Has the WoW crowd taken over now?

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Originally Posted by JTWrenn

Don't let people be horrible

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agree!

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Originally Posted by JTWrenn

if you are the tank and people are not playing nice let them die, same for healers.

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...huh? but you said don't let people be horrible?

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

Going through PF the last couple days, I see lots of “advertising” like:

“4k dps = instakick”
“no clowns please”
“2 fails = kick”
“know what to do there will be no talk or stay out”
“I’m doing this for 2 days please no more failures”

Generally stuff I would typically expect to see in WoW, also noticed a harshening of tone in duties like alliance raids.

It’s sad that the same thing has arrived here now.

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Groups asking for people to have high dps and know fights has been around for as long as the Party Finder.

Stop creating a toxic environment for newer players, this is frankly disgusting. And ironic for the community that considers itself an exception because of how non toxic it is.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

Groups asking for people to have high dps and know fights has been around for as long as the Party Finder.

Stop creating a toxic environment for newer players, this is frankly disgusting. And ironic for the community that considers itself an exception because of how non toxic it is.

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Yeah this is nothing new. I remember zurvan groups in HW saying skip soar or disban. You typically do not need a parse to tell which party members are bad because they are typically the ones dying and doing mechanics incorrect. There are plenty of groups that have a 3 strike rule where they will replace you if you mess up 3 times. None of these things are new. OP is either a new player or has not really touched PF much.

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

Going through PF the last couple days, I see lots of “advertising” like:

“4k dps = instakick”
“no clowns please”
“2 fails = kick”
“know what to do there will be no talk or stay out”
“I’m doing this for 2 days please no more failures”

Generally stuff I would typically expect to see in WoW, also noticed a harshening of tone in duties like alliance raids.

It’s sad that the same thing has arrived here now.

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4k dps equals instant report because that sounds like a dps meter that is not allowed. Honestly though people wanna put "requirements" like that up fine i would just hope the community just opt not to request to join the group. I personally wouldnt

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Originally Posted by Rinhi

agree!



...huh? but you said don't let people be horrible?

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You missed the <>'ed "other" before "people".

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

Kicking without word is also reportable as it is considered harassment. Also people don't join to get hard carried. Many people in this game (an insane amount) play on console and do not have a dps meter to gauge their dps.

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Even if it was reportable, which it isnt, people could just disband party and invite everyone else again except you. Are you then also being harrassed? Sorry, you cant force every PF to carry you. Sometimes it's just straight up not possible as a group with a dps not cracking the 4k mark will just make the dps checks impossible to meet.

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Originally Posted by xenahawk

4k dps equals instant report because that sounds like a dps meter that is not allowed. Honestly though people wanna put "requirements" like that up fine i would just hope the community just opt not to request to join the group. I personally wouldnt

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This is an example of the toxicity this game has.

If you don't want to play with that group don't, but jumping to "report them they need to be banned" is way more toxic than this group wanting to meet a dps check.

Setting performance expectations for a PF group isn't harassment, toxicity, or anything else "bad". It's simply letting people who may be interested in joining there are minimum expectations for that specific group. It's respectful in its own way as it helps prevent hard feelings from people who can't meet those expectations and get kicked because of it. Setting and communicating expectations for any group activity is fundamental to the success of that activity and should be encouraged, whether that's certain performance expectations or simply "Learning party, be patient, quit after 5 wipes".

With that said, I believe the use of parsers to be wrong. Yoshi-P has clearly stated that using parsers to exclude players from content is against the rules. It's not disrespectful and toxic, but it is exclusionary, which is something the dev team want to avoid. Unfortunately, at this point such add-ons are out there and people do use them to exclude others. Everyone involved in PF needs to show more respect for each other.

Those who do use them need to respect those who don't and avoid behavior such as name-calling or aggressive language toward those who choose not to use parsers. Those who don't use them need to respect that some people do use them, respect that if certain performance expectations are clearly stated in the PF listing, one needs to be able to meet them or not join that group.

Willingly avoiding PF listings that appear to not fit ones abilities or outlook is the best way to prevent hard feelings on both sides. That's all there is to it.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

This is an example of the toxicity this game has.

If you don't want to play with that group don't, but jumping to "report them they need to be banned" is way more toxic than this group wanting to meet a dps check.

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If they are requiring a spacific dps then they are using something against TOS. Nothing toxic about it plain and simple. You want to use them fine use them but you want to announce it then you deserve what you get. whether you agree with final fantasy's addon policy or not its there for a reason. I agree setting spacific goals is not reportable and their own perogitive but when your saying minimum dps# how do you think they see that?

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Originally Posted by xenahawk

If they are requiring a spacific dps then they are using something against TOS. Nothing toxic about it plain and simple. You want to use them fine use them but you want to announce it then you deserve what you get. whether you agree with final fantasy's addon policy or not its there for a reason. I agree setting spacific goals is not reportable and their own perogitive but when your saying minimum dps# how do you think they see that?

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The game itself is requiring dps targets and the current savage tier is just not clearable with a dps not cracking the 4k mark. I obviously would advise against posting it in a PF description but the reason for that is people like you who use the ToS as a free pass to be vindictive.

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Originally Posted by xenahawk

If they are requiring a spacific dps then they are using something against TOS. Nothing toxic about it plain and simple. You want to use them fine use them but you want to announce it then you deserve what you get. whether you agree with final fantasy's addon policy or not its there for a reason. I agree setting spacific goals is not reportable and their own perogitive but when your saying minimum dps# how do you think they see that?

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Again it is more toxic to want to have them reported and banned for using a parser than requiring a minimum DPS from a DPS that is already required to clear the fight. ToS is just your excuse for this behaviour.

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Originally Posted by xenahawk

If they are requiring a spacific dps then they are using something against TOS. Nothing toxic about it plain and simple. You want to use them fine use them but you want to announce it then you deserve what you get. whether you agree with final fantasy's addon policy or not its there for a reason. I agree setting spacific goals is not reportable and their own perogitive but when your saying minimum dps# how do you think they see that?

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No idea what you are talking about. Basic addition and division aren't difficult. And I got pretty good at quickly adding numbers in the battle log together.

Not buying it. People arent going to do all that for everyone in the group to see who may or may not be doing the full damage in between fights when you have x amount of time to clear it. But like i said you figure what you want.

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

Again it is more toxic to want to have them reported and banned for using a parser than requiring a minimum DPS from a DPS that is already required to clear the fight. ToS is just your excuse for this behaviour.

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I disagree with you on that because if they are willing to use a dps meter to single out other players in that way its a very thin line to abusing other players in general. Again there is a very good reason WHY the dont allow DPS meters in the game if they did i would not have any issue with that put on in the info when looking for a group. Dont get me wrong i still think its in poor taste but no again if you have issue with it not being allowed play a game that allows them.

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Originally Posted by xenahawk

I disagree with you on that because if they are willing to use a dps meter to single out other players in that way its a very thin line to abusing other players in general. Again there is a very good reason WHY the dont allow DPS meters in the game if they did i would not have any issue with that put on in the info when looking for a group. Dont get me wrong i still think its in poor taste but no again if you have issue with it not being allowed play a game that allows them.

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It is not abusing players to have an expectation of performance when going into higher end content. I could say it is abusing players when some one goes into a high end raid and does not know how to play there class at all. The means me and 6 other players have been abuse because our time was wasted? But to many simple giving an expectation of performance is considered gatekeeping and not allowed.

If a party stated progression after x mechanic, is it right to join that party with no prior experience of the fight?

If the game didn't require a certain total DPS to complete a fight, than I would say parsers are not needed. How ever this game has DPS checks. If they don't want people parsing than make completing the stone sea and sky check a requirement before unlocking savage content.

But your answer will always be it is against ToS so it's bad. So I really do not know why I waste my time even acknowledging your posts.

Something I would complain about is groups setting there item level to way higher than needed with the assumption that means the player will be better.

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Originally Posted by xenahawk

I disagree with you on that because if they are willing to use a dps meter to single out other players in that way its a very thin line to abusing other players in general.

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No need to talk about dps numbers at any point.

Party description: going for clear, please know the whole fight and don't make too many mistakes with the mechanics or your job.

Message before being dismissed from the party: some people are not ready to clear this fight so I will make adjustments to the party before we try again.

You just need to phrase it in the typical passive aggressive FFXIV style of saying no names while everyone knows who it is. No one gets singled out or abused.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

No need to talk about dps numbers at any point.

Party description: going for clear, please know the whole fight and don't make too many mistakes with the mechanics or your job.

Message before being dismissed from the party: some people are not ready to clear this fight so I will make adjustments to the party before we try again.

You just need to phrase it in the typical passive aggressive FFXIV style of saying no names while everyone knows who it is. No one gets singled out or abused.

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But how does the underperforming player know what they're doing wrong? It's not toxic to tell someone that their DPS is too low for a group to clear, especially when certain mechanics are just DPS checks. If the game had no DPS checks, I could understand, but it does and therefore low DPS will cause problems. Square really need to have a proper think about this and draw a better line that stops harassment while allowing legitimate use of these tools.

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Originally Posted by Johners

But how does the underperforming player know what they're doing wrong?

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they don't, as telling someone they're not doing well is considered harassment
just gotta hope that they get the hint when they get kicked from parties/they reform without them that they're doing it wrong
(granted, I don't think this is ever enforced and people will most likely gladly tell the underperforming player what they're doing wrong, but considering the attitude of some people on the forum here, they'd probably actually report those trying to help)

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Originally Posted by Johners

But how does the underperforming player know what they're doing wrong? It's not toxic to tell someone that their DPS is too low for a group to clear, especially when certain mechanics are just DPS checks. If the game had no DPS checks, I could understand, but it does and therefore low DPS will cause problems. Square really need to have a proper think about this and draw a better line that stops harassment while allowing legitimate use of these tools.

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Ideally the person that gets removed just asks "Is there something I can do better?" but people are terrified of bad actors using report to be able to respond with anything useful. Ex, "you should work on your uptime" "your rotation needs work" "samurai isn't a ranged job"

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

Going through PF the last couple days, I see lots of “advertising” like:

“4k dps = instakick”
“no clowns please”
“2 fails = kick”
“know what to do there will be no talk or stay out”
“I’m doing this for 2 days please no more failures”

Generally stuff I would typically expect to see in WoW, also noticed a harshening of tone in duties like alliance raids.

It’s sad that the same thing has arrived here now.

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Were you doing Extremes back in Heavensward? Pretty much every Zurvan Ex PF registry was "Skip Soar or Disband". PF back then was so toxic I only ever made my own parties.

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Originally Posted by Kandraxx

“4k dps = instakick”
“no clowns please”
“2 fails = kick”
“know what to do there will be no talk or stay out”
“I’m doing this for 2 days please no more failures”

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Going to tell you what those post mean.
First one is a person begging to get reported.
Second one is a clown and does not wish to share the clown gear.
Third one will fail at least 2 times within the 10 first seconds.
Forth one have themselves no idea how the fight work.
Fifth and last one is themselves the reason every party they have been in the last 2 days have wiped, they themselves do not understand that and will be rude after each wipe blaming it on everyone else even though they are the one to blame.

I do see a lot of people say "gg" at the end of content now and I assume that's a WoW person thing because I never saw it much until last year.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I do see a lot of people say "gg" at the end of content now and I assume that's a WoW person thing because I never saw it much until last year.

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I noticed that too, I dont remember it ever be a thing. And worst still, they say GG even if it was beyond awful of a run.

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Originally Posted by Escalon

I noticed that too, I dont remember it ever be a thing. And worst still, they say GG even if it was beyond awful of a run.

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I've always said gg, ever since I started back in HW.

It's just a common way to say goodbye after a multiplayer session.

"Like a virtual fist bump, “good game” (or “GG”) has been a favorite parting word since the dawn of online competitive gaming. For almost three decades, typing those letters into the game chat has become an almost compulsory act of digital sportsmanship." - Inverse.com

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Originally Posted by Maxilor

I've always said gg, ever since I started back in HW.

It's just a common way to say goodbye after a multiplayer session.

"Like a virtual fist bump, “good game” (or “GG”) has been a favorite parting word since the dawn of online competitive gaming. For almost three decades, typing those letters into the game chat has become an almost compulsory act of digital sportsmanship." - Inverse.com

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I mean I remember actually lining up after a base ball game and shaking the opposing teams hands one by one and saying good game. I guess base ball was developed by WoW players

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Originally Posted by IdowhatIwant

I mean I remember actually lining up after a base ball game and shaking the opposing teams hands one by one and saying good game. I guess base ball was developed by WoW players

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Wait a minute...I remember actually lining up after a game of basketball and doing the same thing. Are you telling me these WoW players are the same people who made basketball? That just can't be true!

At this point, 'wow player' means anyone who's been playing MMO's for over 3 years and/or had the audacity to ever play an MMO that wasnt XIV. So if you played Tera Online? You're a wow player and you're coming here and making things awful with your wow habits, including saying gg. TRUE xiv players only say "o/" and then stay silent as to not offend anyone and lose their account.

Played Bless? Wildstar? New World? Blade and Soul? Maplestory? Wow players, get out. You're all toxic. Stop having standards. I'm entitled to you, don't tell me I'm not. -doesn't this kinda sound like the world of dating?? Dare I say, incel rhetoric? We can acknowledge it's creepy and gross when it comes to that, but all the sudden it's amnesia when it comes to online spaces. All the sudden yes, people do actually have the right to force themselves with you otherwise you're actually the bad person. That's a little funny isnt it. Telling me no should be punishable-yes I do believe I've heard that in other spaces before..

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Originally Posted by Escalon

I noticed that too, I dont remember it ever be a thing. And worst still, they say GG even if it was beyond awful of a run.

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Good lord, are we now getting upset over people doing a throwaway "take care" gesture?

Gamers: *breathe*
FFXIV players: ON GOD?

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I do see a lot of people say "gg" at the end of content now and I assume that's a WoW person thing because I never saw it much until last year.

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I don't know about other genres, but that's been a customary way to end matches in fighting games since online play has been a thing. I somehow doubt it migrated there from WoW.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Good lord, are we now getting upset over people doing a throwaway "take care" gesture?

Gamers: *breathe*
FFXIV players: ON GOD?

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Take your head out of your arse please, I just stated that > I < not remembering it being a thing, and that I never seen it on the servers I played on. And it became a thing recently for me. and GG literally means GOOD GAME, Yeah, sorry, I dont call something a GG where I have to put super human effort to keep the rest of the party alive over the course of the whole Dungeon/Raid/Alliance raid.

Either shut up and dont say anything at the end of a dungeon and just leave, or at the very least write something more than 2 letters that are AS YOU SAY : THROW AWAY gesture, you know, because actually typing : TAKE CARE takes soooooooo much effort right ?

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Originally Posted by Escalon

snip

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Oh, on god?

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Originally Posted by Rhais

I don't know about other genres, but that's been a customary way to end matches in fighting games since online play has been a thing. I somehow doubt it migrated there from WoW.

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Well the timing of it becoming more of a thing here lines up roughly with the WoW exodus.

Do people in WoW always start every dungeon/raid/whatever with "o/"? I assumed that was a mostly Final Fantasy/japanese thing but I haven't played WoW in over a decade so I don't know.

FFXI and WoW had different terminology, and XIV took a lot of terms from XI. For example hate/threat/enmity/aggro either meaning different things or not being said at all in the other game. It would make total sense for greetings and farewells and other things people say to be different too. And things can be taken from one game and become a thing in another, like we used to call damage dealers "DDs" but now we mostly all say "DPS".

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Oh, on god?

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Is this some new gen Z slang meme?

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Originally Posted by Escalon

Take your head out of your arse please, I just stated that > I < not remembering it being a thing, and that I never seen it on the servers I played on. And it became a thing recently for me. and GG literally means GOOD GAME, Yeah, sorry, I dont call something a GG where I have to put super human effort to keep the rest of the party alive over the course of the whole Dungeon/Raid/Alliance raid.

Either shut up and dont say anything at the end of a dungeon and just leave, or at the very least write something more than 2 letters that are AS YOU SAY : THROW AWAY gesture, you know, because actually typing : TAKE CARE takes soooooooo much effort right ?

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ive been using gg or o/ since arr because i play on controller and that makes typing harder
are you one of those people that get angry at people who say "have a nice day" irl because you dont like being told what to do? or are you only this insufferable online at strangers?

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Originally Posted by Escalon

Take your head out of your arse please, I just stated that > I < not remembering it being a thing, and that I never seen it on the servers I played on. And it became a thing recently for me. and GG literally means GOOD GAME, Yeah, sorry, I dont call something a GG where I have to put super human effort to keep the rest of the party alive over the course of the whole Dungeon/Raid/Alliance raid.

Either shut up and dont say anything at the end of a dungeon and just leave, or at the very least write something more than 2 letters that are AS YOU SAY : THROW AWAY gesture, you know, because actually typing : TAKE CARE takes soooooooo much effort right ?

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jesus christ

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Originally Posted by Escalon

Take your head out of your arse please, I just stated that > I < not remembering it being a thing, and that I never seen it on the servers I played on. And it became a thing recently for me. and GG literally means GOOD GAME, Yeah, sorry, I dont call something a GG where I have to put super human effort to keep the rest of the party alive over the course of the whole Dungeon/Raid/Alliance raid.

Either shut up and dont say anything at the end of a dungeon and just leave, or at the very least write something more than 2 letters that are AS YOU SAY : THROW AWAY gesture, you know, because actually typing : TAKE CARE takes soooooooo much effort right ?

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Well if you pop off like that, it gives me the impression you are the reason for the run being so painful.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

I do see a lot of people say "gg" at the end of content now and I assume that's a WoW person thing because I never saw it much until last year.

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GG has been a gamer thing since online games were a thing.

It literally is short for "Good game".

This doesn't mean it has to be a excellent example of gaming prowess or a really excellent experience, it simply translates (over decades of gaming culture) to mean " Thank you for playing a game with me".

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Originally Posted by Escalon

Take your head out of your arse please, I just stated that > I < not remembering it being a thing, and that I never seen it on the servers I played on. And it became a thing recently for me. and GG literally means GOOD GAME, Yeah, sorry, I dont call something a GG where I have to put super human effort to keep the rest of the party alive over the course of the whole Dungeon/Raid/Alliance raid.

Either shut up and dont say anything at the end of a dungeon and just leave, or at the very least write something more than 2 letters that are AS YOU SAY : THROW AWAY gesture, you know, because actually typing : TAKE CARE takes soooooooo much effort right ?

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holy Hydaelyn..

Or you know.. you could just ignore it which takes even less effort and click that exit portal.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

GG has been a gamer thing since online games were a thing.

It literally is short for "Good game".

This doesn't mean it has to be a excellent example of gaming prowess or a really excellent experience, it simply translates (over decades of gaming culture) to mean " Thank you for playing a game with me".

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Yes, I know all that. I didn't say "gg is a WoW thing", I was suggesting that the recent rise of people saying it here relates to WoW people coming to FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Yes, I know all that. I didn't say "gg is a WoW thing", I was suggesting that the recent rise of people saying it here relates to WoW people coming to FFXIV.

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I would say it's more that lots of people have started playing this game and the gamer community is pretty used to using GG after matches.

I wouldn't specifically relate it to WoW since it neither originated nor popularized there. I.E. I don't think this is a "because wow players" thing.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Yes, I know all that. I didn't say "gg is a WoW thing", I was suggesting that the recent rise of people saying it here relates to WoW people coming to FFXIV.

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Folks have been saying gg for years before the WoW exodus though. I don't think there's *any* relation at all.

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Originally Posted by Genbe197

Also people don't join to get hard carried.

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HAHAHAHA!! this community gets HARD carried the majority of the time even in basic expert dungeons