be a human with horns, a tail, and some scales. Very lame design.

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Originally Posted by drtasteyummy

hot take if do not understanding the joke of hot takes in the context of MMO criticism then boast about how you know a dictionary definition you should not be allowed to use the forum

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boast??

Its simply a link the the definition

what are you on ,to suggest I shouldn't be allowed to use these forums , you spiteful little gatekeeper.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

A lot of this is in peoples heads and how they've been socialized, I think you definitely can make a lot of this stuff work for men too the problem is a lot of people are very resistant to anything that on first impression they think is '' weird ''.
If they managed to get past that initial reaction tho they might actually end up liking it.

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Maybe. Men generally don't like wearing girly/feminine things, but women tend to be ok with wearing feminine or masculine clothing. A lot of complaint against feminine clothing stems from the fact guys feel like they have fewer clothing options since femnine clothing is completely off the table for them (because it doesn't look good on men most of the time). Yeah, it's technically available for guys to wear, but most guys aren't going to touch it - might as well not even exist as an option in the minds of most men. Meanwhile, people can pick either femninine or masculine clothing for women since they look good wearing whatever.

It's true fashion sensibilities have changed over the years. But this is just the way things are right now. So the men of today, not from however many years ago in the distant past, would like to have their tastes catered to as well. I don't think there's disdain towards femininity. I just think guys generally think feminine clothing looks weird on them, and I don't mean that in a sexist way. It just visually looks off. But don't get me wrong, I do think clothing in this game should be unisex so people have the freedom to choose what they want to wear.

I'm still waiting on some throwback outfits from FFX. Jecht's tattoos and Seymour's open-chested robe are calling my name, not to mention all the other outfits in that game.

I doubt we'll actually get em, buuut they did use Anima in this expansion.

Everything being a reference to a previous Final Fantasy game is very off putting to people who are not franchise fanboys and haven't played every FF game since the beginning of time.

The ff14 healers community is one of the most detestable communities I've ever seen in an MMO.

My "hot take" is that large amounts of gamers have a very unhealthy relationship with their game or gaming in general, to the point that such an unhealthy relationship is uncomfortably close to a perceived norm and if you mention it people look at you like you grew heads.

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

What's with the antagonism towards raiders? We're all just trying to have fun playing the same game here.

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Competitive raiders (as well as competitive PvPers) can often be your quintessential loud minority and disproportionately affect games compared to how small their scene actually is. They can damage communities with their streaming influence. Historically, they have also been highly toxic.

Melee is no longer any harder than a ranged physical when the bosses hit boxes are massive enough to resolve all mechanics in melee range. Likewise uptime isn't a thing because of uptime strats whenever possible.

Caster never had been harder than ranged physical. The fights are scripted. Prepositioning is pretty damn easy.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

Everything being a reference to a previous Final Fantasy game is very off putting to people who are not franchise fanboys and haven't played every FF game since the beginning of time.

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The level of fan service is crazy. I've said this before in other threads, but I hope if ever there is another FF MMO, it tries to create and maintain its own identity vs. using past FF titles as a crutch. Then you have cross-overs which are shoe-horned into the game and get full raid series (looking at you, Nier). Makes no sense.

I know that there are FF staples that are generally found in most of their games, Chocobos, airships, Cid, Moogles, job types, certain mobs, etc, but XIV has gone far past the usual items.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

The level of fan service is crazy. I've said this before in other threads, but I hope if ever there is another FF MMO, it tries to create and maintain its own identity vs. using past FF titles as a crutch. Then you have cross-overs which are shoe-horned into the game and get full raid series (looking at you, Nier). Makes no sense.

I know that there are a few FF staples that are generally found in most of their games, Chocobos, airships, Cid, Moogles, job types, certain mobs, etc, but XIV has gone far past the usual items.

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This is why they go overboard with the refs. This is what the average public does:
https://youtu.be/OfJRm0WssOE

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

The level of fan service is crazy. I've said this before in other threads, but I hope if ever there is another FF MMO, it tries to create and maintain its own identity vs. using past FF titles as a crutch. Then you have cross-overs which are shoe-horned into the game and get full raid series (looking at you, Nier). Makes no sense.

I know that there are FF staples that are generally found in most of their games, Chocobos, airships, Cid, Moogles, job types, certain mobs, etc, but XIV has gone far past the usual items.

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The main story is still pretty solidly original. Looking at the most recent expansions, all of the MSQ content has been original except:

* EW: Loporrits, Anima, Magus Sisters, Ragnarok, I guess to some extent Zodiark and Venat even though they are references in name only.
* ShB: Crystal Tower, Dwarves, Hades, Warrior of Light, Angelo
* SB: Doma, Lakshmi, Omega v. Shinryu
* HW: Midgardsormr, Knights of the Round, Bismarck, Matoya

Still some 90+ percent of the worldbuilding is fairly original and unique to FF XIV. Yeah we have some combined elements like a massive empire ala VI/XII, sci-fi elements ala VII/VIII, job system ala III/V, and some core systems that draw heavily from popular titles like the materia system(which imo should be dropped). But it's the derivativeness is not as bad as people make it out to be.

Where the impression that XIV is not original stems from primarily the "side content" (which counterintuitively ends up providing the majority of the gameplay as each expansion's respective endgame):

* HW: Alexander raids (IX/XI), Warring Triad Trials (VI), to some extent the Shadows of Mhach raids
* SB: Omega raids (V/VI/I), Hell's Lid trials (Legends), Dalmasca raids (XII)
* ShB: Eden raids (VIII), Weapon trials (VII), Nier raids
* EW: Pandaemonium raids (II)

I think it is fine. I also think that a wholly original FF MMO would tank because it is the intertextuality that appeals to more players. And since XIV is like the uber-intertextual-FF I don't see any reason for SE to try to remake the same phenomenon again from the ground up.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

The level of fan service is crazy. I've said this before in other threads, but I hope if ever there is another FF MMO, it tries to create and maintain its own identity vs. using past FF titles as a crutch. Then you have cross-overs which are shoe-horned into the game and get full raid series (looking at you, Nier). Makes no sense.

I know that there are FF staples that are generally found in most of their games, Chocobos, airships, Cid, Moogles, job types, certain mobs, etc, but XIV has gone far past the usual items.

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I honestly don't mind the temporary crossovers, they can be fun. But they leave in the end.

But you did use a key word...CRUTCH. it's like they are terrified to do original content. I mean when they announced the EW alliance raids were going to actually be original it was a big deal and selling point to them. ORIGINAL should be the norm, not the notable exception.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

This is why they go overboard with the refs. This is what the average public does:
https://youtu.be/OfJRm0WssOE

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Sigh, you just don't understand. It was a chocobo, but it was red. And the moogle's name had Mog in it. Sigh, you just don't get it. /s

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Originally Posted by SeverianLyonesse

Where the impression that XIV is not original stems from primarily the "side content" (which counterintuitively ends up providing the majority of the gameplay as each expansion's respective endgame):

* HW: Alexander raids (IX/XI), Warring Triad Trials (VI), to some extent the Shadows of Mhach raids
* SB: Omega raids (V/VI/I), Hell's Lid trials (Legends), Dalmasca raids (XII)
* ShB: Eden raids (VIII), Weapon trials (VII), Nier raids
* EW: Pandaemonium raids (II)

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The Omega raids were just the worst in that regard. I've not played those games, so the whole thing just felt like a mish-mash of random unrelated concepts, stuffed into some nonsensical tournament arc.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

I honestly don't mind the temporary crossovers, they can be fun. But they leave in the end.

But you did use a key word...CRUTCH. it's like they are terrified to do original content. I mean when they announced the EW alliance raids were going to actually be original it was a big deal and selling point to them. ORIGINAL should be the norm, not the notable exception.

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It has been stated several times over that FFXIV is an FF theme park MMO. It has also been stated that it is the center of the FF universe. They aren't terrified. Being an FF reference playground IS and has always been FFXIV's identity.

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Originally Posted by MidnightEquinox

Competitive raiders (as well as competitive PvPers) can often be your quintessential loud minority and disproportionately affect games compared to how small their scene actually is. They can damage communities with their streaming influence. Historically, they have also been highly toxic.

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Any fringe group can be a loud and toxic minority. Here, we have a louder and more toxic casual minority than competitive, pvp or raider. Which is why SE quickly nerfs everything even slightly challenging and offers nearly all raid items from other sources. Extreme mounts are put in mog tome events, replicas of the raid gear sets are available so they can glam them, even the relic has suffered from this, which is why the relic line of the past 2 expansions has just been a series of fates instead of anything relatively engaging of fun (even that has been the source of many tears, since ppl still thought it was still too hard, even when it was current). Neither fringe group, casual or raider, want balanced content. They want ALL content made for them and them only and here anything they can't watch netflix while they run is deemed unacceptable. Which SE caves to at an alarming rate.

Neither side is good for the game and its players, but one is always catered to over the other it seems and here they cater to the very toxic, casual minority.

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Originally Posted by Remish

It has been stated several times over that FFXIV is an FF theme park MMO. It has also been stated that it is the center of the FF universe. They aren't terrified, being an FF reference playground IS FFXIV's identity. It's always been intended that way.

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Doesn't make it less of a terrible and unimaginative design philosophy...in fact it makes it worse.

But the fanboys love it.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

Doesn't make it less of a terrible and unimaginative design philosophy...in fact it makes it worse.

But the fanboys love it.

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You're entitled to your opinion but the games sales and population strongly suggest otherwise. Something about their design philosophy is working wither you agree with it or not.

Well, FFXIV is kind of supposed to appeal to fans of the series and people who are into "fantasy" in general. The familiarity that draws upon things from other games helps make it a more palatable experience, as opposed to something entirely foreign.

Creative Business Unit III however is more than capable of creating their own original worlds, and I'm especially interested in FFXVI's setting because it seems to be a largely original medieval setting other than the aspect of the classic FF summons.

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Originally Posted by Remish

You're entitled to your opinion but the games sales and population strongly suggest otherwise. Something about their design philosophy is working wither you agree with it or not.

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cheap fan service appeals to simple minds. For reference see all the gushing over EWs weak story.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

cheap fan service appeals to simple minds. For reference see all the gushing over EWs weak story.

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Cheap fanservice is also what made this game bloom. Take it or leave it. It is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Remish

Cheap fanservice is also what made this game bloom. Take it or leave it. It is what it is.

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I don't remember them overdoing the fanservice during HW. That came later during SB. :^)

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Originally Posted by Remish

Cheap fanservice is also what made this game bloom. Take it or leave it. It is what it is.

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LOL

You think the games sudden growth spurt was because FF franchise fans suddenly discovered it 10 years after the fact?

But I'm finished arguing with you...since it's obvious you're the type I'm talking about.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

No one cares if you play a Female Roegadyn or Elezen

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I care. My main's a Duskwight male and my alt's a Sea Wolf female and I love seeing others of "my kind" around. Given how uncommon we are, any time I see a few of us together in the same place and at the same time, it's cool to me.

My characters, and by extension me, aren't any better than others, but that rarity does tend to breed a tighter community feel than being One Among the Masses.




My hot takes-

I like the housing ward system. Instanced houses in the form of expanded apartment floor plans should be a thing, but I don't want them to stop making wards.

The 2.0 sub-class requirements for opening up jobs was better than the system we have now.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

I don't remember them overdoing the fanservice during HW. That came later during SB. :^)

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Over doing is subjective and in the eyes of the beholder. Most of HW's fan service was in name. Midgard, Knights of the Round, Alexander, Shinyru, Omega,The Warning Triad, Moggles, Calcabrina and her music and minions. The Collections edition with the Baron Helmet & Earrings, Kain Minion. The theme of Dragoon that expansion was an entire throwback reference to FF4 and so was Dark Knight.

I can name more. The references and fan services are there in every expansion. How much of it you pick up is entirely on how much of it you have personally picked up on. It's definitely there if you know what to look for. Always has been, always will be. Let's not pretend like certain expansions over do it more than others because that's just nit picking.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

cheap fan service appeals to simple minds. For reference see all the gushing over EWs weak story.

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EW was an amazing story and I've played no other FF game. :)

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

LOL

You think the games sudden growth spurt was because FF franchise fans suddenly discovered it 10 years after the fact?

But I'm finished arguing with you...since it's obvious you're the type I'm talking about.

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If you're talking about the recent growth, then no. Growth back in ARR and HW then yes. It's not an argument when it's straight facts. No matter how much you dislike it or dismiss it doesn't make it any less reality. The fan service isn't going away. FFXIV wouldn't be FFXIV without it.
Also, you took what I said out of context MASSIVELY. No where did I imply the recent growth was related to it. This game has been growing for 10 years long before what happened last year. So yes, the fan service has helped. It's what hooked the original wave of FFXIV players.

And if I'm the type you're talking about, then I'll wear that badge high and mighty with honor. I'm proud to be a simple minded type as you put it and there is no shame in it.

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Originally Posted by Remish

Over doing is subjective and in the eyes of the beholder. Most of HW's fan service was in name. Midgard, Knights of the Round, Alexander, Shinyru, Omega,The Warning Triad, Moggles, Calcabrina and her music and minions. The Collections edition with the Baron Helmet & Earrings, Kain Minion. The theme of Dragoon that expansion was an entire throwback reference to FF4 and so was Dark Knight.

I can name more. The references and fan services are there in every expansion. How much of it you pick up is entirely on how much of it you have personally picked up on. It's definitely there if you know what to look for. Always has been, always will be. Let's not pretend like certain expansions over do it more than others because that's just nit picking.

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It was a joke. The joke was that the game bloomed during HW and has been falling since then. That was a joke. Long live Final Fantasy™!

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Well, FFXIV is kind of supposed to appeal to fans of the series and people who are into "fantasy" in general. The familiarity that draws upon things from other games helps make it a more palatable experience, as opposed to something entirely foreign.

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Yeah it's kinda had the opposite effect for me as someone who's never played another FF game and isn't likely to start, uh... ever, probably. I don't even know half the things that are references ARE references unless somebody points it out, and it's led to a few times where things felt a little out of place or where a friend got super excited about something for, to me, no comprehensible reason lmao

I think that there have been times where they could have done a bit of a better job about making lore from other games fit in a way that makes it feel like it actually does fit as part of this world, and not just homage to a different one.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

It was a joke. The joke was that the game bloomed during HW and has been falling since then. That was a joke. Long live Final Fantasy™!

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My apologies. It was difficult for me to tell. Must have went over my head. Sorry about that.

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

LOL

You think the games sudden growth spurt was because FF franchise fans suddenly discovered it 10 years after the fact?

But I'm finished arguing with you...since it's obvious you're the type I'm talking about.

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The things that they drew upon from the franchise appeal to a wide variety of people, from locations to characters, jobs, and themes. Ishgard is our stereotypical fantasy castle-and is one of the most beloved locations in game. It's roughly comparable to Castle Alexandria in terms of how much of a landmark and symbol it has become of their respective games. Doma, a location briefly visited in FFVI was expanded upon along with the neighbouring city of Kugane and helped make Stormblood's otherwise insufferable storyline tolerable due to the inclusion of the goings-on in the east.

When it comes to villains notably, there are several similarities between Emet-Selch and Ardyn from FFXV-a gem of a villain utterly wasted on a subpar game that was only "complete" years after its initial launch date. Several jobs nowadays aren't shying away from drawing upon inspiration from specific characters either, with Paladin well on its way to being a Holy Knight like Agrias from Tactics. Meanwhile, in nearly every Final Fantasy game there's a pivot near the end towards more abstract themes like hope vs despair, etc. When it happened in Endwalker I was not surprised, and in fact felt thankful that there was a little bit more going on to Meteion as opposed to more random final bosses like Necron.

While we probably could have gotten this far by being wholly original, man did it help that there was a plethora of material from the series to take inspiration from.

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

Any fringe group can be a loud and toxic minority.

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Casuals in an MMORPG are not a fringe group. They're not a minority. It's not relative to the population of a select community space, it's relative to the whole population.

I'll listen to the first person in the "SE makes things too easy" camp that doesn't dramatically exaggerate things. I can't find common ground with someone who says the content in the game is all doable while watching Netflix when that was definitely not the case in some runs I did the other day.

I don't know what you mean by "balanced content".

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Originally Posted by MidnightEquinox

My "hot take" is that large amounts of gamers have a very unhealthy relationship with their game or gaming in general, to the point that such an unhealthy relationship is uncomfortably close to a perceived norm and if you mention it people look at you like you grew heads.
Competitive raiders (as well as competitive PvPers) can often be your quintessential loud minority and disproportionately affect games compared to how small their scene actually is. They can damage communities with their streaming influence. Historically, they have also been highly toxic.

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Look I don't know about any of this insiduous influence of hardcore streamer stuff, I just like being challenged by difficult fights.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

The design of the Au'ra was a major disappointment. When SE first said they were going to add a half dragon/half human playable race, I was initially excited for it thinking that it would look like the half dragon race from D&D or the bipedal half dragons from WoW. But no, the Au'ra just turned out to be a human with horns, a tail, and some scales. Very lame design.

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this isn't even a hot take its fact. Also its Au Ra. no apostrophe, thats the kitties

I have to use mods to get the dragon lady I was promised.

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

Look I don't know about any of this insiduous influence of hardcore streamer stuff, I just like being challenged by difficult fights.

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I'm not sure how that relates to my point.

Since we're still talking things borrowed...

I'm gonna say they did Roeg dirty by not giving them the glorious tails of their Galka predecessors.

Hot Take: Stomblood was better then Endwalker.

Roegadyn give me Inquisitor Mozgus energy and face 1 Vieras leads me to believe the Grinch is going to steal there Christmas :P (another hot take)

Face 3 & Face 1 Miqo's give me uncanny valley vibes. Face 2 & Face 4 all the way, babyyy